Hot Tub Forum
General => Beating a dead horse => Topic started by: drewstar on July 26, 2005, 01:18:16 pm
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I agree, there isn't too many consumers chiming in on these spas. That in of itself seems unselttleing to me. What do you like about this spa?
Are you flying to Colorodo specifically to wet test this tub?
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Now I'm confused? You would spend extra money to fly up to Denver from Phoenix to potentially purchase a very high dollar spa from someone that badmouths the entire industry yet you don't like how the industry badmouths??? ???
To my knowledge, every major brand is represented in Phoenix...Stick with a local dealer with local support that you can look in the eye on a day to day basis and form a customer service relationship!
I don't care whether the spas are everything he says they are or not...There is no way for him to take care of you like a local dealer!
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Wow! Send an E-Mail to this gentleman paul.comfort@intertek.com <paul.comfort@intertek.com> and ask him if these spas are ETL listed.Further more make sure you are allowed to install a non UL or ETL listed in your area, as in Colorado and many states it is illegal to install a non UL listed or ETL listed spa, further more you may want to look at the company that builds the **** Spas (Phoenix Spas) as they offer the product before it is rebranded at a fraction of the cost. In reality you may want to actually check out the major brands as there is a reason they havent adopted the theiries of ****spas. ;)
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The guy who sells those spas over the net has a reputation in the industry as a hot head that buys a Phoenix spa and rebrands it as his own. He's had customers start web sites to chronicle how he does not provide service when things go wrong (the check is already cashed at that point). I can show you how he's been sued by his bank for nonpayment so i certainly wouldn't trust him with my $$. He's changed his name at some point and never explained that one so hat's a red flag for me. His website is full of half-truths, exaggerations and flat out lies. He's been banned by most every spa forum he's ever been on for his belligerent behavior and for deceit by posting as a spa salesman of another company at the same time so he can have a contrived conversation to try to make himself appear superior (he has a messiah complex). The list goes on and on and on. The few people who do end up buying from him are the conspiracy theorists who believe he has the truth and the industry is trying to keep him down (THE MAN that is). The simple reality is he takes a so-so spa brand (Phoenix spas) and has them build a spa for him with his label and he then jacks up the price considerably (I'm guessing 20% more than a comparable Phoenix spa) yet you get no local service when things go wrong (I know, he says he’ll find someone in the yellow pages in your area, good luck on that one). I would avoid him like the plague that he is.
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In Phoenix you have the best opportunity to shop all major brands right there on Bell road.Go to Paddock at Arrowhead and talk to Dawn, or go to Family time and talk only to Mark Sr. or got to Four seasons and talk only to Trevor,or Acrylic Spas and talk to Ramsey or Roger. Those are the people who know their product and have integrety in your area.The real pro on that road recently moved to Colorado,but one of these people will have the right tub for you.I would not buy any where else if I were in your shoes.
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Bodyaches; Run in the opposite direction before your wallet aches!
There's countless information on the spa deceptionist for poor customer service. If you want a Phoenix spa, buy one. Don't pay the extra $3000 to have a relabled, unsafe, overpriced one with no ETL listing from this scam artist.
...and I'm holding back! ;D
Steve
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Buy a Phoenix spa instead. At least you'd be getting local dealer support, and probably save a few thousand to boot. You can always punch your own holes in the cabinet and install a fan to void the ETL/UL listing yourself, instead of paying for a pre voided one.
Brewman
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Forgive me as I am skeptical if you are genuinely serous about buying the spa you are considering .....since there is no real cost savings to you and since you are buying from someone who will not be able , simply by logistics be able to provide any real service and since the spas are neither UL or ETL approved why would you consider it. As mentioned you are looking at a spa that is made by a manufacture that most would consider middle of the road at best and than shipped off where someone tinkers with it and voids all safety certs that it originally had ..... why not stick with a company that actually builds and warranties their spas .....since the Haven name is what you are considering and it is actually a Phoenix spa...what happens if Haven goes out of business will Phoenix honor the warranty ....I do not think so ..... I have always wondered why the gentleman who is Haven spas with all of his self proclaimed superiority , if there were real validity to it a larger company would buy his innovations , hire him and make the best spa on the market but since that has not happened I wonder where is the substance to all of his talk ....Think Micro soft if someone does it better they buy them to gain the edge ....it would happened with spas as well if there was real substance to his claims.
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He is the Flim Flam Man, never forget that.
Terminator
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Forgive me as I am skeptical if you are genuinely serous about buying the spa you are considering .
Bodyaches, From prior experience I am suspicious of anyone coming here asking about that spa. It is me that has gone through and changed the title of this thread and removed mention of the name. We don't even want to accidently promote that man's product.
I did verify your in Pheonix, but there is a history of that guy posing as a consumer on other forums. He is banned from most every hot tub forum he doesn't run. Other times he sends people here to see what we have to say about him so he can prove his wacko theories about the entire industry being against him. (Your message doesn't have many of the tell tales clues that this is the case, but he might be getting smart) In the interest of not promoting him, I am removing mention of the name from all messages and the title. Don't like the censorship? There's the door :) But ifyou want to hang around one of the best hot tub forms, please do. Talk about tubs, your mother's hysterectomy, or Diamond backs, but not HIM or his spas.
Oh, I see I was logged in as forum admin again as I was editing. My main user name is wmccall if you want to yell at me in private. I am a volunteer moderator here.
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Ok, I'm back as myself ;D I can't speak to the quality of those spas. But having dealt with the owner I can say if they were the best spas in the world and they were half the cost of any other spa, I still wouldn't buy one. I wish I would have saved the email messages he sent me, though it would be illegal for me to post them. I believe, in my non-professional opinion, he is an unbalanced loon.
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Hopefully Bodyaches is not the "Flim flam" man in disguise, or one of his flying monkeys doing his bidding, and this is a legitimate post. I would very much like to see an intellegent dicussion on these tubs from a consumer's viewpoint, esp from someone who is going up to wet test the tub, and talk to this man and report first hand what's what.
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Forgive me as I am skeptical if you are genuinely serous about buying the spa you are considering .....since there is no real cost savings to you and since you are buying from someone who will not be able , simply by logistics be able to provide any real service and since the spas are neither UL or ETL approved why would you consider it. As mentioned you are looking at a spa that is made by a manufacture that most would consider middle of the road at best and than shipped off where someone tinkers with it and voids all safety certs that it originally had ..... why not stick with a company that actually builds and warranties their spas .....since the Haven name is what you are considering and it is actually a Phoenix spa...what happens if Haven goes out of business will Phoenix honor the warranty ....I do not think so ..... I have always wondered why the gentleman who is Haven spas with all of his self proclaimed superiority , if there were real validity to it a larger company would buy his innovations , hire him and make the best spa on the market but since that has not happened I wonder where is the substance to all of his talk ....Think Micro soft if someone does it better they buy them to gain the edge ....it would happened with spas as well if there was real substance to his claims.
Mendo, You make a very good point here. Nicely worded. My wife and I were talking about the original post of this thread. The idea of flying out of state to wet test a hot tub sounds like a gigantic waste of time to both of us. Even if you were to disregard all the negativity surrounding *****/JA, does he truly manufacturer such a superior product that anybody would spend the money to fly to CO to check it out?When it comes time for a warranty repair, do you think JA would be quick to jump on a plane to fix your hot tub?
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Hopefully Bodyaches is not the "Flim flam" man in disguise, or one of his flying monkeys doing his bidding, and this is a legitimate post. I would very much like to see an intellegent dicussion on these tubs from a consumer's viewpoint, esp from someone who is going up to wet test the tub, and talk to this man and report first hand what's what.
My sentiments exactly Drewstar. That is the main reason the thread exists as it does now. My only concern at this point is not accidently directing any extra business his way.
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My sentiments exactly Drewstar. That is the main reason the thread exists as it does now. My only concern at this point is not accidently directing any extra business his way.
if what people say about him is true, thenI have no doubt that if it is discussed in this fourm, no business will be directed his way.
I am curious on what model tub you were looking at, the price, any lititerture you received, what claims were made about the tub, did you get a copy of the warrentey etc? All that info would be fair game to disect.
And oh, do they throw in a free steroe or any cool rubber ducks?
Free rubber ducks are the hallmark of a good dealer.
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It looks like he has found a new buddy. Saw this on his board.
My extensive research came down to two Companies. Thermospa and the *****. Why would anyone buy a full foam insulated spa? Why would anyone with an IQ over a l00 buy a Hot Springs Spa.
and his reply We service the Thermo Spas here in Colorado, and I can tell you they are well made, but everything in a **** spa is stronger and better made with the highest end components.
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I don't think there is even a Phoenix Spa dealer in phoenix since the company I worked for dropped them because they would not ship parts but only every six weeks.
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When does this thread get deleted?
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Any time he gets the point and is moving on to shopping local dealers.
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Model is SCF...73 jets, 2 ea 6.5 motors, cover.
$11725. includes 60" step, Butler, ship, installing, GFCI disconnect, ozone gen sys, thermo blanket,care supplies, extra filter.
Those are the specs fot the spa but a wise purchase includes WHO it is you're dealing with. Considerations such as reputations of the dealer & manufacturer (will they honor their committment, in his case a simple NO has been the answer), quality of the product, local service, etc. In these areas he gets a grade of F-. If he told me it was nighttime I would have to look outside to be sure and even then I'd be worried that an eclipse was responsible for the darkness.
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Model is SCF...73 jets, 2 ea 6.5 motors, cover.
$11725. includes 60" step, Butler, ship, installing, GFCI disconnect, ozone gen sys, thermo blanket,care supplies, extra filter.
Thats about it.
SemperFi Dick
::)
You would be paying an exhorbinant amount of money for a generic spa you could buy for about $4000 in any major city in North America, including Phoenix.
Please, listen to that inner voice telling you that you know better than to fall for these shenanigans.
Terminator
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Model is SCF...73 jets, 2 ea 6.5 motors, cover.
$11725. includes 60" step, Butler, ship, installing, GFCI disconnect, ozone gen sys, thermo blanket,care supplies, extra filter.
Thats about it.
SemperFi Dick
73 jets!!! I need to wet test one of those. Any ideas if there are any Super Custom Fallsburg's in the Philadelphia area?
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73 jets!!! I need to wet test one of those. Any ideas if there are any Super Custom Fallsburg's in the Philadelphia area?
I think Philly people are too skeptical to fall for his ruse!
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Probery will fly up from Phoenix to do a wet test.
Wow! 2 pages of replies in less than half a day. I think it is great that so many of you responded to help save this poor schmuck the expense of flying off to do a wet test, but... in order to save the rest of us reading time, how about if we all agree that if someone was actually stupid enough to fly somewhere (or drive several hundred miles as another "shopper" claimed) to wet test a spa -- we just let them! 8)
I suspect that you all gave "Bodyaches" just what he was hoping for when he posted. I know it its hard not to take the bait, but I think it would be best if these types of posts were allowed to drop off the front page due to lack of response.
Tired eyes,
Cal
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I know it its hard not to take the bait, but I think it would be best if these types of posts were allowed to drop off the front page due to lack of response.
best statement yet in this thread
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You're exactly right. Anyone silly enough to do that wouldn't listen to reason anyway.
Terminator
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how about if we all agree that if someone was actually stupid enough to fly somewhere (or drive several hundred miles as another "shopper" claimed) to wet test a spa -- we just let them! 8)
He came here before making the mistake so I think we need to assume he's open to getting a 3rd party opinion. If he still wants to look into that option then by all means we shouldn't bother trying to convince him otherwise as all we can do is provide him the truth that he can't get on that website. Past that it's buyer beware.
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More like "Buyer, be afraid. Be very afraid".
Brewman
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Talk about tubs, your mother's hysterectomy, or Diamond backs, but not HIM or his spas.
Bodyaches' mom had a hyterectomy? ???
;)
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I see we've been set up by someone who drank the cool-aide.
You're right buddy, we're all wrong and he is the only one telling the truth. DARN...you caught us. We've all been running this scam here for years knowing full well that Jim is the spa king and we're so darn afraid of him taking over our industry.
Well boys and girls...it's time to close up this shop and find ourselves a whole new line of work. We've been made by bodyaches and the gig's up!
The truth is achey, you should run right out and buy one of those rebranded Phoenix spas right now. Forget about what we said. We were kidding with ya... It was a joke. They are the BEST SPAS EVER MADE.
Talk to you later Jim....er bodyaches... er Dick ::)
(I'm a true believer that there's much to be said about a name! ;D )
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...I think we need to assume he's open to getting a 3rd party opinion.
Still think so?? :P
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Is it because he may be telling the truth. I know truth hurts in many industries. Tale autos forinstance. I have spoken to several customers around the country and in Phoenix they seem to love his spas...I dont get it.
Dick
SemperFi
Talk to him, read his messages on his own forum. Napolean and Don Quixote come to mind.
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Still think so?? :P
I would like to be recognized for giving it a chance. I get yelled at for pulling the trigger too quick, or too slow.
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Is it because he may be telling the truth. I know truth hurts in many industries. Tale autos forinstance. I have spoken to several customers around the country and in Phoenix they seem to love his spas...I dont get it.
Dick
SemperFi
Sure the truth hurts. It hurts "Dr. Evil" most of all. MOST consumers, when they get information away from his sales trap of a web site, see thru him, and when they know the "Truth" stay away.
At best he snags the occasional conspiracy theorist.
They thrive on his sort of bull.
The "Truth" is that his products are mediocre at best, overpriced, offer no local support, and and at worst are unlisted by any independent testing agency. The ONLY way he can snag customers is by convincing them that everything out there is crap, but his.
Some people buy into his conspiracy theory, and it snags him the occasional sale.
Brewman
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Is it because he may be telling the truth. I know truth hurts in many industries. Tale autos forinstance. I have spoken to several customers around the country and in Phoenix they seem to love his spas...I dont get it.
Dick
SemperFi
Dick, On the first page of this thread I asked if JA would be willing to fly to where you live in order to perform warranty work. This wasn't intended to be a sarcastic remark. I really would like to know if he would take a flight, possibly have to rent a car, buy meals, hotel/motel, etc. in order to warranty your hot tub. Could you please call him and ask him if he would go through this for you? I am very curious about this.
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When I fist was looking for a new spa, I've vistied this dealer's site and read what he has to say. At first blush, for someone new to buying a spa, the presentation is interesting. However on closer examination, I became a bit susupiscious, mostly because of the negative comments on other sites about him. I never went as far as to get pricing, warrenty info or get an in-depth sales presentation.
I will say that I am very interested in hearing intelligent, discussions on what the short commings of the spa are, as well as more info on what makes his tub so "exclusive".
Having a bunch of folks chime in and just mock him doesn't help a new shopper very much.
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$11,000 for a spa you cant see or touch from a guy who lives across the country is enough info to keep me away. You can pretty much get the top of the line of any major manufacturer from a local dealer with major manufacturer backing for $11,000 and be able to see it and wet test it.
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Almost $12000 for a tub? This is the same shell that sells under a different name for half that? Even if this majical spa did everything it claimed, there's no way it would be worth that. (unless it comes fillled with hookers, then well yea, cool tub).
Shop around before you spend $12000 on ANY tub.
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Is it because he may be telling the truth. I know truth hurts in many industries.
Dick
SemperFi
Dick,
No, actually its because he's a habitual liar and his actions hurt the industry. Now that you know how we feel take it and do with it what you like but please don't waste our time any further. You'll either heed the obvious warnings or you'll drink the kool-aid and quite possibly will be kicking yourself in the future for not listening to those who know who he really is. A marine is "always faithful" to the corps which he knows to be true but their is no truth to what that man has to offer.
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I would hope that even JA wouldn't stoop so low as to use the armed forces signature to gain sympathetic replies on this or any other board. >:(
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Dick, On the first page of this thread I asked if JA would be willing to fly to where you live in order to perform warranty work. This wasn't intended to be a sarcastic remark. I really would like to know if he would take a flight, possibly have to rent a car, buy meals, hotel/motel, etc. in order to warranty your hot tub. Could you please call him and ask him if he would go through this for you? I am very curious about this.
More likely he'll offer to send you a part to install yourself. Failing that, perhaps it's the yellow pages for the least expensive handyman he can find to send out.
Once upon a time he claimed to have a huge network of spa repair techs standing by to cover the whole USA, but when I asked him who'd serve my area, it was told to mind my own business. Funny, but my spa dealer isn't ashamed to name their repair people.
Brewman
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You'll either heed the obvious warnings or you'll drink the kool-aid and quite possibly will be kicking yourself in the future for not listening
Until Mr Bodyaches is proven otherwise, he is a potential customer asking questions. But given the history involved its natural for people to be suspicious of people who come in here this way. As far as history, I've only been around 2 years and I'm amazed at what I have seen. In my time as moderator I've developed a feel for JA's modis operandi. (I had to look that up to impress you guys) I've called him on it so I suspect he will be modifying that "MO" so we don't recognize him as easily.
Rest assured people I'm keeping an eye on this to see if we are being "had". But for now its been a pleasant diversion. And to Mr Bodyaches, you may be insulted to have your intregrity questionsed, and rightfully so. But given JA's history, it can't be avoided. I hope you will get passed that and keep us informed no matter what you do.
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Yet another example of how JA is his own worst enemy.
His habbit of posting under numerous aliases has created an environment that make it impossible to know if the originator of this thread is legitimate, or just another alias.
Bodyaches- If you are still following this thread, please enlighten me as to why you think many of the spas you looked are are crap, and what these secrets are that the spa dealers are keeping from us. You refused to answer these questions in the PM you sent me. You made some pretty general accusations, how about specifics to back them up?
Brewman
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Bodyaches- If you are still following this thread, please enlighten me as to why you think many of the spas you looked are are crap, and what these secrets are that the spa dealers are keeping from us. You refused to answer these questions in the PM you sent me. You made some pretty general accusations, how about specifics to back them up?
Brewman
Similar PM to me as well. Starting to smell a little more Flim Flammish.
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he even PM'd me. What the heck is THAT about? Still wondering who he is?
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he even PM'd me. What the heck is THAT about? Still wondering who he is?
Hmm, I didn't get any. PMs :'( I did verify he is getting on the internet in Pheonix. That at first set off alarm bells to me thinking it was a Pheonix Spas person who has a stake in "that spa" But then I realized I don't even know if Pheonix spas is located in Phoenix ;D
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He also PM'd me to inform me that he flys for free on airlines and military planes, so we weren't saving him any money by trying to steer him away.
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But then I realized I don't even know if Pheonix spas is located in Phoenix ;D
Phoenix spas are built in an old dilapidated barn in Anderson, CA not in Arizona. If you go to their website you'll see a map that shows where they have dealers. They are VERY much a regional small player mostly in CA, Oregon and Neveda. Only 1 dealer in Arizona but not at all near the Phoenix area (ironic). No dealers in states such as Tx, Fl, NY, Mich, Ill, where you might expect a few spa sales. They do ironically have 1 dealer in Colorado which is in the Denver area so anyone crazy enough to visit JA and see his $$ marked up rebranded spas can then go over and see the same spa at the Phoenix dealer for less.
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You know what dick? buy that spa,it is the best in the world and noone can change that in your mind just don't bother coming here asking for advice.I gave you the best companies to buy from, even gave you the owners names of those customers so you could get a deal and not pay commissions,and you still wonder about this tub/ BUY IT!GOOD LUCK!
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Now I feel left out that he didn't PM me? :-/ :'(
<and I'm so unbiased when it comes to JA our lil puddin head> ;)
Steve
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Dick,
No, actually its because he's a habitual liar and his actions hurt the industry. Now that you know how we feel take it and do with it what you like but please don't waste our time any further. You'll either heed the obvious warnings or you'll drink the kool-aid and quite possibly will be kicking yourself in the future for not listening to those who know who he really is. A marine is "always faithful" to the corps which he knows to be true but their is
no truth to what that man has to offer.
Nice. Real nice.
You know both Dick and I asked what the specifics about why the **** tub is inferior. Christ. I've yet to read one post where someone who knows what they are talking about intellgiently discuss feature A to Feature B and discet the misconceptions and talk about the product.
It's not just you Spatech, it's others too.
But if you read some of these response, some of you sound just as bad as far as "slamming the competetion than others".
Anyone have info on the tub itself and how it compares to other tubs?
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Now I feel left out that he didn't PM me? :-/ :'(
<and I'm so unbiased when it comes to JA our lil puddin head> ;)
Steve
I got PM'd. I guess he only messaged those who he felt were knowledgeable. ;)
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I got PM'd. I guess he only messaged those who he felt were knowledgeable. ;)
:o
Don't make me come over there... :P
BTW...I think Drewstar and JA are one in the same. They both spell intellgiently the same way! :D
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:o
Don't make me come over there... :P
BTW...I think Drewstar and JA are one in the same. They both spell intellgiently the same way! :D
Not the wrong spelling, it just has a little ebonic flare. ;D
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BTW...I think Drewstar and JA are one in the same. They both spell intellgiently the same way! :D
Thanks Steve :P That's worse than the time someone accused me of being an Aritc Spa salesman.
Some off you need to get your tinfoil hat resized. IT's starting to constrict the flow of blood to your brain.
I mentioned this in a post a few days ago, but then it was about Thermospas. Everyone knocks them but when you ask why, there is very little Technical discusion, just flaming. I'd think our comunity here would be better served if we had H*** spa customers here as well as Thermospa customers, if not for anything else but to serve as a warning to others and to get thier veiwpoints.
I've gone through Flimflams site and it's not specific on the technoligy he uses and exactly what and why his spas are better. I simpley asked can anyone speak from a point of knoweldge? Can someone educate us, rather than sink to Flimflam man's level?
Buller? Buller? Buller?
What is differnt about the H* spa?
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What is differnt about the H* spa?
The biggest difference is the person who sells them. He provides little to no service which has been a problem (sure he gives you a piece of paper that says it has a warranty but good luck on that one). If you want info on what its like to be one of his customers you can PM me as I still have all the files from the website a few of his customers had going for a while to chronicle how poorly he treated them. Furthermore, his spas are not ETL or UL rated. On top of that he sells a Phoenix clone for about 20% more than the Phoenix version. Its the old Marketing strategy that if I say its super duper and charge up the ying-yang for it some people will believe that its the greatest when its just a Phoenix spa with a nice new bow on it.
If not for the lack of service, non ETL listing and the outlandish prices he gets for a mid-level spa brand there is nothing wrong with his spas other than the fact you're supporting The Spa Deceptionist.
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Thanks. thats a statment a reader can use.
Does anyone know about the "specail" insualtion method? What is it? Spray paint? A thermal blanket? Also, i get the impression that there are venting fans in the cabinet?
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Nice. Real nice.
You know both Dick and I asked what the specifics about why the **** tub is inferior. Christ. I've yet to read one post where someone who knows what they are talking about intellgiently discuss feature A to Feature B and discet the misconceptions and talk about the product.
It's not just you Spatech, it's others too.
But if you read some of these response, some of you sound just as bad as far as "slamming the competetion than others".
Anyone have info on the tub itself and how it compares to other tubs?
Its not that the tubs are inferior ....its that they are simply not so superior as he touts them and certainly no deal at close to 12 grand with no local service .... Phoenix spas are known as a small manufacture who makes a middle of the road product ....when priced accordingly they are OK if they work for you
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What is differnt about the H* spa?
I think the biggest criticism I have heard is that he takes a Pheonix hot tub and then makes (what he feels to be) improvements on the design. There are a few problems with this ( my opinion only):
1. This voids the ETL listing of the hot tub.
2. The hand-made modifications are not quality controlled.
3. The original spa manufacturer won't service the tub because of the modifications.
4. It is hard to get the guy to service the tub because he is one guy.
These problems have led to customers creating web sites detailing very bad warranty and construction-quality experiences with this type of tub.
Additionally, the person's character is often brought into question because (my opinion only):
1. He heavily moderates his own boards to weed out all but strawman arguments.
2. He (potentially illegally) lists his spas as ETL listed.
3. He has had financial problems in the past.
4. His posts regarding electrical or engineering standards are often incorrect and/or filled with pseudo-science.
5. The markup of his spas ($12k??) over what he pays for them ($5k??)does not seem to be in line with amount of effort/expense he puts into updating the spas (he charges $7k for tinfoil)
Since he is the person overseeing the re-engineering of the tub and servicing the tub questions of his character, knowledge, and emotional stability are part of the equation, just as dealer selection is part of the equation.
As to the specific modifications he makes to the spa, I'm sure others can get into the specifics. It's been a while since I visited his site and all I remember is that he wraps something around the inside of the tub to reflect heat back.
-Ed
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what I find so entertaining each time one of these threads starts is how totally and completely this guy controls you guys (when I say "you guys" I mean the regulars that will post and post and post again saying the same thing over and over and over again) I can somewhat understand dealers getting involved, but I see consumers getting caught up in the aguements as well. ANY post that mentions ***** spas goes to 5 pages or more in just a day or 2. Why do you let him do this to you? Think of it as the 180 of "build it and they will come" Drop and and it will die......
Think about it this way. All but the totally uninitiated know who/what ***** spas are, even if the actual name is camoflaged, but I'll bet you a nickel his hit-o-meter gets pegged based on all the attention "you guys" give him here
tx out
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what I find so entertaining each time one of these threads starts is how totally and completely this guy controls you guys (when I say "you guys" I mean the regulars that will post and post and post again saying the same thing over and over and over again) I can somewhat understand dealers getting involved, but I see consumers getting caught up in the aguements as well. ANY post that mentions ***** spas goes to 5 pages or more in just a day or 2. Why do you let him do this to you? Think of it as the 180 of "build it and they will come" Drop and and it will die......
tx out
How else are the regulars going to get their post counts up?
Do you mean to suggest this spa manufacturer is good for something else?? :o
-Ed
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5 pages...
This should go to 10 easily.
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Let me see if I can summarize this for you and elaborate on spatechs knowledge on the subject...
There is a long standing history of events going back years that shows that Jim is unstable as a human being. Other than the fact that his spas are greatly overpriced, not ETL listed and there is no service associated with that purchase, they not too bad. :-/
Other than the fact that his puffery of overstating everything and the fact that he has been caught in a number of lies, has been banned from every spa forum but his own, poses as a shopper to promote his spas with various aliases, has a criminal past including a name change to shed his history of activity, verbally abuses anyone not agreeing with him and is unable to hold an adult conversation, he's a pretty OK guy!
In other words, it's not entirely the spa itself though one of the worst values in our industry, it's more to do with the lunatic behind them. Personally, I'm not willing to drop $10 G's on something I can't wet test (unless in an existing customers back yard whom I have never met) or make such a long term purchase from someone who can't look after me post sale. After he makes all these “alterations” on the spa and you have a warranty issue, if he’s out of business next week, do you think Phoenix is going to warranty it?
If these things don't matter, then I say buy one. The best we can do as experienced people in this industry is try to assist people in making a smart buying decision. Regardless of the quality of product, good value includes many other factors and none of which are present on the line of spas you are referring to.
Steve
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5 pages...
This should go to 10 easily.
Comon Chris, we all know you want it to go ten to beat the 7 pager you started that was locked up by bill. ;D
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At least it didn't get deleted...
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Think about it this way. All but the totally uninitiated know who/what ***** spas are, even if the actual name is camoflaged, but I'll bet you a nickel his hit-o-meter gets pegged based on all the attention "you guys" give him here
tx out
I updated my last post
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"After he makes all these “alterations"
That's what I'm trying to understand. What are these alterations?
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"After he makes all these “alterations"
That's what I'm trying to understand. What are these alterations?
Instead of us doing your homework for you, I suggest reading his BS and coming back with specific questions.
Steve
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"After he makes all these “alterations"
That's what I'm trying to understand. What are these alterations?
A nip here, a tuck there, oops there goes my ETL. Takes the mold, customizes jet placement, uses different pumps, controllers, cabinet, insulation theories, all in an un-controlled environment. :o
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ping on the old hit-o-meter
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Instead of us doing your homework for you, I suggest reading his BS and coming back with specific questions.
Steve
Oh. I was under the impression that some of you here were experts.
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I was PM'ed twice....That alone sounds a lot like JA.
Dick,
Regardless of what you think of all the dealers making statements about JA you should have some serious doubts about why so many are giving you warnings when the don't seem to do that with the 200 plus other manufactures.
None of us are paid to give advice nor opinions so if this free service does not coincide with your purchase plans you are out nothing...Buy what you want and justify it how you will, you’re the only one that has anything to lose.
Again I caution anyone that has the sheer plethora of brand choices locally that you do to buy local from a dealer that can take care of you from a nearby location.
The reason we all question the agenda of your posts is that it just doesn't make sense to go so far to pay more money even if the spa where slightly better (and in my FREE opinion, It's not!)
For everyone else remember that JA was in California last week and probably went back through Phoenix.
As far as answering you in a PM….I personally am quite comfortable sharing my opinion on him, his spas and his company on an open forum!
No one here has anything to gain by attacking him or swaying you another direction…Many of us however have been caught up in his trickery and scams trying to just help others so when you post responses that are questionable we are going to question them.
Good luck on your venture, I hope you get the spa you desire but more importantly I hope you have a good experience with that spa.
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Oh. I was under the impression that some of you here were experts.
Experts yes, not your personal babysitter. :P
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what I find so entertaining each time one of these threads starts is how totally and completely this guy controls you guys. ...ANY post that mentions ***** spas goes to 5 pages or more in just a day or 2. Why do you let him do this to you? ... I'll bet you a nickel his hit-o-meter gets pegged based on all the attention "you guys" give him here
I agree. Here's a suggestion. How about using PM's to help answer the next "shopper". That way you can share info in case it is a legitimate inquiry, but you don't provide free exposure. A side benefit will be less reading for the rest of us.
Since Bodyaches seems to have checked out of this thread (off in search of "truth", I'm sure) I think I will too. Have fun!
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6 pages. I like it. I stopped reading at page 2.
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Experts yes, not your personal babysitter. :P
That answers my question. Thanks buddy!
Moving along....
As i asked previously, is there someoe who can explain what this D**T insulation is all about? Also from reading his site, I get the impression that the cabinet is fan cooled? is that correct? He states his plubming is all 2" and 2.5" is this differnet than other tubs?
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ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping ping...........
happy yet?
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I agree. Here's a suggestion. How about using PM's to help answer the next "shopper". That way you can share info in case it is a legitimate inquiry, but you don't provide free exposure. A side benefit will be less reading for the rest of us.
Since Bodyaches seems to have checked out of this thread (off in search of "truth", I'm sure) I think I will too. Have fun!
So who's forcing you to read any of this?
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That answers my question. Thanks buddy!
Moving along....
As i asked previously, is there someoe who can explain what this D**T insulation is all about? Also from reading his site, I get the impression that the cabinet is fan cooled? is that correct? He states his plubming is all 2" and 2.5" is this differnet than other tubs?
No its not different .....it is very common .....as for specific details about HIS spas why not go to his site and look for yourself .....the real question seems to be that you want to hear why his are so good or so bad and the answer is there is not much to tell they are a re branded spa that he modifies and sells at a inflated price with no real local service ...... while spas are different and the attention to detail and commitment to service can vary greatly ...the inner workings of a spa are going to be similar one to another in the same way a cars are ...a KIA or Benz will both get you to the airport and both run off a combustion engine but which one do you want to ride in .....
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That answers my question. Thanks buddy!
Moving along....
You are very welcome. I totally agree that it's time to move on. If you are asking someone to validate his claims here, you ain't gonna find it and everything has been said.
Any further questions, I suggest you ask the spa God yourself. where's that damn lock tab? ;D
Steve
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what I find so entertaining each time one of these threads starts is how totally and completely this guy controls you guys (when I say "you guys" I mean the regulars that will post and post and post again saying the same thing over and over and over again) I can somewhat understand dealers getting involved, but I see consumers getting caught up in the aguements as well. ANY post that mentions ***** spas goes to 5 pages or more in just a day or 2. Why do you let him do this to you? Think of it as the 180 of "build it and they will come" Drop and and it will die......
Think about it this way. All but the totally uninitiated know who/what ***** spas are, even if the actual name is camoflaged, but I'll bet you a nickel his hit-o-meter gets pegged based on all the attention "you guys" give him here
tx out
If we "spa professionals" are truly concerned with helping others out on this forum then we have to treat this like any other discussion....
Regardless of whether this is another JA scam or not we have to take it as it is just a confused customer needing advice or else we are as bad as JA himself.
I don't think anyone here touts that thier brand is the only way to go and everything else is crap like he does nor do they specifically attack his product but rather his tactics and ethics.
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You are very welcome. I totally agree that it's time to move on. If you are asking someone to validate his claims here, you ain't gonna find it and everything has been said.
Any further questions, I suggest you ask the spa God yourself. where's that damn lock tab? ;D
Steve
So you flame when I ask if anyone has specific info, and suggest that asking so in this forum is akin to being babysat, and then when I ask a specific question, you blow me off.
WTF?
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Friends, Spatopians, Countryman........... ;D
I know it can be difficult, but remember, even though we have been around here for a very long time, and hashed over this subject till it smells like a long dead rotting horse............. everyday a newbie comes along that knows no history on the subject at hand.
Believe me, I know how quickly it gets so old and boring.
Now what I want to know know is why did I get so TOTALLY slammed by the original poster when I edited out the brand name when s/he posted this question on my board?
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Well. Here's the deal from someone who hasn't been around for awhile....don't delete this thread. Don't edit out the name. That way, when (not if) this comes up again, we can direct to this thread rather than re-hash.
If the concern is giving an uinscroupoulous dealer free pub, then the respsonses in this thread should counter that. No?
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So you flame when I ask if anyone has specific info, and suggest that asking so in this forum is akin to being babysat, and then when I ask a specific question, you blow me off.
WTF?
Don't be so sensitive... ::)
I thought my good friend Mendo (haven't chatted in while bud) covered your questions. I wasn't blowing you off. You’d know if I was… ;)
It has been made very clear from all aspects about the person and company you are referring to. What is your agenda in continuing this charade? IT’S TIME TO MOVE ON...
Steve
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Friends, Spatopians, Countryman........... ;D
I know it can be difficult, but remember, even though we have been around here for a very long time, and hashed over this subject till it smells like a long dead rotting horse............. everyday a newbie comes along that knows no history on the subject at hand.
Believe me, I know how quickly it gets so old and boring.
Now what I want to know know is why did I get so TOTALLY slammed by the original poster when I edited out the brand name when s/he posted this question on my board?
I didn't see it on your board. Can you send the link to the thread?
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My thinking, ane if I get in a bad mood, it becomes law ;) If Mr Bodyaches doesn't come back, we stop (http://mccallw.tripod.com/deadhorse.jpg)
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Do all dealers back up the product they sell if they go out of business and do they notify the manufactuer that they have a customer sitting at home waiting for a repairman to be sent by that mfg to come.
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THERE'S THE HOOP, HOW MANY WILL JUMP THROUGH IT?
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My thinking, ane if I get in a bad mood, it becomes law ;) If Mr Bodyaches doesn't come back, we stop (http://mccallw.tripod.com/deadhorse.jpg)
This thread will be moved to the new Drewski and Chris inspired - BEATING A DEAD HORSE SECTION in 24 hours.
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Do all dealers back up the product they sell if they go out of business and do they notify the manufactuer that they have a customer sitting at home waiting for a repairman to be sent by that mfg to come.
I'm sure he is now telling you Bodyaches that all the other spas are junk and everyone is out to get him becauses of his crusade to make the industry better....right?
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Do all dealers back up the product they sell if they go out of business and do they notify the manufactuer that they have a customer sitting at home waiting for a repairman to be sent by that mfg to come.
I'm not sure I understand the question. Did you mean, Does a Manufacturer back up the product they sell if the dealer goes out of business?
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I'm not sure I understand the question. Did you mean, Does a Manufacturer back up the product they sell if the dealer goes out of business?
Maybe he means after JA puts all the major players out of business, how are those customers supposed to get service. ;D
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This thread will be moved to the new Drewski and Chris inspired - BEATING A DEAD HORSE SECTION in 24 hours.
Happy to see I inspired you.
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Do all dealers back up the product they sell if they go out of business and do they notify the manufactuer that they have a customer sitting at home waiting for a repairman to be sent by that mfg to come.
I'll take a stab at both parts of your question:
1) There are laws on the books nowadays for manufactures to set aside $$ to cover warranty costs over the lives of the spa warranties out there. Our gov't has seen fit to try to see to it that people don't get left holding the bag. Certainly the major manufacturers abide by these accounting rules but its not the Hot Springs and Sundance’s out there that you have to worry about loading up the Mayflower van at 2am to clear out of town. It’s the fly by night operations and this guy will fly with the best of them.
2) As far as the dealer notifying the manufacturer that a customer has asked for service; of course they do not. However, do you know what avenue the customer can take does that owns a spa from a manufacturer that cares about customer service? They can call the manufacturer and complain that they are not getting serviced. I doubt this happens often to the Hot Springs, D1s and Sundances out there but when it does the manufacturer gets involved to determine what the issue is and to make sure the customer gets the proper care. JA has been known to leave customers high and dry who are in need of service. What alternative do they have? Maybe they can call Sandy and complain but the most they'll get is a "sorry, little old me doesn't get involved in Jimmy's business and besides, he's saving up to take me to Vegas to see Wayne Newton so things are tight around here when it comes to honoring warranties".
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Now what I want to know know is why did I get so TOTALLY slammed by the original poster when I edited out the brand name when s/he posted this question on my board?
You mean you have other threads going besides "Naked Girls and no Bubbles"? :o
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What's the topic of discussion,concerning this threaD?
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Cant name the spa.....TOP MILITARY SECRET......if you find out....I'll have to kill you.
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Is there a spa out there that's superior in nature,compared to Hot-springs etc etc?
What aren't you tellin me,Bodyaches?
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Sure there is, just have to research what you get...compare spas with what you get from others...Just like buying a car....dont forget the free duckie that the dealer offers...it may perswade you to buy.
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perswade
another thing that tickles me so, is how people can, and do, actually sit back and argue while using the spelling skills of a chimp. My typing stinks, and I know a lot of the spelling and grammatical faux pas one sees on a message board can be attributed to that, but perswade?
another Mr Happy trademark. just go read the site
Bill, please don't ban me for trashing an individual. I was just ranting about one of my peeves
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I didn't see it on your board. Can you send the link to the thread?
http://www.rhtubs.com/cgi-bin/bbs/2347920_config.pl?frames;read=75886
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txwillie,
Least the mispelled word caught your eye.
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So what do you recommend,bodyaches?
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Just may take the chance on this one in life since so many in here have negitive reasons on this product and have not showed me any of this products customers negitive views. I have spoken to several customer who have purchased this product from sc, ny, nh, az, illinois, except two had problem in which action was taken promply. Word was passsed by them and others have purchased this product.
Some where someone had his ruffles ruffled and has passed the word about this product...we proberly will never learn how or why. Internet can be a good or bad thing...in this case I think it has been used for an evil purpose. If I am wrong I will personally tell everyone so.
But I know most will continue to preach their vindictive remarks. I proberly can go on & on & rattle at the gums but whats the use, the damage has been made but I think to no use.
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Buy whatever spa you like, Mister. As Long as you're Happy, that's all that matters.
Brewman
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.
But I know most will continue to preach their vindictive remarks. I proberly can go on & on & rattle at the gums but whats the use, the damage has been made but I think to no use.
I will add that I have never had anything bad to say about the spas, but if Hitler was selling girl scout cookies, would you buy? Since you haven't actually had one or even see one, I have to question your motives for "can go on and on"
Oh, and when you post about this experience on his board, please note, you were not banned here.
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After receeivng 8 PMs from Mr. Body aches, 1 recomending I purchase a book written by "he who can't be named" and reading the last few entries,they style of response, cadence of the words and overall feel, I've come to my own conclusion that Bodayaches is indeed the JA.
Which is too bad. I had hoped for intelligent discusion, but through various flames and deciet it's devolved into useless crap. I feel the need to shower.
lock the thread, make a note the guildlines and faq and direct any new inquires here. Too bad B.A . Sincerely, I had wanted to really get in to some details and either debunk them or expose them.
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I doubt many of us are shocked to find out that bodyaches is Puddin head (or one of his criminal gang family members). It's not the first time and most likely will not be the last.
It certainly shows the level of desperation he's at to try and drum up business... ::)
Steve
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I'll head over to his forum to see if he logs in from Phoenix this week :)
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proberly
oh my!
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Interesting....Its seems like you are going to spend close to 12 grand to spite the people here, my question to you again is WHY....what is that you feel is so special about the spa... there are many things that make no sense to anyone ,even if people felt the owner was a true prince among men, there really is nothing about the spa that makes it worth its inflated price ITS A RE-BRANDED SPA MADE BY SOMEONE ELSE AND HAS LOST ALL OF SAFETY CERTS, its simply a bad purchase when all is considered ....Good Luck.....
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I always beleived he was NOT Jim in disguise but simply someone leaning the way of the Spa Dark Side. In fact he PM'd me again a while ago to say he has instead purchased a Diamonback spa. It seems that while he was falling for JA's scam to some degree in the end he saw the value of purchasing locally from a dealer. I'm not familar with Diamondback spas but I'd recommend a 55 gallon drum filled with rain water before I'd recommend a spa from the Spa Deceptionist so it appears that another one escaped JAs website of deceit unscathed. Truth and Justice have once again prevailed!!!!!!!!!!! :D ;D
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I'd recommend a 55 gallon drum filled with rain water before I'd recommend a spa from the Spa Deceptionist !!!! :D ;D
I can help: I'll provide the drum, you have to collect the rainwater.
(http://www.highpriorityparts.com/images/55-gallon-drum.gif)
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Ok 1 tiny question? who is this J.A.? And what is his MO? I bought a marquis Epic so I am not worried about This J.A. what ever. But does J. A. stand for Jack @$$?
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But does J. A. stand for Jack @$$?
Among other things........
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Ok 1 tiny question? who is this J.A.? And what is his MO?
The easiest way to answer that is to point you towards the website created to chronicle what it's like to be a customer of his. Check it out for yourself:
http://www.selberg.org/~speed/spa.html
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Are people that niave to think you can buy some thing from the net. that is such a big investment.. well as P.T. Barnum said a fool and his money is soon parted.
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It looks like he finally blew up on the last board that he isn't banned from. It was fun just to sit back and watch, but I had to sneak in one comment. I owed him that one.
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It looks like on that board,they have updated "on the fly" posting. I didn't post there much as,could take days before it would be approved/submitted.
If Sandy is saying 75,000........should we automatically times that by 10?
I can only imagine what Hot-Springs would sue em for,when and if it ever comes about lol.
Had to laff too.....a 50+ year old man,having a temper tantrum over a box of hot water :)
You would think,with his age etc,he would of learned long ago to listen objectively to people,and have learned to play nice and share ;) I really do wonder,at what fork in his life,made him the way he is.?.
The "I'm Righteous,and everyone else shall look up to me" syndrome....is called what in professional laymans term?
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10? My understanding is a multiplyer of 13.3
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The "I'm Righteous,and everyone else shall look up to me" syndrome....is called what in professional laymans term?
Messiah Complex?
(Btw, he's NOT the messiah, and I should know. I've followed a few of them)
Brewman
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Just curious, what is the record for pages in a thread? As a followup, what is the record for threads without ******, Arctic, Ozone, etc. in the title? ;)
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Just curious, what is the record for pages in a thread? As a followup, what is the record for threads without ******, Arctic, Ozone, etc. in the title? ;)
Not sure about pages. I do recall a thread by ZZtop being read over 10,000 times. The topic was something about negotiating the best deal on a tub, but was a strong Beachomber pitch aswell.
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That's worse than the time someone accused me of being an Aritc Spa salesman.
Here, now, what's your problem with being mistaken for an Aritc, uh, Arctic Spa salesman?? :-? :D
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Talk about bored...........Answering an almost 2 year old post?
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Talk about bored...........Answering an almost 2 year old post?
Tom:
That is very sad. Get out there and sell some spas to some dealers. or something. or anything. :P
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He must be just as bored as the 3 of us. We all posted to a 2 year old thread right?
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He must be just as bored as the 3 of us. We all posted to a 2 year old thread right?
Dang, Chad! Your right.
I'm holding my thumb and forefinger up to my forehead.....Loser. ;D
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I responded to an hour and a half old posting. :P
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In THE OTHER thread, we were talking about if any REAL people are still posting over THERE, I think the last REAL post I saw on that board was from Tom. Just wait till Tom says something deemed improper and Arctic spas spas will suddenly become unsafe and run by lying bastards.
Thats just a prediction Tom, not a criticsm.
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I kinda figure Tom has to run a copy of what he intends to post by the cooperate big-wigs before posting it. They in turn run it by three psychologists and at least one voodoo princess before approving it.
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...They in turn run it by three psychologists and at least one voodoo princess before approving it.
Is that why his posts always smell like garlic, and have chicken blood on them?
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LOL ;D ;D ;D
Thanks for brightening my morning, guys!
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Thanks for being the only one posting "over there" who hasn't/doesn't/Isn't-
1- Managed to get banned
2- Have their nose 3/4 of the way up you know where
3- A figment of someone's imagination
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Thanks for being the only one posting "over there" who hasn't/doesn't/Isn't-
1- Managed to get banned
2- Have their nose 3/4 of the way up you know where
3- A figment of someone's imagination
Brewman, are you sure about the third one?
I've heard that while Tom is not invisible, he is slightly translucent.
Just joshin' ya, Tom
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Quite possibly true. But you gotta admire Tom's ability to remain the only non suck up on that forum who still not banned.
Zimmy boy is really having a hissy fit over Erick this week. Erick better watch out. In addition to "J" snitching to Microsoft on him,
I think he's gonna get the red sweater again.
From the Land Where Nothing Makes Any Damn Sense:
QUOTE:
Erik is going to be served a huge dose of Karma. (HERE IS WHERE THE RED SWEATER COMES IN- Run Erik, RUN!)
The problem with him is that he thinks he is smart, but his IQ is most likely about half of mine. (Half of YOUR IQ? That one made pop come out my nose)
peolple like him will always trip up and do it unconsiously, because they think they are getting away with the "I am a good person" image and
his ego is huge, which makes for a lot of errors in judgement. (That certainly explains a lot about YOUR behavior)
I kept waiting for him to make more mistakes, and he has made enough to be unemployed forever in the Internet software business. Nobody will touch (hire) this guy after he is exposed.
I will publish all my information after he is either fired or after the lawsuit is filed. (SO WE'LL NEVER SEE IT, SINCE NEITHER OF THESE THINGS WILL EVER HAPPEN)
END QUOTE.
You had an unsatisfied customer, made him go thru hell for months just to get a refund, and over five years later, you still are bound and determined to
"bring him down". How sick is that?
I'd Like to know what Mike Blute, Official Spokesperson for the Spa Specialist, has to say about this!
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I get a kick out of the fact that apparently Jimmy has just discoved a post that Erik wrote over 1 year and 11 months ago. It took Jimmy almost two years to discover this "stunning information" that he believes will finally destroy his Arch Enemy (one of many, apparently)
I guess the cell phone companies get a pass on his most recent rants against the 'evil, godless corporations who are ruining America'. Just goes to show that not much gets by the all seeing eyes of the "Avenging SpaSpecialista".
Booga-Booga.
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RATS! I leave town for 4 days (camping) and miss all the fun. At least THIS time I wasn't accused of hacking his site again ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
ummmmmmmmmmmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's NOTHING wrong or illegal with unlocking a cell phone and activating features provided by the manufacturer of the phone, but limited by your individual provider (other than possibly voiding the warrant on the phone)......
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ummmmmmmmmmmm, correct me if I'm wrong, but there's NOTHING wrong or illegal with unlocking a cell phone and activating features provided by the manufacturer of the phone, but limited by your individual provider (other than possibly voiding the warrant on the phone)......
Exactly. It's not like Selberg is the only one on the internet posting how to unlock a phone -- a simple Google search will give you hundreds of hits on how to do it. Jim is crazy....
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I'm curious as to the subject of this alleged lawsuit. What in the world would he be suing Erik for?
He'd probably have to pawn a stratocaster or two to get the retainer to pay his lawyer. Which would be no big loss to the music world.
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Possibly Zim iz injunearing a black box,and once completed,he's gonna send it to Erik.
If things ever get way outta hand,inform me,and my baby bro will fix things in a permanent fashion.
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I've heard that while Tom is not invisible, he is slightly translucent.
Yes, this is true. I've noticed this every time I look at my hair in the mirror. It becomes more translucent with every passing year. :( ;)
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is not translucency. This is gravities effect on men. Check your ears and back....... It's still there.
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is not translucency. This is gravities effect on men. Check your ears and back....... It's still there.
I agree. I would fathom a guess that I still have all the hair on my head. It has just migrated to other areas of my body. ;D
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ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh, this is not translucency. This is gravities effect on men. Check your ears and back....... It's still there.
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D