Hot Tub Forum
General => Beating a dead horse => Topic started by: Anoroc on April 14, 2006, 12:06:46 pm
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I just came back from my dealer and I let the sales person know that I am very dissatisfied with my 6-month old spa and that I would like to trade it in.
Since November they have replaced the control board twice, the little display shield that shows the temp settings, and now they have to replace all of my diverter valves (threes small ones and the large main diverter valve).
I let them know that I received a lemon and although I think HS makes a good spa, in my case it did not. I asked that they treat me better than the average guy looking for a trade-in because of my specific problems with this tub.
Even the Service manger said it has been nothing but problems from the beginning.
So- am I being reasonable in asking for them trade my spa back in for something else? In addition- I paid $4900 plus taxes so what is a reasonable amount for a trade in for this 6-month old spa given my circumstances.
The sales person says she will speak to her boss who is in for two hours today and than get back to me.
How would other dealers handle this situation.
Thanks in advance for your comments :'(
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I just came back from my dealer and I let the sales person know that I am very dissatisfied with my 6-month old spa and that I would like to trade it in.
Since November they have replaced the control board twice, the little display shield that shows the temp settings, and now they have to replace all of my diverter valves (threes small ones and the large main diverter valve).
I let them know that I received a lemon and although I think HS makes a good spa, in my case it did not. I asked that they treat me better than the average guy looking for a trade-in because of my specific problems with this tub.
Even the Service manger said it has been nothing but problems from the beginning.
So- am I being reasonable in asking for them trade my spa back in for something else? In addition- I paid $4900 plus taxes so what is a reasonable amount for a trade in for this 6-month old spa given my circumstances.
$4900.00
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if that was me, i would just want a new tub!!!!! you have had it for only 6 months and you have had that much trouble with it, just think what might happen down the road after the warrenty runs out. I would push for a new one. just swap them out.
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The dealer will incur some costs so you should be able to apply whatever you paid for the bad spa towards the purchase of another spa, provided he doesn't jack up the price of the new spa. That way it is a neutral deal for all concerned except the factory who should get it back and reimburse the dealer. After all they were the ones who let an inferior product go out the door.
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The sales person says she will speak to her boss who is in for two hours today and than get back to me.
Thanks in advance for your comments :'(
Here is one thing I look for in a dealer, regardless of the product. If someone says, I'll get back to you, I expect a call within 24 hours (or a working day) , even if its a sorry,we can't do anything for you call.
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Haul the spa down to the front of the dealership, get a megaphone and start ranting and raving to draw a crowd, then perform self-immolation with the spa. That's what I'd do (if I were you).
Terminator
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Term's advice is the best so far. The sqeeky wheel gets the oil as I recently learned and this forum is a great place to be sqeeky, although if you mention the brand, you may get a few dealers of that brand working really hard to discredit your discontent and you may find others of the same brand very eager to help.
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I dont think you are being unreasonable at all. If the product has been repeatedly defective, then getting you into a new one should be obvious. I dont think that I would be asking to "trade in" your currrent spa- that implies a used product that you have grown out of and are wanting to upgrade. I would be asking for a full refund (and then that $ can go to a new one), or an exchange. It may just be semantics, but it is important that everyone realize you have a warrantied item not up to par with expectations.
If you do not hear from the boss by tomorrow, I'd be finding regional HS management and getting "squeaky."
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Thanks for all of the responses.
I just received a message from the sales person who said Jeff (not sure who he is never met him) wants to get the Factory involved. Jeff has placed a call into the factory and will follow up on Monday.
The sales person who left me the message said that HotSprings corporate wants to take care of their customers and so do they (local dealer) so they will take care of me.
At this point I do not know what "taking care" of me means?!
I guess for now I just sit back and wait till Monday.
I would be extremely happy with my a $4900 credit towards my next tub. I seriously doubt they would just refund my money.
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I would be extremely happy with my a $4900 credit towards my next tub. I seriously doubt they would just refund my money.
Agreed. I probably should have said "credit" not "refund." I would not expect cash back, but I'd expect the full amount towards a new tub- either replacement of the same type or credit towrds something else.
Sounds like you are off to a good start!
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Thanks for all of the responses.
I just received a message from the sales person who said Jeff (not sure who he is never met him) wants to get the Factory involved. Jeff has placed a call into the factory and will follow up on Monday.
The sales person who left me the message said that HotSprings corporate wants to take care of their customers and so do they (local dealer) so they will take care of me.
At this point I do not know what "taking care" of me means?!
I guess for now I just sit back and wait till Monday.
I would be extremely happy with my a $4900 credit towards my next tub. I seriously doubt they would just refund my money.
I doubt they will refund you cash too.
Wait till monday and see what they are willing to do. They may just surprise you. Let's hope so. :)
I don't think you should lose anything for getting what appears to be a facotry reject. If they do offer a full trade allowance, you should be careful to watch what the charge you on the new tub. (no inflating the price to cover thier loss).
Would you consider a replacement Jetsetter?
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Anoroc, Just from personal experience, the first thing that I would tell you to do is to document everything.
Write a letter detailing every problem and how the problem was resolved. When you have to repeat the problems over and over to different people, inevitably details get lost. I have also found that I can rationalize much better on paper if I am upset. Since you have been dealing with issues for a while, I would be sure to include all the info that the dealer gave you about how hard the parts were to get. If you are going to send your letter to the company, be sure to copy the dealer.
And Term, your idea about returning the tub...I was only 20 years old with my first new car...I started complaining to the dealer because of the many many problems I had with the car, when he didn't listen, I tried GM..and they didn't pay attention until I told them I was returning it to the showroom...via the big window in the front! ;D
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The sales person who left me the message said that HotSprings corporate wants to take care of their customers and so do they (local dealer) so they will take care of me.
At this point I do not know what "taking care" of me means?!
The "Customer Service" Squad is on it's way from California. Better say your goodbyes to your loved ones.
Terminator
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Since the dealer is looking into it ... let them. If it's not to YOUR satisfaction then get HS involved.
I agree with bonibelle, document everything and try to get what they are going to do in writing.
Every so often a "problem" product arrises and sometimes the right people don't know about it. If the right people do something , then it becomes a non issue. Unfortunately sometimes people don't let those people know about it until it becomes a really big deal.
Good Luck!
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IMO (and I'm more unreasonable than most, I guess), I'd say they should offer to pick up the defective unit and replace it with an identical (but fully functional) tub, no charge to you. OR, give you the option before cementing that particular deal, to use your total purchase price toward a higher priced tub......either way, you got a lemon, and are simply looking to not get screwed.
If not......I kinda like Term's idea combined with Boni's.....get a megaphone, a 200+ pound bald guy doing jumping jacks in the tub.....and add Mr. Bubble, all right in front of the showroom. THEN....let the dealer know that the clothing will come off as the bubbles start forming.....and they will NOT be replaced, until you have IN WRITING a satisfactory deal. ;D ;)
Good luck! (I'll be watching this thread to see how HS deals with this one.....)
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I hope I do not come across as having no empathy here but the problems you have had seem to be more of a great nuisance type and while being very unfortunate they are in the big picture on the smaller scale. I say this because you have had no structure issues and no leaks nothing that would seem to indicate a poorly built spa but more of component problem. I completely understand how you feel and I think it would not be out of line to expect something for your troubles but I am not sure that a new spa is quite the answer yet. I hope you understand that what I am sharing is not with the thought of belittling your troubles but I am trying to say while unfortunate they should be easily fixed and do not represent a poorly built spa. ;D...I sell a competitive product to Hot Springs so if anything I should be throwing fuel to the fire..... ;)....but I think if given the chance they will make things right for you and at this time it might not be a new tub.....but hey it just might also..... :)
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I still think you ought to set yourself and the spa on fire in front of the store. That'd be a lot less painful than what the "Customer Service" Squad has planned for you.
The Gulfstream IV should be touching down in Nebraska annnnnnnyyyy moment now.
I have received instructions to intercept should you make a run for Mexico.
Terminator
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Term are you the Hot Springs version of the minute man.....
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but that's okay.....Term makes me LAUGH!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Term are you the Hot Springs version of the minute man.....
...I am according to Ol' Meanness.
Actually, more of a problem "eliminator" as opposed to "solver". Well, moreso of a "creator" than either.
Terminator
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...I am according to Ol' Meanness.
Actually, more of a problem "eliminator" as opposed to "solver". Well, moreso of a "creator" than either.
Terminator
lol....While I am sure you are her 'minute man" at heart..... ;)
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lol....While I am sure you are her 'minute man" at heart..... ;)
...amongst other parts of my anatomy.
Terminator
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...amongst other parts of my anatomy.
Terminator
lol...I thought it....but you said it.... ;)
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I hope I do not come across as having no empathy here but the problems you have had seem to be more of a great nuisance type and while being very unfortunate they are in the big picture on the smaller scale. I say this because you have had no structure issues and no leaks nothing that would seem to indicate a poorly built spa but more of component problem.
You know I agree that my issues are not issues such as a leak. On the other hand each time I have a problem it takes weeks to get any resolution and than I have another problem. If you look back at another thread (can't remember the title right now) my diverter valve issues started about 1 month ago. It took three weeks to replace my display shield and about two weeks to even get my spa up in running.
Mendocino- I am paranoid of having additional problems with this spa. This may not be the most expensive spa out there but believe me it took me several years of hints to my wife before she finally agreed to the purchase. Needless to say she thinks I made a big mistake.
I appreicate your opinion though. Sometimes when you are in the middle of something it is hard to see clearly. In this case I do think I am right!
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Would you consider a replacement Jetsetter?
Yes, I would consider a replacement or pay extra for an upgrade to a bigger spa.
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I think your problem (and I think I posted this before) are more dealer service related than the spa....I mean you have some real issues but the dealer seems to drop the ball on you... had he taken care of those diverter's in a more timely fashion I am sure you would not be as frustrated as are now....Hot Springs while not being a Marquis..... ;)..... ;)..... ;).....does have a great reputation for taking care of their customers ...so I am sure it will be made right for you....
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There is a Marquis dealer opeining up in town. Used to be partners with the caldera dealer than they had a falling out.
I hear he is making good deals to people on the first few spas he orders. Problem is he doesn't have any service tehcs yet except for himself.
He is quoting my friend on a couple of spas and he should be opening up soon. It is nice to have options.
As for my situation, I don't think he's taking trade-ins :)
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Mendocino- I am paranoid of having additional problems with this spa. This may not be the most expensive spa out there but believe me it took me several years of hints to my wife before she finally agreed to the purchase. Needless to say she thinks I made a big mistake.
Although I'm not having the problems you are having, my wife feels about our spa the same way. When I told her the good treatment I received from Artesian she said why did I wait so long and she truely believes that I made a mistake with my tub.
I think sometimes you have to make s**t roll downhill and if need be do it. I am patient and when I don't receive the service I think I deserve then I go up the ladder. I've called presidents of corporations a few times due to the garbage people delt me. I warn them, give them time but if they can't seem to get it right, then I go to the top.
I see Mendo's point and I see your's too. The dealer is definately failing you but at the same time your pissed because your tub is broken. Heck, I get pissed when my jet comes off in my hand!
As I said before, wait until Monday - If things aren't right for you then call HS and complain to the highest person you can talk to ... heck if you get the run around call Masco and speak to their president. Before calling think about what YOU want to resolve YOUR problem. Tell them everything while being calm and NICE - NICE gets you places.
You might be surprised at what happens IF HS is the company everybody touts it to be. Maybe, just maybe your dealer will get wacked in the head with a HS 2x4! ;D
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As I said before, wait until Monday - If things aren't right for you then call HS and complain to the highest person you can talk to ...
You might be surprised at what happens IF HS is the company everybody touts it to be. Maybe, just maybe your dealer will get wacked in the head with a HS 2x4! ;D
Thanks Vinny- I will wait.
By the way, I think in many respects I have been too patient. I keep letting them know of my frustrations but I am always so nice about it.
This time I shared my frustration and asked that it be brought to the attention of someone who is capable of making a decision. At my dealer there does not appear to be anyone on the floor who can make a decison.
Thanks again. ;)
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You are not unresaonable. As a dealer, I would get the manufacturer involved immediately and go to bat for you, our mutual customer.
I would ask for a new spa and want them to take your spa back.
After that, I would not charge you a penny. It would be reasonable for me to obsorb the costs of delivery and pick-up. It's the right thing to do!
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I know the control panel shouldn't or wouldn't be a consumer related neglect issue or error, but what about the diverter valve issues? Could this be caused be improper chemical maintenance by a consumer? I'm in no way trying to blame Anoroco of doing something wrong, but there must be a reason why all the diverter valves went bad. Just curious, so as, to keep my tub working fine for many years to come. :)
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I know the control panel shouldn't or wouldn't be a consumer related neglect issue or error, but what about the diverter valve issues? Could this be caused be improper chemical maintenance by a consumer? I'm in no way trying to blame Anoroco of doing something wrong, but there must be a reason why all the diverter valves went bad. Just curious, so as, to keep my tub working fine for many years to come. :)
Good question: It probably would take longer than 6 months to damage a spa due to poor water maintenance; not sure.
However, this is not the case here. I test my water every two weeks. I shock once a week and I maintain required levels of TA and PH. After each soak I place in about 1 ts of dichlor which gets me to the 4-5 ppr.
Wate is clear and free of foam. At start up I put in stain and scale and mainitain dose about every two weeks.
My main diverter valve started acting funny durring the first few weeks of ownership. I asked them to check it out when they were fixining my control box and they said it appeared fine. I took their word for it but it did not respond the same way as when I first tried it but it did still work.
When one of my smaller diverter valves stopped working the service man came to fix it when I stepped outside he was working on the main diverter valve. I told him that is not the one I called on. He said it was sticking so he was going to lubricate it. After he left both diverter valves were not working. The third diverter valve started having problems almost immediately.
Not sure of the timeing but it is not a water issue. I have listened and practiced everyting I have learned from this post and the RH site vermonter method.
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If a dealer sells a spa with multiple problems (a rarity but occassional reality from HS) why should he have to eat it?
We sell these products, we do not manufacture them. Anoroc should be requesting satisfaction from Hot Spring in MHO.
However, Hot Spring wants the dealer to be the middleman in the process.
My advice is document everything and e-mail customer service at Hot Spring. Keep communication channels open with the dealer. Tell them you want to work with them to find a solution. Maybe keep the tub and get an extended warranty.
How big is your dealer? Do they stock parts? Your stories about how long it takes to resolve issues would concern me.
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IMHO I feel you have possibly been a little to passive.
I just got my new tub yesterday and If I was having the problems that you are talking about you can bet I would being doing what Term was saying and be at the store causing some stink.
I do think you need to keep a level head about things and after the first problem and long wait on service I would have let them know that I understand there can and may be problems from time to time and people can get busy and take longer than expected to get you service, but after the first time I would start having a major problem with it.
Its not like you purchsed a $100 weedeater that is not working properly, You have spent alot of money on this item which for some can take years to save and lots of planning, and like you said now your wife thinks it was a mistake and I can sempatize with you on that, it is hard enough to convince them at times, then when you finnally do the tub is a lemon.
Even if it is not a structure problem you should be enjoying your tub not having headaches and not getting to use it.
I really hope you get a full trade-in value towards a new tub and it should happen first thing this coming week.
Good luck and I hope you are back in hot water soon.
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There is a Marquis dealer opeining up in town. Used to be partners with the caldera dealer than they had a falling out.
I hear he is making good deals to people on the first few spas he orders. Problem is he doesn't have any service tehcs yet except for himself.
He is quoting my friend on a couple of spas and he should be opening up soon. It is nice to have options.
As for my situation, I don't think he's taking trade-ins :)
I was just teasing about the Marquis....just trying to lighten the mood.... ;D
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I was just teasing about the Marquis....just trying to lighten the mood.... ;D
I know you were and I appreciate it. ;D ;D
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If a dealer sells a spa with multiple problems (a rarity but occassional reality from HS) why should he have to eat it?
We sell these products, we do not manufacture them. Anoroc should be requesting satisfaction from Hot Spring in MHO.
However, Hot Spring wants the dealer to be the middleman in the process.
My advice is document everything and e-mail customer service at Hot Spring. Keep communication channels open with the dealer. Tell them you want to work with them to find a solution. Maybe keep the tub and get an extended warranty.
How big is your dealer? Do they stock parts? Your stories about how long it takes to resolve issues would concern me.
I agree, the dealer should be the middle man. I don't think my dealer stocks too many parts. I was surprised that they did not have diverter valves in stock. They said they hardly ever need to replace them. When I asked for a venturi injector they had to order it as well. And they did not have control panels in stock either.
As for their size? The are the only hotspring dealer in my town. I do believe most of their business is from the pool side of the business (commerical and residential).
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I agree, the dealer should be the middle man. I don't think my dealer stocks too many parts. I was surprised that they did not have diverter valves in stock. They said they hardly ever need to replace them. When I asked for a venturi injector they had to order it as well. And they did not have control panels in stock either.
As for their size? The are the only hotspring dealer in my town. I do believe most of their business is from the pool side of the business (commerical and residential).
Where do you live Anoroc?
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/c24275e9.jpg)
....and post pictures.
Terminator
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Problems happen...how they get taken care of is a different story. I would probably handle the situation like rocket said he would but again we as dealers are at the mercy of the factory making the decision so the answer doesn't always come in the time frame you would like.
My personal opinion of spa issues is this...
If you have some problems with your car your going to be frustrated but you expect some failure through the experience of cars being around that long.
If your TV breaks you immediately start thinking of upgrading to the newest and best...you also don't expect the technology to be good for more than a few years on most electronics so after a couple of years you might be disappointed but not raging mad.
Spas are a whole other thing, many people look at it as a big toy. Something everyone wants but they think it really isn't a necessity so it hurts a bit more to empty the savings for.
I've said before...a car is a necessity, furniture you can justify paying more for style and quality in your house, we got over TV's and stereos being just toys years ago and now make them necessary so we feel good about that money but many people feel guilty for buying a spa because they think of it as “just a luxury” so the minuet something goes wrong we say “I knew I shouldn’t have spent my savings on this thing” and our patients for mechanical or electrical failure goes out the door.
I’m not saying that’s what has happened here in fact, I believe that there needs to be something done at a factory level to make you feel better and the dealer needs to make it a priority to make it happen.
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Hey Term, I thought HotSpring got rid of those heaters!?!?! ;)
Don't let JA get ahold of that picture ;D
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Where do you live Anoroc?
Cedar Rapids, Iowa...they call it the city of five smells because we have a huge quaker oats facotry in town.
We have a Caldera dealer, a HS dealer, Sundance, QCA, a new Jacuzzi dealer just opened and a Marquis dealer on the way. Very price sensitive community with highly conservative values. A mix of blue collar and white collar workforce with just about 121,000 people.
Great place to live, not so good to visit. :)
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Term- I already did this but forgot to take pics. Can you send me a new one, preferably an 06 model with all the fixins.
(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/c24275e9.jpg)
....and post pictures.
Terminator
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Anoroc, less the problems, how do you like the spa otherwise? If you had to do it all over again, would you go with a larger spa? Good luck with your Jetsetter.
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Anoroc, less the problems, how do you like the spa otherwise? If you had to do it all over again, would you go with a larger spa? Good luck with your Jetsetter.
I do like the Jetsetter. My wife was pretty reisistant to spending too much money so this spa seemed to make the most sense.
Between you and my though...A slightly larger spa and deeper would probably be better. My wife and I are not real thinny minnies more like chunky dunkies :D
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Update as of yesterday evening. Sales rep had not received and answer from her boss who was waiting on an answer from the factory of HS.
sales rep said would also contact HS regional rep (or something like this) and get him involoved because her boss was going on vacatiion.
She said she would try to have an answer for me in the next couple of days.
That's all folks...
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If a dealer sells a spa with multiple problems (a rarity but occassional reality from HS) why should he have to eat it?
We sell these products, we do not manufacture them. Anoroc should be requesting satisfaction from Hot Spring in MHO.
However, Hot Spring wants the dealer to be the middleman in the process.
My advice is document everything and e-mail customer service at Hot Spring. Keep communication channels open with the dealer. Tell them you want to work with them to find a solution. Maybe keep the tub and get an extended warranty.
How big is your dealer? Do they stock parts? Your stories about how long it takes to resolve issues would concern me.
Wow.
Now maybe this is written from a dealer to other dealers viewpoint, or I missed somehting in the thread, but from a customer standpoint, I would have snapped if my dealer shuffled me off to the manufactuer. WTF? Anaorc's tub is 6 mo old. I'd be ripped ten times to sunday if my dealer said "Go talk to hotsprings...I didn't make the tub."
I see taking care of the customer as the dealers resposibility. No "Ifs - Ands- or Buts" about it.
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Anoroc, I hope you are getting names, first and last of the people you are talking to. I also hope you are writing letters and documenting this whole mess. You may well find that the sales rep hasn't pressed the issue and Hot Springs has no clue about your problems.
At this point I would be writing letters complete with photos of the diverter problems. Write a detailed letter with dates and how your calls were received and addressed and clearly state what YOU expect at this point. If you think you should have a new tub, say that.
They will continue to blow you off if you don't stand firm. I am sure the "boss" has a cell phone, get that number..don't deal with your sales guy any longer, talk to the owner of your dealership...tell him you are writing a letter to Hot Springs and will copy him and that you had hoped to resolve it at the dealer level but obviously they don't have time to help you. I bet you wouldn't be getting this run around if you bought your tub from someone like Term...I believe he would take care of this. Obvioulsy your dealer is a looser!
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CALL HS IMMEDIATELY AND TALK TO SOMEONE IN CHARGE THERE - DO NOT WAIT ANOTHER SECOND - BE PISSED BUT NICE AND GET WHAT [glb]YOU[/glb] WANT - DO NOT LEAVE IT UP TO SOMEONE ELSE!!!
That's my opinion!!
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CALL HS IMMEDIATELY AND TALK TO SOMEONE IN CHARGE THERE - DO NOT WAIT ANOTHER SECOND - BE PISSED BUT NICE AND GET WHAT [glb]YOU[/glb] WANT - DO NOT LEAVE IT UP TO SOMEONE ELSE!!!
That's my opinion!!
It's pretty hard to go against my individual personality. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt.
I just called my service dealer and requested and received the phone number to the HotStprings RSM. I let the dealer know that I am documenting all conversation on paper and I will also use this forum as documentation as well. I did not tell them that part.
I will plan on calling the RSM directly to see if I can get some helpl with this problem.
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Called Mario the RSM and left messge to call me back left my cell number. I will let you know how it goes.
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Wow.
Now maybe this is written from a dealer to other dealers viewpoint, or I missed somehting in the thread, but from a customer standpoint, I would have snapped if my dealer Ęshuffled me off to the manufactuer. ĘWTF? ĘAnaorc's tub is 6 mo old. Ę I'd be ripped ten times to sunday if my dealer said "Go talk to hotsprings...I didn't make the tub."
I see taking care of the customer as the dealers resposibility. Ę No "Ifs Ę- Ands- Ęor Buts" about it.
You misunderstood me. I did not say taking care of customer is not the dealer's responsibility. However, if the resolution is going to be as extreme as replacing a $5000.00 tub, that is beyond the dealer. Repairing under warranty is dealer's responsibilty. It is the dealer's job to make sure their is a resolution. Once demand is for new tub, it is beyond dealer.
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Called Mario the RSM and left messge to call me back left my cell number. I will let you know how it goes.
Mario's a good man. He'll do a good job for you.
Terminator
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Update: spoke to RSM for HotSprings and explained situation.
He says he wants until Friday to research issues and speak to appropriate people and he will call me back.
Says they will take care of me one way or another.
I will keep you posted.
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You misunderstood me. I did not say taking care of customer is not the dealer's responsibility. However, if the resolution is going to be as extreme as replacing a $5000.00 tub, that is beyond the dealer. Repairing under warranty is dealer's responsibilty. It is the dealer's job to make sure their is a resolution. Once demand is for new tub, it is beyond dealer.
For the most part I understand what you ment. The tub is the manufacturers resposibility, but I'd still expect the dealer to be "assisting" me.
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Update: spoke to RSM for HotSprings and explained situation.
Now they know where you live.
He says he wants until Friday to research issues and speak to appropriate people and he will call me back.
Stalling for time to assemble hit team, create cover stories, plant evidence, etc.
Says they will take care of me one way or another.
You better believe it. Tell your family you love them.
I'm not kidding. And don't try to run, you'll only die tired.
Terminator
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Just voted my Proxy for MASCO, one atypical question was about axing spa manufacturing...mmmm
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For the most part I understand what you ment. The tub is the manufacturers resposibility, but I'd still expect the dealer to be "assisting" me. Ę
Absolutely! Dealer should be assisting, advocating, rattling cages. That's what I do when I have to.
Now that Term has promised Mario will take care of it we can all relax. After all, Term is a gun totin' fool.
;)
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Spoke with Peg of customer service at Watkins:
She asked me some questions and let me know that she would look into the history of the Jetsetter and get back to me within 24- hours.
She also said that she cannot make the dealer take the spa back. I let her know that I felt it could be done with a little pressure from Watkins and then between the two of them they could work out the details.
I will wait to hear back!
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That's good, now you are getting someplace. Maybe they can resolve the issues and you won't really need to get a new spa. I think if the dealer had been more responsive to start with, you probably wouldn't be asking for a new tub. ;)
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Update: Watkins has determined that my jetsetter is not a lemon. They beleive that the spa sat at dealer storage since quarter 1 of last year and because it was wrapped and due to humidity that is the cause for the corrosion to the Control board and Control Panel.
They also said that some Jesetters have had diverter valve problems but they can be repaired.
Conclusion- They are sending me back to the dealer. I let Watkins know I am unhappy with service and they said they will be speaking to the dealer about this latter today.
I am still going to see what I can work out directly through the dealer for a replacement arrangement.
Watkins beleives that once my diverter valve issues are taken care of that I really shouldn't have any more problems.
Even New Update: RSM called me back and says he talked to dealership owners and they will try to put together some options for me and get back to me on Friday. He could not tell me what they were at this time but he said he will call and let me know.
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(http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b206/EastTexasSpa/7b9a6e48.jpg)
The "Customer Service" squad is now in your area.
Mario is the one in front. Goodbye, my friend. :'(
PS I'm passed out drunk and having to be carried.
Terminator
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Lets see, the control panel was ruined by humidity because the tub was in storage? Since they were quick to diagnose that issue, that would indicate that they have established a shelf life for spas in storage. Yet they sold it to you without checking for that problem first. And they know that they have a problem with faulty diverters but have waited until a customer reaches the point of frustration to fix it? Good thing the spa industry doesn't answer to the FDA.. Sorry but I think they should be a bit more accomodating and I would have asked for a three way to call with the dealer to be sure they understood what Watkins said, and what you expected. :-/ I know these things can be fixed but no one needs this much aggrivation...
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I agree with Bonibelle. I'm sure they're trying their best to help you, but I'd be upset, too, if I were in your shoes. >:(
Terminator
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A spa's control panel can't take some humidity - HA HA HA. I guess they test their spas with sand. I guess that a HS spa has to be in an environment of say 25% relative humidity ... HMMMM!
They put out a product with a known problem and shrug their shoulders about it, their dealer drags their feet to fix it and they're thinking about what to do ... HMMMM!
I think they're starting to drink their own kool aide.
I'm sorry that you are going through this Anoroc , I sincerely hope that they do the right thing for you and everything becomes easier for you!
NO disrespect to any of you HS sales and service people and owners but I will say I'M GLAD I DIDN'T BUY A HS! HS is NOT the company it once was - it is a Costco spa!!!
Maybe JA is right after all about HS!
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Let's get real. They say they think the issue of corrosion was because spa sat in DEALER's warehouse for 6 months. If true, how is that the fault of the manufacturer. These things are designed to be used in backyard environments, from Calgary to Phoenix, not to be stored in warehouses. For anyone without any data/facts, to pretend to know whether quality is better or worse than it used to be is absurd.
Anoroc has gotten communication going at a higher level than the dealer. He has Peggy in customer service and Mario, RSM, working on the situation. Absurd it has gotten this far. Hope it can all be resolved.
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Maybe I skipped over it, but I didn't recall Anorocs' service issues including the control panel. And as far as what the factory said about the humidity blah blah blah...I warehouse in Florida and have never had an issue with wrapped spas no matter 1 month or 3 years old.
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Let's get real. They say they think the issue of corrosion was because spa sat in DEALER's warehouse for 6 months. If true, how is that the fault of the manufacturer. These things are designed to be used in backyard environments, from Calgary to Phoenix, not to be stored in warehouses. For anyone without any data/facts, to pretend to know whether quality is better or worse than it used to be is absurd.
Anoroc has gotten communication going at a higher level than the dealer. He has Peggy in customer service and Mario, RSM, working on the situation. Absurd it has gotten this far. Hope it can all be resolved.
I agree that it is absurd that it has gotten this far ... it should NEVER have. >:( The manufacturer makes spas that have control boards that get bad in humidity ... NJ gets 80% to 100% humidity in the summer - I think that's pretty high!
My question is - where's the GREAT HS customer service that is touted? ??? ??? Obviously a HS is only as good as the dealer ... doesn't give me that warm and fuzzy feeling ... could buy any spa for that matter.
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Maybe I skipped over it, but I didn't recall Anorocs' service issues including the control panel. And as far as what the factory said about the humidity blah blah blah...I warehouse in Florida and have never had an issue with wrapped spas no matter 1 month or 3 years old.
My original post stated control board. The customer service lady confirmed it was a control board and control panel. I confused the terms as I am not familiar with the components of the hot tub.
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At this point I can only hope that the local dealer comes through with something viable.
Mario said he would call me on Friday with some "options". I don't know what that can possibly mean.
I will say this much, Mario has been more involved in my issues than the local dealer.
Can someone tell me how to post a pic. I want to show you something.
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My original post stated control board. The customer service lady confirmed it was a control board and control panel. I confused the terms as I am not familiar with the components of the hot tub.
I went back and read the original post. Thanks for the clarification.
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Can someone tell me how to post a pic?
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Lets all be real here. I think what happened is that the comment about the board and it being stored in a warehouse is way out of line and I would guess it was made by someone who was grasping for an excuse. I think the bottom line is the dealer dropped the ball and did not follow up with Anoroc.....The reason for my earlier post about this was that a bad board or a diverter valve does mean a poorly built spa......But the service here is whats lacking any maker can and will have parts that fail it is common reality of everything that is produced....but you find the problem and fix it....I think if your list of problems continues to grow and they are not resolved in a timely fashion than you will than have a more real chance about getting your spa replaced. For your sake I wish your dealer had taken better care of you before.
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Can someone tell me how to post a pic?
Go to photobucket.com and sign up for a free account.
Follow the directions to download the pic. Once the pic is downloaded, copy and paste the code from the bottom option below the pic. That's it! :)
Terminator
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"http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/anaroc/IMG_0183.jpg"
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/anaroc/IMG_0183.jpg)
If someone can figure out how to correct this picture link above it demonstrates my dealers attempt to fix my valves. Two of the three valves in this picture have been replaced. Please notice that in the shut-off position all the valves now face different directions.
When it was working fine the shut off position looked like the valve on the right.
You would think that after four weeks and three visits that when they fixed it they would do it right. This was done just yesterday so I took this picture and dropped it off at the dealer and asked them to fix it right.
I guess it's minor but for me nothing is a minor issue anymore.
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Can someone tell me how to post a pic?
The picture must reside on a web page somewhere and not just be a file on your computer as best I can tell. You hit the 4th button on the bottom row that kind of looks like a picture and it gives you this:
[img ]URL[/img]
except it won't have a space in the first set of brackets. Erase the the part that says URL and copy the URL of the photo there. If you are not using something like photobucket then the URL can usually be found by right clicking on the photo and then clicking on properties at the bottom (at least on a PC, not sure about Mac). Insert the URL between the two img brackets and it should appear on your message.
(http://accordionguy.blogware.com/Photos/2003/11/tub_teaser_2.JPG)
Might be simpler way but that is how I do it. ;D
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Mendo,
What you said I agree 100% but when something festers then something above and beyond needs to be done IMO.
Grasping for things, pisses me off as a tech - don't give excuses - just do the right thing. A customer spent 1,000's of dollars and has been given the shaft by the dealer. HS needs to make their customer happy.
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"http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/anaroc/IMG_0183.jpg"
(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/anaroc/IMG_0183.jpg)
If someone can figure out how to correct this picture link above it demonstrates my dealers attempt to fix my valves. Two of the three valves in this picture have been replaced. Please notice that in the shut-off position all the valves now face different directions.
When it was working fine the shut off position looked like the valve on the right.
You would think that after four weeks and three visits that when they fixed it they would do it right. This was done just yesterday so I took this picture and dropped it off at the dealer and asked them to fix it right.
I guess it's minor but for me nothing is a minor issue anymore.
Just make sure they don't pull out a permanent marker and draw an X on your tub to indicate the OFF position. :)
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(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/anaroc/IMG_0183.jpg)
Let me try this again:
This demonstrates my dealers attempt to fix my valves. Two of the three valves in this picture have been replaced. Please notice that in the shut-off position all the valves now face different directions.
When it was working fine the shut off position looked like the valve on the right.
You would think that after four weeks and three visits that when they fixed it they would do it right. This was done just yesterday so I took this picture and dropped it off at the dealer and asked them to fix it right.
I guess it's minor but for me nothing is a minor issue anymore.
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That is unacceptable. Period.
Terminator
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(http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h75/shabba34/before.jpg)
Thanks for the picture help Term. I've never attempted until now.
Back to your regularly scheduled air control malfunction... 8)
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(http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i20/anaroc/IMG_0182.jpg)
Sorry, I couldn't resist. This is my four year old princes.
She'll be the cause of many sleepless nights in years to come. :D
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She sure is a cutie pie! You're going to need to get a gun collection and start cleaning it in front of her dates when she turns 35. ;D
Terminator
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Mendo,
What you said I agree 100% but when something festers then something above and beyond needs to be done IMO.
Grasping for things, pisses me off as a tech - don't give excuses - just do the right thing. A customer spent 1,000's of dollars and has been given the shaft by the dealer. HS needs to make their customer happy.
That is what I am saying "It needs to be made right" and with something added for all the trouble. I am just saying that it might be a bit early to be looking for a new spa that was my whole point. It has been handled poorly and it should never had gotten so far for what is a small problem that because of its lack of follow up has made into a big problem but again I just think it might unrealistic to think a new spa is going to be on its way...
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She sure is a cutie pie! You're going to need to get a gun collection and start cleaning it in front of her dates when she turns 35. ;D
Terminator
I might even take shooting lessons.
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On the other hand however, IF Anoroc had purchased his spa from Costco.com he could simply request a refund by simply stating his level of frustration and dissatifaction, get 100% of his money back and go on with his life. ;D
Seems like a simple solution to me, isn't this what they will be doing in the future. After all, an object that is intended to operate with water and high levels of humidity with a cover on it, shouldn't they anticipate humidity? ???
And I just can not understand WHAT the problem is with getting the diverters lined up correctly. IF they should all be in the 7:00 position and they are when they leave the factory, WHY can they NOT simply align them properly in the field? I will admit, I have never worked on the plumbing of a HS but, can't you simply "cut" the plumbing and align them correctly if necessary?
Anoroc, I am sorry about this unusual level of frustration, and it would be simple for me to say, as a dealer of whatever product, we would have simply replaced your spa with or without the factory, BUT something bigger is at work here, like East Tx says, there is a BIGGER plan here but it doesn't seem to be making you happy. :-/
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I'll be the first to admit that if I had it to do all over again I would not have purchased my spa from here. They have been in business for a long time and frankly, I don't know how I would have known about their lack of service responsibility.
I would certainly consider any other spa over this now...
When this is over I may consider trying to sell it off on my own and just eat my losses and move on to something else.
I sure wish the mangement at Hot Springs was reading this post so they could understand that I am not alone in how I feel.
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I'll be the first to admit that if I had it to do all over again I would not have purchased my spa from here. They have been in business for a long time and frankly, I don't know how I would have known about their lack of service responsibility.
I would certainly consider any other spa over this now...
When this is over I may consider trying to sell it off on my own and just eat my losses and move on to something else.
I sure wish the mangement at Hot Springs was reading this post so they could understand that I am not alone in how I feel.
None of us would be able to anticipate how good or bad the dealer is going to be unless the dealer was an a** from the start. Don't beat yourself up. Maybe ask Mario to change repair dealers so that you won't have to deal with your dealer anymore AFTER the resolution with your tub.
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None of us would be able to anticipate how good or bad the dealer is going to be unless the dealer was an a** from the start. Don't beat yourself up. Maybe ask Mario to change repair dealers so that you won't have to deal with your dealer anymore AFTER the resolution with your tub.
I know we have been asked by Hot Spring to do service on spas sold by other dealers because of level of frustration.
Incidentally, the valves are the air valves, not diverter valves. Ask Mario to come out with the service tech. If the service tech does not know how to repair, and Mario also doesn't (some RSMs do, some don't) demand that Mario get it fixed, and, as I think Mendo said, demand something extra for your troubles.
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Anoroc,
I just want to be very clear about something....I hope you get the level of satisfaction and service you deserve....Its easy to rant and rave about what someone else should do....but in the real world the problems you have had to this point probably are not enough to get you a new spa......( BUT I Hope you do).....I was not wanting to negative but just hoped to get you to think about another option for you.....Again I think this has been handled very poorly and you should be compensated in some way for all of your frustration .....
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Anoroc,
I just want to be very clear about something....I hope you get the level of satisfaction and service you deserve....Its easy to rant and rave about what someone else should do....but in the real world the problems you have had to this point probably are not enough to get you a new spa......( BUT I Hope you do).....I was not wanting to negative but just hoped to get you to think about another option for you.....Again I think this has been handled very poorly and you should be compensated in some way for all of your frustration .....
I understand your point. I posted in order to get the opinions of others on this board. I think you are right in that if I had a great and responsive dealer all of these issues would have appeared to be so insignificant.
At this point I would like to put this behind me but no matter what the solution in the end if I have this spa they are the ones who are in town to service it.
I will keep you posted.
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Anoroc, we all know you have a good quality manufacturered product. We also know HS Springs and your Dealer will work with you to seek and find an amicable solution that will meet your needs and leave you not only happy but in Hot Water and Loving it. ;D,
However, it does exemplify the fact that our expectations of Product, People and Price are the basic requirements that we all shop for. We certainly can not focus on one without the others in mind.
PRODUCT, PEOPLE AND PRICE Wouldn't it be nice to get all Three, and sometimes you do. It would be good if we could luck out and at least get Two, But invariably, Sometimes you only get ONE.
You need to line up your order, 1,2,3, which one would you choose to delete first, and then which one is second, that leaves you with the most important one first and foremost.
You have experienced "an issue", and that is something that will find a solution. It just seems to be the time delay that has amplified things, which is part of the problem. It will corrected I'm sure. Simple to say, but that is where the People come in. You have a disappointment that has been complicated by delay.
It's a sampling of the everyday experiences of all the dealers in the industry that we go through, and we all aim to please. Some people just sell product and others of us "follow through" and deliver the expectations. They just haven't hit your target yet. They will.
Frankly, that is what we all hope to do, please you and satisfy your expectations, pure and simple. That's our job. It is the hopeful expectation of every Hot Tub Buyer to select a good quality Product, Pay a Fair Price, and be treated well and with respect in a timely fashion that leaves everyone happy and In Hot Water.
Situations are handled by every Dealer differently, so shop your Dealer, Shop the Product and Shop the Various Price Ranges. If something is a little more than you expected, see what is available for what you want to spend, see what you like and for the $ differences make a business decision, this one or that one.
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Many times the level of satisfaction that a customer recieves is dependent on the way he approaches the problem. I think that Anoroc is a nice person and was willing to be patient for a while. That may have been a mistake with this particular dealer since I really believe if you are unhappy, you need to state your case and sometimed do it loudly if no one listens! Just like you sales guys can kind of read a potential customer as to where they are and if they are really interested, a customer service person can anticipate a customers reaction by the way they complain or how much they complain. I am not real confident that Anoroc will come away from this whole thing feeling good about anything.
If he gets rid of his tub will his wife be willing to chance it again? It is a shame to have to give up something that you really enjoy because it doesn't live up to it's reputation. :-/
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I sure wish the mangement at Hot Springs was reading this post so they could understand that I am not alone in how I feel.
Maybe they do. Hi Steve, Mike, Matt..... ;)
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Anoroc,
I just want to be very clear about something....I hope you get the level of satisfaction and service you deserve....Its easy to rant and rave about what someone else should do....but in the real world the problems you have had to this point probably are not enough to get you a new spa......( BUT I Hope you do).....I was not wanting to negative but just hoped to get you to think about another option for you.....Again I think this has been handled very poorly and you should be compensated in some way for all of your frustration .....
I agree with the above.
The problems are frustrating and they've escalated well past were they should have.
Is the tub a lemon? Eh. I can't say. But as a consumer and ower I understand your frustration. I was hoping HS would have taken the tub back and offered you a replacement jetsetter or full trade in value towards anothr HS tub.
You've alluded that you are working with RSM, what are they attempting to do now that Corporate has said no new tub? Are they going to come out and fully resolve all your issues?
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Maybe they do. Ę ĘHi Steve, Mike, Matt..... Ę ;)
If I were Mario, I would read it. Anoroc, do Peggy and Mario and the dealer know about this thread? If not, let them know. This is the virtual version of picketing the store...from the comfort of your computer.
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I left a message for Peggy and Mario inviting them to review this site. Not sure if they will but I asked them to.
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You might invite them to the Costco thread too! ;) :D
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You might invite them to the Costco thread too! ;) :D
Too Funny :D
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Yeah, I'd love to see their reply. Uh, well ,um er....the decision to sell at costco.com was to provide a low cost quality market share for Watkins manufacturing and increase profits and revenue to discern if specialty retailers are in fact needed, OH CRAP, did I say that out loud?!
You might invite them to the Costco thread too! ;) :D
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Yeah, I'd love to see their reply. Uh, well ,um er....the decision to sell at costco.com was to provide a low cost quality market share for Watkins manufacturing and increase profits and revenue to discern if specialty retailers are in fact needed, OH CRAP, did I say that out loud?!
Bingo!!!!!!!......a test balloon to see if it floats....with all respect to the Hot Springs folks here....I have to think one tough hurdle that I also know has many perks as well... Is being owned by the Mass-co corp they simply have keep working to keep Wal- Street happy and I am sure that in doing so at times.....they do somethings that rub you guys the wrong way....but again I know there is also a upside to it as well.....
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Yeah, I'd love to see their reply. Uh, well ,um er....the decision to sell at costco.com was to provide a low cost quality market share for Watkins manufacturing and increase profits and revenue to discern if specialty retailers are in fact needed, OH CRAP, did I say that out loud?!
Hey, who do you work for again. You may be treading on dangerous ground ;D
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Bingo...
I love that song! Everybody now, B...I...N...G...O ;D
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Let's just wait to see what happens. I'm sure the dealer wants to take care of Anoroc as much as we want him to find satisfaction. I'm sure it will work out for the best.
Terminator
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Let's just wait to see what happens. I'm sure the dealer wants to take care of Anoroc as much as we want him to find satisfaction. I'm sure it will work out for the best.
Terminator
Easy for you to say, you gun totin' weirdo.
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Received call from Mario the RSM and Anthony the local sales rep. They have made the following offer to me:
100% credit toward any spa I want to order from them. They will allow me to continue using my spa untill the one I order arrives at which time they will swap the spas out.
The prices on the new spa will not be jacked up. I confirmed their everyday prices last week and again today and they are the same. The prices seem to be fair.
I got a pretty good deal on the Jetsetter so I will have to pay to upgrade but I think that all things considering the offer is fair.
From a customer service perspective the sales person will be my point of contact on any future service issues and they assure me that going forward they will be more responsive to my calls.
The only additional request I will make is that at the time of delivery that this time they actually fill my spa, plug it in and make sure it's running before they leave my home instead of just dropping it off and leaving.
I am happy with the results and I must say that when it is all said and done, the RSM was, IMO, instrumental in making this happen.
Anoroc ;D ;D ;D ;D
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I just love happy endings! Hot Springs came through for you and that is what is important..sometimes talking to the right people makes all the difference ;D I'm guessing your wife is real happy too ;)
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She's a bit skeptical yet and not too excited that we will probably pay a bit more for the next spa but we did get a real good deal on this one on clearance.
But she is happy that we are able to change spas. :)
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Wow, what a ride. Been lurking watching what's gone on. Happy to see some resolution for you. I did offer my condolences to you in one of my posts in the costco subject. Most of the other dealers said what i would have. They just type quicker. Good luck.
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Sounds like an excellent resolution. Kudos to Mario.
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Mario is good people. I was there when he proposed to his lovely bride.
8)
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Thanks...
Now I have to make a decison. I am leaning towards a Vangaurd or an Envoy. Does anyone have opinions on which has the strongest jets.
I am planning on wet testing both of them. I also understand that the Vanguard does not come with the Tri x Filters. Is this right?
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So what tub are you gonna get? I love my Envoy... highly reccomend it. :)
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So what tub are you gonna get? I love my Envoy... highly reccomend it. :)
Can you tell my what you like about it. Are you tall so that the foot jets on the lounger work for you.
I am about 5foot 7 (not quite) so not sure if the lounger is too long for me.
What did you like over the Vanguard?
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I just love happy endings!
Sounds like chick a flick! I say we cast this sucker into a major motion picture movie:
Anaroc: Ryan Seacrest (or Ricky Martin or whoever it is he thinks he looks like)
Mrs. Anaroc: Meg Ryan (obviously since she can cry up a storm)
Terminator: Michael Chiklis (actor from "The Shield")
HS dealer: The soup Nazi from Seinfeld ("no new spa for you, NEXT")
Mario the RSM: Dr Phil ("Sometimes you make the right decision, sometimes you make the decision right.")
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LOL ;D ;D
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Mario has a good reputation here. I wonder if he is really "The Spa Fairy" under cover. ;D
Mario is good people. I was there when he proposed to his lovely bride.
8)
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Mario has a good reputation here. I wonder if he is really "The Spa Fairy" under cover. ;D
I don't believe Mario has ever been on the site till I let him know about it. For that matter now my dealer is probably going to monitor this site from time to time.
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I never tested the Vanguard, so I can't compare them. I got my tub slightly used, so the deal that I got on it took away all competitors basically.
I'm 5'1" about 120lbs, J is 5'11" 135lbs. He is slightly tall for the lounger, I am slightly short... however we both love it and use it nightly. I do tend to float a bit in a few of the seats, but I just modify how I sit in them. I've only wet tested a few tubs and I float in all I've tested, so it isn't a big deal to me. The only seat in the tub I don't love is the the soothing sevens seat. That one doesn't get used except by the kids (which actually works well as it won't knock them over like the others can). J and I rotate through the other seats nightly. I love the one between the 2 corner seats, it pounds the crap out of my shoulders. I also like the foot massage from there. My only complaint is that you can't do both at the same time. The only seat J doesn't really find comfortable is the corner seat with the wrist jets. He really prefers the other corner seat.
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Thanks for the reply on the Envoy. I will need to do some additional research on this. I have heard others comment on the fact that the diverter valve on the Envoy are both located on the same side so it makes it hard to switch if you are in one of the corner chairs.
I will plan on wet testing though. :)
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I think you should tell them you want a Costco Highlife! ;D
Sorry, I couldn't resist!!!
Congrats! I'm glad it is working out for you!
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Yes, the valves are on the same side (next to the lounger). It has never been a problem for us because one of us is always in the lounger and will adjust it when needed.
One thing I do like about the lounger is that I use it as a cool down seat by sitting on the knee part, and then get the best foot massage. I really like the power of the foot jets.
The wet test will make your decision easy I think.
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I'm 5'1" about 120lbs, J is 5'11" 135lbs.
Wow, someone get that guy a sandwhich. I think of myself as being in decent shape yet I'm 1" shorter and 50 lbs heavier!
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Wow, someone get that guy a sandwhich. I think of myself as being in decent shape yet I'm 1" shorter and 50 lbs heavier!
I had exactly the same thought when I read that! I'm 5'12" ( ;D ) and 175ish and people think I'm skinny. 135 would require both legs to be amputated and then I wouldn't be 5'12" any more...
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Good for you.....enjoy the new spa.....
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I think you'll prefer the envoy.
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I am very happy that this worked out for you!
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!yovnE eht evol lliw ouy, corona!!!
rotanimreT
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Gee, that's funny.....I admitted to being unreasonable more than most here, and my opinion on the "fix" would be either 100% credit toward the same or upgraded tub...
I worked this week, haven't been online.....and VOILA!
congrats on getting a great solution for you and your wife!
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Ok so here's the thing. If i upgrade to the Envoy the total additional cost for me including tax is $4,222.
This does not include coverlifter or any accessories. They sell those individually.
That's a big bullet to bite so I have got to give this some thought.
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MY opinion is:
You bought your original spa because you liked it. Get a new replacement spa and call it even. If it were $100 to $500, I'd say OK maybe - But $4000+ ... NO WAY.
We all want bigger and better, I know there are times when I wished I bought Artesian's top of the line Piper Glen, but the reality of it is the extra $3000 didn't sit well with me and would have gone over like a lead balloon with my wife AND I am happy with my spa.
Just my $0.02!
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1) What about the Sovereign. Wouldn't be as big a price jump?
2) Buy it in Texas with a prescription and pay no sales tax! :D
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Get the one you want because it will be the last one you'll ever have to buy.
Terminator
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I have heard others comment on the fact that the diverter valve on the Envoy are both located on the same side so it makes it hard to switch if you are in one of the corner chairs.
I will plan on wet testing though. :)
We normally leave the diverters in the 6 0'clock position, giving power to every seat unless we need an extra boost. We find that equal power is usually fine. Especially since after a year and a half we still use every seat.
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What's that saying?
"Buy the best and you only cry once."
Get the one you want because it will be the last one you'll ever have to buy.
Terminator
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My favorite is "The bitter taste of crap lingers long after the sweet smell of low price."
Terminator
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Anaroc, have you looked at the '06 Jetsetter? I am going to assume without reading this whole thing again, that you bought an '05 Jetsetter on clearance.
The '06 Jetsetter is a little bit bigger and now has a small cool down seat. Plus it now has the double Moto Massage. You might be able to get this with very little difference in cost.
Also look at the Accolade. It is a four person with no lounger, has the water feature and is very powerful. You might really like that one.
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Ok so here's the thing. If i upgrade to the Envoy the total additional cost for me including tax is $4,222.
This does not include coverlifter or any accessories. They sell those individually.
That's a big bullet to bite so I have got to give this some thought.
Doesn't sound to me like they are doing much to make things right or earn your business and future referals of others for their store or the brand. Between the dealer and the manufacturer I would think they could make you a better deal than essantially charging you full price on the trade up.
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My favorite is "The bitter taste of crap lingers long after the sweet smell of low price."
Terminator
Followed by " You can put a piece of sh*t in a box and give it a lifetime warranty, but you still just have a piece of sh*t in a box."
Ya gotta love Chris Farley ;D
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Ok so here's the thing. If i upgrade to the Envoy the total additional cost for me including tax is $4,222.
This does not include coverlifter or any accessories. They sell those individually.
That's a big bullet to bite so I have got to give this some thought.
Talk about the "SCAM" of the century. I'll bet that it cost H.S. about $3000.00 to produce that spa. tack on $300 for shipping $300 for delivery. They just covered all the cost of a new one "out of your pocket" and they have an 05 jet setter that they will sell for $500 or $1000 off. How did this turn into them making MORE money off of your problems.
In the words of Nancy Regan "Just Say No", to H.S. Kool Aid!
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This does not include coverlifter or any accessories. They sell those individually.
Except for the ozone, which is included on '06 models, cover which comes with all models, delivery, and removal of the old spa.
You certainly could ask for a Cover Cradle to be included (and installed) - the worst they can do is say no, and you might get it.
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Talk about the "SCAM" of the century. I'll bet that it cost H.S. about $3000.00 to produce that spa. tack on $300 for shipping $300 for delivery. They just covered all the cost of a new one "out of your pocket" and they have an 05 jet setter that they will sell for $500 or $1000 off. How did this turn into them making MORE money off of your problems.
In the words of Nancy Regan "Just Say No", to H.S. Kool Aid!
Have to agree. You have already paid for the spa, 5K was it? Then you give them back your spa and they "recondition" it for sale to the next poor sap, umm I mean valued customer, for maybe 2K over what they have in it for repair work (just guessing at numbers here but that seems conservative). Thats 7K for that one spa even if that is all they get for it the second time around.
Then they want to charge you another 4K for an Envoy? That is then worth 11K in their pocket at that point for the two spas. May not be their usual profit point but I doubt they are losing anything, except perhaps your future business.
Yeah, that seems fair for all your trouble...
One would hope that would just try to cover their basic costs at this point but it doesn't seem that way. Probably can't now but if you could get a full refund for your lemon flavored spa I would run, not walk, outta there and find another dealer and brand to gamble on.
Or maybe it is time to do what Term suggested and make a spectacle of yourself out in front of the store!
Or depending on how big a market you are in perhaps the local news channels has one of those obnoxious consumer affairs reporters who might be interested in making a spectacle of it for you on the news...
:P
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Anorac,
Here is my proposal for you. I didnt even sell you the spa but I'll do the warranty for you. You give me $4225 and throw in your lemon spa and I'll give you an eight thousand dollar spa right now. Then you won't get stuck with another Hot springs. You think I'm joking but I'm dead serious
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Then you won't get stuck with another Hot springs. You think I'm joking but I'm dead serious
Nice Micah. ::)
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Every industry has it's ambulance chasers. ::)
Terminator
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The convoluted logic and anger here amaze me. The dealer, not Hot Spring (from input from RSM Mario) agrees to customer's request to replace spa. Customer chooses to upgrade. That is the Scam of the Century.
I think I am seeing bitter responses from dealers who would not offer their customer such a deal...could it be their spas would have little resale value after 6 months of use?
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The convoluted logic and anger here amaze me. The dealer, not Hot Spring (from input from RSM Mario) agrees to customer's request to replace spa. Customer chooses to upgrade. That is the Scam of the Century.
I think I am seeing bitter responses from dealers who would not offer their customer such a deal...could it be their spas would have little resale value after 6 months of use?
Please keep in mind, The HS dealer, nor HS, made no offers to appease or satisfy the customer until AFTER Anorac experienced several problems and was driven by frustration in his being ignored by time delays that contributed to the problem.
This is all about how a petty problem grew into a bigger problem and still nobody wants to belly up to the bar and satisfy the customer. The cost of doing so would have been far less costly than the impressions given in this thread.
Anorac's problems have been simple but yet they have been handled in a manner that did not put the fire out and the final soultion has yet to be determined.
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Please keep in mind, The HS dealer, nor HS, made no offers to appease or satisfy the customer until AFTER Anorac experienced several problems and was driven by frustration in his being ignored by time delays that contributed to the problem.
This is all about how a petty problem grew into a bigger problem and still nobody wants to belly up to the bar and satisfy the customer. The cost of doing so would have been far less costly than the impressions given in this thread.
Anorac's problems have been simple but yet they have been handled in a manner that did not put the fire out and the final soultion has yet to be determined.
I believe that after Anoroc contacted the RSM Mario(which I'm sure was the first time Watkins was aware of his situation), which was on a Friday, and there was some sort of resolution by that Mon or Tuesday. Sound like great reaction time from the MFG to me. Yeah, it unfortunate the dealer dropped the ball from the get go, but even the Yankees only win the World Series 1/4 of the time. ;D
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Anaroc, have you looked at the '06 Jetsetter? I am going to assume without reading this whole thing again, that you bought an '05 Jetsetter on clearance.
The '06 Jetsetter is a little bit bigger and now has a small cool down seat. Plus it now has the double Moto Massage. You might be able to get this with very little difference in cost.
Also look at the Accolade. It is a four person with no lounger, has the water feature and is very powerful. You might really like that one.
I am considering the new jetsetter. It would cost me an extra $800 plus tax.
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Doesn't sound to me like they are doing much to make things right or earn your business and future referals of others for their store or the brand. Between the dealer and the manufacturer I would think they could make you a better deal than essantially charging you full price on the trade up.
I don't think I can press much further. I feel pretty lucky I get my 100% credit back. It would be nice to negotiate and I may still try at the very end but they made it sound like I had to pay their everday prices.
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The convoluted logic and anger here amaze me. The dealer, not Hot Spring (from input from RSM Mario) agrees to customer's request to replace spa. Customer chooses to upgrade. That is the Scam of the Century.
I think I am seeing bitter responses from dealers who would not offer their customer such a deal...could it be their spas would have little resale value after 6 months of use?
They agreed to give me 100% credit toward a new spa not to replace my spa with another jetsetter. I received the one I have on clearance for $4930 plus tax. The new Jetsetter is $5800 plus tax so I would have to pay the upgrade.
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I believe that after Anoroc contacted the RSM Mario(which I'm sure was the first time Watkins was aware of his situation), which was on a Friday, and there was some sort of resolution by that Mon or Tuesday. Sound like great reaction time from the MFG to me. Yeah, it unfortunate the dealer dropped the ball from the get go, but even the Yankees only win the World Series 1/4 of the time. ;D
I contacted RSM on a Monday and they made me an offer on Thursday afternoon. Not so bad all things considering.
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I contacted RSM on a Monday and they made me an offer on Thursday afternoon. Not so bad all things considering.
Friday to Monday...Monday to Thursday... Same difference. ;D
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I am truly surprised that any dealer/ manufacturer would offer 100% trade in value, even with the number of problems you experienced! Most that I deal with, would not even entertain this thought. They would rather go to court, than do what is right.
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I am truly surprised that any dealer/ manufacturer would offer 100% trade in value, even with the number of problems you experienced! Most that I deal with, would not even entertain this thought. They would rather go to court, than do what is right.
I am also doubtful another dealer/manufacturer would have made me the offer.
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You are both incorrect. 5 years ago I sold a Jacuzzi® Laser[size=10]tm[/size] Plus. This spa was frought with problems, a true lemon. The cusomer was patient and understanding as I worked, under warranty, through all his issues. The last straw came on July 4 2002. His spa tripped the gfci and his spa obviously went down. This customer had my cell # which under his circumstances I was glad to provide. So you can imagine how pissed off I was that this MFing piece of $#!t was down AGAIN, and ON JULY 4! I went to his house, fixed his spa for the umpteenth time and traced down my rep at the grocery store where he was buying brats and burgers for the days festivities. I, not so calmly, explaind this guys situation and the fact that he's going to have 40 guests at his house where he will show them all the piece of crap hot tub he owns. (customers words) This is when Jacuzzi was transitioning over from JWB to JPS. This customer was provided a brand new J-360 (now the J-355) at ZERO charge to the customer. No shipping, no restock, nada, of course I provided the reinstall, also at no charge, however the customer did have a few beers ready, but I digress. Suffice it to say, Watkins Mfg. is FAR from the be all end all that it is touted as 'round here and far from the only company that is concerned with customer satisfaction.
I am also doubtful another dealer/manufacturer would have made me the offer.
I am truly surprised that any dealer/ manufacturer would offer 100% trade in value, even with the number of problems you experienced! Most that I deal with, would not even entertain this thought. They would rather go to court, than do what is right.
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. This customer was provided a brand new J-360 (now the J-355) at ZERO charge to the customer. No shipping, no restock, nada, of course I provided the reinstall, also at no charge, however the customer did have a few beers ready, but I digress. Suffice it to say, Watkins Mfg. is FAR from the be all end all that it is touted as 'round here and far from the only company that is concerned with customer satisfaction.
That is impressive. I take back what I said. :)
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This is when Jacuzzi was transitioning over from JWB to JPS. This customer was provided a brand new J-360 (now the J-355) at ZERO charge to the customer. No shipping, no restock, nada, of course I provided the reinstall, also at no charge, however the customer did have a few beers ready, but I digress. Suffice it to say, Watkins Mfg. is FAR from the be all end all that it is touted as 'round here and far from the only company that is concerned with customer satisfaction.
Just doesn't seem unreasonable to get a similar resolution in your case. Instead you are being charged to replace your jetsetter with a new one. I would be OK if they replaced it with a new '05 jetsetter but if one is not available then a new '06 seems the next best option. Instead you are being charged the difference, even if it is just a few hundred dollars.
Yes, I know the dealer probably has a tight margin and quite frankly I think the manufacturer should reimburse the dealer for any loss, if there is any. But just seems a little petty under the circumstances to get charged more in this case as I read it. And would be the last time I did business with that brand. Had it been handled as described above would be more likely to make me a loyal brand customer who would refer others to the brand and the dealer.
That's the real difference to me. No doubt some think I am being unrealistic. Perhaps so but there you have it. Only real manner I have available to express my opinion in this kind of situation is with my wallet.
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Wisoki is correct. When I had to replace a spa for a customer Jacuzzi Paid for the shipping and gave me $300 for the swap out. Good customer service would be a strait trade. The wholesale cost of the spa may have gone up $150 - $200. The dealer could offer to eat that and do the install himself. Imagine all the good pub a company would get for saying "we are so sorry you got this lemon, Please accept this replacement free of charge"
P.S. If they had done that even I would have sang there praise
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As an industry veteran I can say there are a handful of manufacturers who will go to such steps. Watkins is one. Jauczzi/Sundance is another. (We have sold for both).
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I thought the offer was for a new Jetsetter or an upgrade.
HS should offer you an '06 jetsetter free of charge ... PERIOD. The dealer should eat any additional costs that HS deems necessary due to his/her lack of support.
I would expect what Wisoki said about Jacuzzi is what HS would do. HS is pulling a fast one, great company ... yeah right.
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I thought the offer was for a new Jetsetter or an upgrade.
HS should offer you an '06 jetsetter free of charge ... PERIOD. The dealer should eat any additional costs that HS deems necessary due to his/her lack of support.
I would expect what Wisoki said about Jacuzzi is what HS would do. HS is pulling a fast one, great company ... yeah right.
Honestly, the full credit is more than I thoght they would even do for me. The new Jetsetter is a bit bigger and now has ozone as well so it is not exactly what I currently have. They even got rid of the soothing seven and replaced and reconfigured the jets.
There new price is $5800 bucks vs. the $4900 i paid so it probaly isn't too bad considering the modifications.
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. HS is pulling a fast one, great company ... yeah right.
Hey Vinny, did Watkins offend you in the past somehow?
I guess they could have done what your MFG did, and given Anoroc 6 control panels and 17 air control valves to get him off there back, like they did with you and your jets. Instead, they're trying to what is best for both parties.
The new jetsetter is much different then the old. You can't expect a straight swap. What they are asking is not unreasonable.
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OK, The purpose of my post was not to say Jacuzzi good, Watkins bad (what ever "I" might believe). My point was to demonstrate that watkins isn't the only company that would take back a lemon after somebody posted that they doubted any other company would do such. However, (I love that word) Jacuzzi did repace a 1.5 year old spa with a brand spankin' new one that was significantly more expensive, with, as I said before, no additional cost to me or the customer. Also, if any body doubt the validity of my story, they can call mr. lalonde in kokomo IN and ask the customer himself. He has become my best customer for referals. Just tell him Frank said it was ok to call.
Honestly, the full credit is more than I thoght they would even do for me. The new Jetsetter is a bit bigger and now has ozone as well so it is not exactly what I currently have. They even got rid of the soothing seven and replaced and reconfigured the jets.
There new price is $5800 bucks vs. the $4900 i paid so it probaly isn't too bad considering the modifications.
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I am truly surprised that any dealer/ manufacturer would offer 100% trade in value, even with the number of problems you experienced! Most that I deal with, would not even entertain this thought. They would rather go to court, than do what is right.
I think that tends to be the "deep pocket" corporate mentality to intimidate a consumer and their situation. But, the quicker a company placates the consumer and leaves them happy, the less noise the squeeky wheel makes. That is why I believe smaller, privately owned manufacturers are more receptive to satisfying customers, when the large corporate machine tends to be far too busy for such trivial affairs, as they more commonly shovel the problem off onto the dealer as an independent business they tend to dominate and control.
The dealer has a great level of influence with the outcome of the situation as he represents both parties and possesses the power to make SOME things happen.
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Hey Vinny, did Watkins offend you in the past somehow?
I guess they could have done what your MFG did, and given Anoroc 6 control panels and 17 air control valves to get him off there back, like they did with you and your jets. Instead, they're trying to what is best for both parties.
The new jetsetter is much different then the old. You can't expect a straight swap. What they are asking is not unreasonable.
Are you Anoroc's dealer?
Would this issue gotten this far if he was?
Why have a HS customer pay anything for the HS/Dealer screwup?
What "penalty" is the dealer getting for screwing up a HS customer. Why shouldn't the dealer suffer?
Why should a HS customer with bad service have to pay anything to HS or the dealer for the same tab?
ALL of the HS dealers on here constantly say how great HS is in the customer service area.
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Vinny, thats because HotSprings is more than just nice!
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Why should a HS customer with bad service have to pay anything to HS or the dealer for the same tab?
I certainly haven't read this entire thread (I'm waiting for teh Cliff notes). I thought he was getting full credit?
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I am amazed by the responses.
Customer gets a bad tub. company tries to fix it a few times.
Currently the tub is running and the company has fufilled it's obligaton to the customer.
Customer says he's uncomfortable with the tub and asks for a new one.
After kicking it around, the Manfucature says, You're right. We want you to be happy. Pick out a new tub. We'll give you 100% Credit.
Customer is thrilled.
Members here complain.
??? ??? ??? ???
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Back of with the generalities beeeeeeotch, or what ever. ;)
I am amazed by the responses.
Customer gets a bad tub. company tries to fix it a few times.
Currently the tub is running and the company has fufilled it's obligaton to the customer.
Customer says he's uncomfortable with the tub and asks for a new one.
After kicking it around, the Manfucature says, You're right. We want you to be happy. Pick out a new tub. We'll give you 100% Credit.
Customer is thrilled.
Members here complain.
??? ??? ??? ???
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Are you Anoroc's dealer?
Would this issue gotten this far if he was?
Why have a HS customer pay anything for the HS/Dealer screwup?
What "penalty" is the dealer getting for screwing up a HS customer. Why shouldn't the dealer suffer?
Why should a HS customer with bad service have to pay anything to HS or the dealer for the same tab?
ALL of the HS dealers on here constantly say how great HS is in the customer service area.
No, I am not Anorocs dealer...
My tech would have fixed it right the first time.
A new Jetsetter is not the same as the old.
And if the customer himself is satisfied with the remedy, what gives?
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And if the customer himself is satisfied with the remedy, what gives?
I know I'm not as nice as Anoroc.
Yes, it's great that he's getting a full "refund" but he has to spend more money than he had to originally. I don't know his financial situation nor do you. Maybe he's forced to sink another $800 to whatever and doesn't have it or he can be a multi-millionaire. I'd be hard pressed to come up with another $1000 after spending $7K last year - would you? That's without any of the prep work that isn't added to that $7K figure.
As I see it, they have him by the ba**s. I personally don't like to be in that situation - do you? That's my issue! Maybe as a dealer you see it as a great situation to be in but as a consumer I don't. Maybe the solution was to just fix the tub and extend the warranty by 6 months.
The dealer screwed up ... does the dealer lose the HS dealership because of it? What exactly does the dealer lose in this situation? Does the dealer lose $800 or whatever that the customer loses - I would venture to say the dealer loses NOTHING! Please tell me what exactly is going to happen to the dealer because of this?
I can't compare my experience with Artesian with Anoroc's experience with HS. You're absolutely right - I got just stinking jets - 15 of them. I didn't need service to come out and everytime I called my dealer for a broken jet, I had it in a week.
I don't know if my dealer will be good or bad when it comes to a service call other than my jets AND I don't know what Artesian would do if it got to their level.
I am a repair tech myself and people call me when they've had enough - like I said - I can be a not so nice person. My customer is treated like gold by me and I do give them things as a "sorry" when my staff or myself screws up - which as humans we all do.
I personally think it's a half a$$ gesture. You're also correct - I am too involved in Anoroc's problem!
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I personally think it's a half a$$ gesture. You're also correct - I am too involved in Anoroc's problem!
Vinny, thanks for the support and your comments. I am prepared to move forward on this as it stands. I wish my dealer had offered to give my a sweeter deal on a new spa or on an upgrade but at the same token I do have the opportunity to get into a new spa.
Perhaps I could have negotiated things differently but I think that time has passed. I was offered the credit to apply to their everday prices.
They are having a sale this comining weekend so I am planning on making my decision and buying the spa this weekend so as to benefit from any deals. I don't think they could decline me a deal they are making to everyone else that day.
Thanks again.
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I am amazed by the responses.
Customer gets a bad tub. company tries to fix it a few times.
Currently the tub is running and the company has fufilled it's obligaton to the customer.
Customer says he's uncomfortable with the tub and asks for a new one.
After kicking it around, the Manfucature says, You're right. We want you to be happy. Pick out a new tub. We'll give you 100% Credit.
Customer is thrilled.
Members here complain.
??? ??? ??? ???
Drew you nailed it......Things that make a person go hmmmmmm??
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I am amazed by the responses.
Customer gets a bad tub. company tries to fix it a few times.
Currently the tub is running and the company has fufilled it's obligaton to the customer.
Customer says he's uncomfortable with the tub and asks for a new one.
After kicking it around, the Manfucature says, You're right. We want you to be happy. Pick out a new tub. We'll give you 100% Credit.
Customer is thrilled.
Members here complain.
??? ??? ??? ???
Perhaps Anoroc is thrilled, I can't speak for him. I can make my own interpretation reading between the lines and that interpretation is that he has been beaten into submission and at this point is just ready to move because as another poster pointed out he is already into this purchase for a lot of money.
I am not entirely convinced the tub is working correctly at this point and it certainly doesn't have any degree of reliability that I would want to count on in the future based on what I have read here. In one post he noted the poor positioning of the diverters that a HS sales person here (term) noted as unacceptable I believe.
I can only respond from my own perspective. I might well be beaten into submission at this point as well. But I would definitely not be "thrilled".
And I would probably take what I could get at this point. But I wouldn't be likely to say much postive about HS or this dealer at this point.
And perhaps this offer is truly much better than what a lot of other dealers and manufacturers would have done. Maybe even better than my own though I hope to never have to find out. But being better than what others might do does not make this situation good. At best it makes it "less bad".
In my opinion and mine alone of course.
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Anoroc, I'd like to say that it has been a bumpy ride these past few days and alot has been said. In the end, we ( as a group) hope that things work out for you and that these issues do not arise again. ( and if I were a bettin man, I'd bet the farm, OK Term's farm, that they will not. ;) )
Keep us posted. :)
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Would it really be that unreasonable for him to ask for a 2006 Jetsetter- just an exchange? Doesn't a warranty mean that your item is guaranteed to perform as promised? His did not. Sure, if HS had an '05 sitting around, it would be reasonable for them to want to replace his "lemon" with the leftover '05. But if they do not (I assume), it seems that they ought to put something in his yard to as closely resemble the tub that he purchased, with no further skin off his nose.
Now, if instead of an exchange, he wanted to upgrade, then it would make sense that he could only apply the purchased amount towards a tub.
I dont think this is coming out of left field: several years ago I had a Gortex backpacking jacket from REI. It had a lifetime warranty for being waterproof. Spending about $130-150 on that was a big deal to me as a college student. After about 5 years, it was NOT waterproof. I took it back, expecting some sort of run around, or maybe just the cash equivalent of what I paid 5 years earlier at best, but instead I was given a brand new jacket, retailing at just over $200.
I never shop for outdoor equipment anywhere else.
He bought a jetsetter- he should have a jetsetter. Anything else is wormy.
Maybe we are all too involved with Anorac's dilemma- but isn't it just because we wonder what we would do in his shoes, and we're pissed on his behaf?
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I am going through the same sort of thing with an Artesian right now. I only hope they handle it as HS did. So far my dealer has done little to satisfy us. Will wait and see i guess.
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Anne,
That's my sentiments exactly, of course you said it a lot less wordier than I.
BTW, I have a Campmor Goretex jacket that did the same thing and they replaced it also. I love that jacket of course now it's a bit too small due to molecular resizing! ;D It even has under arm pit zips!!
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I am going through the same sort of thing with an Artesian right now. I only hope they handle it as HS did. So far my dealer has done little to satisfy us. Will wait and see i guess.
OK, who is this planted person! ;D
Actually what's going on?
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OK, who is this planted person! ;D
Actually what's going on?
Vinny,
Looks legit if you look at the Jenny's previous posts that stated late last year saying they got an Artesian. Let's hope all goes well for her. If not, I know a good recipe for crow pie. ;)
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I am legit but am waiting to hear from the dealer before looking for advice. So far doesn't seem that dealer really is too concerned with the issues. But we feel we got a lemon.
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Would it really be that unreasonable for him to ask for a 2006 Jetsetter- just an exchange? Doesn't a warranty mean that your item is guaranteed to perform as promised? His did not.
Now, if instead of an exchange, he wanted to upgrade, then it would make sense that he could only apply the purchased amount towards a tub.
I dont think this is coming out of left field: several years ago I had a Gortex backpacking jacket from REI. It had a lifetime warranty for being waterproof. Spending about $130-150 on that was a big deal to me as a college student. After about 5 years, it was NOT waterproof. I took it back, expecting some sort of run around, or maybe just the cash equivalent of what I paid 5 years earlier at best, but instead I was given a brand new jacket, retailing at just over $200.
A warranty does not mean an item is guaranteed to operate as promised, it means if it doesn't, (In the case of a HS warranty)that item will be fixed properly. There in lays the problem that Anoroc had with his dealer. Comparing a jacket that cost $10 to make in Malaysia can't compare to this situation. I understand the similarities behind your situation and Anorocs, and the two seem that they will work out in a similar fashion. ;)
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I am legit but am waiting to hear from the dealer before looking for advice. So far doesn't seem that dealer really is too concerned with the issues. But we feel we got a lemon.
The dealer took jenny's money just like the dealer took Anoroc's money. They both bought product that has been well time tested and really should not have any unusual problems.
However, when a problem or should I say symptom is encountered, it is the dealoers responsibility to be pro active and investigate the issue. IF the dealer is not pro active the problem will get bigger in the mind of the consumer and it will advance to the "lemon" stage because of disappointment and imagination.
The dealer should be out the in both instances, ivestigate, identify, communicate, correct and IF necessary replace what ever it take to leave that customer HAPPY, IN HOT WATER AND LOVING IT.
It is lack of interest or concern on the part of the dealer that results in the time delay that causes the real problem to get bigger and bigger. The dealer is the first line of defense for the manufacture for issues relating to quality control and product performance.
Unfortunately, some dealers have a different attitude, are naieve, or don't think they need to do much and this then becomes a reflection on the brand and the consumers choice that begins to fester "buyer's remorse". That is where "lemons" come from.
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Vinny,
Looks legit if you look at the Jenny's previous posts that stated late last year saying they got an Artesian. Let's hope all goes well for her. If not, I know a good recipe for crow pie. ;)
How much of that pie do I have to eat ... :o
... I never pitted Artesian against HS. In this whole thread I never initiated a comparison, I only answered the comparison when it was brought to my attention. How much did it cost Artesian to give me those jets? Probably about $75 (wholesale price - $5 each??). How much would it cost me to buy those jets after the warranty runs out? Probably about $450 (retail for $30 each). How much more does it cost HS to make the new Jetsetter and we know it's another $800 retail. So I got $450/$800 or about a 56% difference in what Anoroc is getting.
I did request my dealer to replace all the jets that I had a problem with and she said no. OK, if my problem goes away I'm OK ... then the last jet broke and I had enough and I called Artesian. I took matters into my own hands with good results.
As far as other people's dealings with Artesian ... I can't say how it will turn out ... and never have!
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he has been beaten into submission
Anoroc, HAVE you been beaten into submission by the Customer Service Squad?
Their usual method is to lock you into a room with Mario where he will work you over pretty good with a 3' length of rubber ozone tubing and then rub chlorine into your open wounds. If that doesn't work, they strap a SpAudio to the side of your head and play "Afternoon Delight" by Starland Vocal Band over and over and over. If you still haven't submitted, they pin your eyelids open and force you to read the book "How to Buy a Spa" by the Spa Specialist until your brain melts.
Don't let it come to that.....
Terminator
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Anoroc, I hope what ever happens, happens fast(er). 13 pages 185 (86 counting mine) posts, sheesh. Hey Watkins....Git er dun. YEAH, I SAID IT!
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Gonna find my baby, gonna hold her tight,
gonna grab some afternoon delight...
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Crow pie is not that appetizing in spite of what you may have read or been lead to believe. Possum pie, on the other hand, can be quite tasty if it is prepared properly.
Terminator
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How much of that pie do I have to eat ... :o
... I never pitted Artesian against HS.
...and for good reason. Both seem to be dealer issues. We talk about how it's important to feel comfortable with your dealer because you may need them after the sale. The word "lemon" gets thrown around like a football but it's difficult to truly call something a lemon when part of the issue is the dealer not getting on the ball (or understanding how) to straighten out the matter and you have to seriously put forth the effort before you throw your hands up in the air and say "unfixable product". These people deserve a replacement more for the manner in which their issues have been ignored than because the product is a "lemon".
BTW Vinny, here is the info you were looking for. ;)
http://www.recipecottage.com/variety-meats/crow-pie.html
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A warranty does not mean an item is guaranteed to operate as promised, it means if it doesn't, (In the case of a HS warranty)that item will be fixed properly. There in lays the problem that Anoroc had with his dealer. Comparing a jacket that cost $10 to make in Malaysia can't compare to this situation. I understand the similarities behind your situation and Anorocs, and the two seem that they will work out in a similar fashion. ;)
Granted,a $200 jacket cannot be compared to a 6K spa, but the amount that it cost HS to make his faulty '05 jetsetter, compared to the cost for them to make an '06 to replace it with should be negligable in the face of needing to treat this customer well. At least I'd think that to be true for HS- big company? more spas sold than anyone else? Isn't that what I keep hearing?
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Well, hopefully Anoroc is happy with the final HS "fix". I know we've all got ideas on how things SHOULD be, and some are easier to satisfy than others, but, in the end, if the resolution is one that works for the particular person, that's what counts.
I can see paying and extra $800 for a current model tub, as opposed to paying less for one that's last year's model.....I can also see where some members have gotten up in arms over paying ANYTHING extra to get the new tub, as it's a like model replacement for the one that's gone south....I'm really not sure what my take on the matter would be, I think it really would depend on how the dealer was. One that was on top of things, always trying to help, I'd be more likely to drop the extra cash without regret....however, if the dealer was pokey, and wasn't there when needed, I'd be more inclined to demand THEY do more than I. There's also a middle ground on this, though...instead of paying full upgrade price, ask the dealer to meet you halfway. That way, they're not biting the entire cost, nor are you, and maybe it'll help them to remember that the customer is why they're in business......
but of course, that's just my $.02.......
(Sorry, I've mellowed the last few days....work does that to me. ;) )
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Now, if instead of an exchange, he wanted to upgrade, then it would make sense that he could only apply the purchased amount towards a tub.
He bought a jetsetter- he should have a jetsetter. Anything else is wormy.
AGREE...
wmccall...isn't it time to move this thread?
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Vinny,
Looks legit if you look at the Jenny's previous posts that stated late last year saying they got an Artesian. Let's hope all goes well for her. If not, I know a good recipe for crow pie. ;)
I looked and can't find anything although I saw something about a dynabright light but it must be more serious than that.
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I am legit but am waiting to hear from the dealer before looking for advice. So far doesn't seem that dealer really is too concerned with the issues. But we feel we got a lemon.
Has the dealer or spa manufacturer resolved your issue to your satisfaction? It's been a while and I'm curious to hear the outcome.
Terminator
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Has the dealer or spa manufacturer resolved your issue to your satisfaction? It's been a while and I'm curious to hear the outcome.
Terminator
I think Vinny sent one of his boys over to silence her!
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I think Vinny sent one of his boys over to silence her!
Nah, the only boys I got are ages 11 and 15. AND remember this Italian repairs medical equipment ... I'm not in concrete or garbage collection!! ;)
Besides Italians don't silence people we wack people! ;D
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Besides that it's Sicilians, like my Ma. Northern Italians are slang for vaginas.
Nah, the only boys I got are ages 11 and 15. AND remember this Italian repairs medical equipment ... I'm not in concrete or garbage collection!! ;)
Besides Italians don't silence people we wack people! ;D
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Besides that it's Sicilians, like my Ma. Northern Italians are slang for vaginas.
I am half Sicilian and being 100% Italian, I could have been a mobster! ;D Now, if you really piss me off, I could get my uncle to do some wacking ... remember I said I wasn't connected, I never said I didn't know anyone who's connected.
Remember in the Godfather the race horse scene, well that there is one pretty dog you got there! ;)
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Yeah, see being 50/50, Polish/Sicilian, I usualy just walk around with a dumb look on my face, but once I get pissed, LOOK OUT you're apt to find your fish drowned! So BACK OFF!
I am half Sicilian and being 100% Italian, I could have been a mobster! ;D Now, if you really piss me off, I could get my uncle to do some wacking ... remember I said I wasn't connected, I never said I didn't know anyone who's connected.
Remember in the Godfather the race horse scene, well that there is one pretty dog you got there! ;)
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Yeah, see being 50/50, Polish/Sicilian,
Careful, you'll whack yourself by mistake!
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Careful, you'll whack yourself by mistake!
LOL.
(and I'm polish).
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Careful, you'll whack yourself by mistake!
I'm also Polish/Italian and that's funny as SH##. ;D
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As I said, I'm Polish.
I'm a bit worried, as I found this in my wife's medicine cabinet. I think she might be planning something. If all of a sudden you guys don't hear from me, you'll know she did me in....
(http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j61/GodlikeMoron/remover.jpg)
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At least it's vanilla scented.
Terminator
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It aint no mistake pal, and git yer cameras outta my bathroom!
Careful, you'll whack yourself by mistake!
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You had to know somebody was going to go there.
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ROTFL....You guys!
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Sorry i have not updated. Apparently the dealer talked to Artesian and they didn't feel it warranted replacing the tub. Dealer came and fixed the problems and so far all is well. As long as everything is working i would rather put the troubles behind and enjoy the tub. Will i visit this dealer again? most likely not.