Hot Tub Forum
General => Beating a dead horse => Topic started by: jbalas on April 05, 2010, 03:38:12 pm
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My Coleman gave out after 20+ years and now I want to move to a smaller tub.
Looking at the Marquis Rendezvous and the Twilight (Master) TS 240.
Any opinions? Any other suggestions in the 3 person tub range?
jb
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My Coleman gave out after 20+ years and now I want to move to a smaller tub.
Looking at the Marquis Rendezvous and the Twilight (Master) TS 240.
Any opinions? Any other suggestions in the 3 person tub range?
jb
As far as Marquis goes, they have a good reputation and as for other suggestions, my personal favorites would include Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi and Sundance. All of those are FAR better choices than Master IMO and I could probably name another dozen I'd take before I'd even consider Master (do a search on them to see others posts about them). Go to the websites of each manufacturer you're interested in and see if they have someone in your area. Visit as many as you canto see what they have to offer, narrow your choices down to maybe the top 3 and wet test your top choices to see which is best for you.
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Stay away from Master!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Without even a second thought - Marquis. Hands down.
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I will say in my experience Marquis has excellent customer service and a great warranty. In addition, I have an outstanding dealer, which is also an important consideration. ;)
As far as Master, you can search and see that their sales tactics are pretty shady.
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Between the two, I would go with the Marquis, hands down imo. Another popular model to look at would be the Arctic Fox, by Arctic Spas. It is 86 x 69 x 39" tall, and it comfortably seats three people. One nice thing about the Fox is it still has nice depth to it with the 39" tall cabinet. Go to www.arcticspas.com (http://www.arcticspas.com) if you want some more information on that spa.
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I would run the opposite direction from the Master spa. I honestly don't know one person that bought one, most likely from a road show, that likes it after one year.
As a spa dealer, I get allot of calls where the consumer has no place to turn for help. Too many service issues and just about zero support, that's what I've seen. Hands down, Marquis is a better choice. As a matter of fact, IMO, just about every other brand is a better choice. OK, maybe that's a little harsch.
Hottubber1 8)
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Well, since Beerman has given you one brand to look at, you might as well have a list of other brands to consider.
First, Marquis is a fine brand. You won't have issues with them.
Other brands (in no order) to consider:
Sundance
Jacuzzi
Caldera
Hot Spring
Dimension One
Premium Leisure
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I would look at the Marquis if i had to choose between the two , Marquis is av ery good company, I am not a fan of Master especially with their traveling circus...but you may want to look at some other brands
D1
Sundance
Hot Springs
Caldera
H20
Jacuzzi
But if you are looking for a corner tub some of these guys do not have them, things to keep in mind the space size even though in corner you can use a rectangle spa for more comfort, most triangle spas are short,and not as comfortable,IMO. , but do some checking around, i would look for a smaller rectangle , may not take up any more space, and also not facing the corners......
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There is a lot of mud being thrown at Master Spas from their competitors but you should know the facts. Master Spas is one of the leading spa manufacturers in the world. Last year they won the Better Business Bureau’s Torch Award for marketplace ethics, they are a Consumer’s Digest Best Buy winner, they are SpaSearch Certified,, they won the Hot Tub industries top award, The INSPIRE Award , they have been on ABC’s Extreme Makeover, Home Edition several times and they are the hot tub company the Discovery Channel chose for their hit TV show “How it’s Made”. Master Spa’s CEO is on the board of the “International Hot Tub Association”.
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There is a lot of mud being thrown at Master Spas from their competitors but you should know the facts. Master Spas is one of the leading spa manufacturers in the world. Last year they won the Better Business Bureau’s Torch Award for marketplace ethics, they are a Consumer’s Digest Best Buy winner, they are SpaSearch Certified,, they won the Hot Tub industries top award, The INSPIRE Award , they have been on ABC’s Extreme Makeover, Home Edition several times and they are the hot tub company the Discovery Channel chose for their hit TV show “How it’s Made”. Master Spa’s CEO is on the board of the “International Hot Tub Association”.
1) C'mon Deron, you work for Master corporate so you know those various "awards" you mentioned in an attempt to make Master look better are simply paid for advertising but you forgot to mention that. Consumers Digest Best is flat out an "award" you paid for. Master paid to get on the hit show "How it's Made", that is no badge of honor its just a TV advertisement. Master gives the spas to Extreme Makeover to put on their show and maybe even has to pay beyond that as well for all I know. Other spa makers have spent years building a solid reputation and can rely on good word of mouth from their customers and even their competitors have respect for them. Yes, we all know others pay for some of those "awards" as well but they don't have to try to use them to whitewash their reputation. We're not naive; you guys chose the path you're on, and we haven't even mentioned that corporate run, over the top, shameful traveling spa sales circus which makes a mockery of any supposed ethics award.
2) If Master's poor reputation is because of competitors why isn't everyone slamming each other here? Why does everyone come down on Master specifically? We have dealers of Jacuzzi, Hot Spring, Arctic, etc. on this site and while they certainly tout their own product they will also typically say positive things about each other as well. The fact such respect isn't extended to Master is not simply due to being a competitor. Its not like Master is anywhere close to being the Big Dog in the industry where others might feel a need to pile on. There is no conspiracy and no collusion for everyone to get Master as you'd like to have people believe? Besides, when you do a search here and elsewhere you get plenty of responses from unsatisfied Master owners and not just the ones who've been duped by the traveling Master sales circus that you guys send around the US.
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I would have to agree with Spatech on this one, he is spot on. i would also add that most of us who are regulars are speaking from experiance, not to say that there are some really good dealers out there that sell Master, But seeing what they have done with the spa circus in our town gives a bad taste, not because they come in and sell the spas, it is the practice on how they do it....with our opinions on this site we talk from experiance. You can see were most of us stand and what we like. most of try to help out as much , trying not to be biased toward our own brands, you will notice we will put down several brands that we believe are very good...but again you need to remember these are all our opinions, including Deron which we appreciate all sides even though we may not agree......
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Master gives the spa industry a black eye. Anyone who buys one is a fool and is asking for future heartache.
Their sales wolves are despicable and should not be allowed at any home shows or fairs.
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All I got to say from a service person stand point is every Master Spa I worked on is a POS! I am currently fixing a Down East (Master built spa) and it looks like it was engineered by blind monkeys. Got to love that Styrofoam insulation that is so loosely put is place its got to have some serious high "R" value (NOT). Cabinet so flimsy it shakes in the wind, shell thinner than plastic wrap...shall I go on?
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In regards to the large events that many of you competitors enjoy complaining about please allow me to make a few respectful comments. First, these events actually are not done by Master Spas. ................Is that a bad thing?
I know that our dealers take advantage of it when other dealers or even manufacturers[/quote(yes, there are manufacturers that are actually doing these events themselves without dealers involved) come into their markets and do an event.
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Deron,
Welcome to the forum, I see your post count is more than a handful, but I wasn't aware of you till now. I am purely a consumer and not aligned with any manufacturer. When I purchased my spa I was totally unaware of much in the industry. It came down to a Master Spa 750 I think it was, and the tub I ended up with. The "Traveling circus" as it has been called has improved, but was a major factor in my going away from Master. The ads around that show were the biggest outright lies I've personally seen in consumer advertising. In recent years they have been toned down.
I also know that these shows where the major reason Columbus' oldest hot tub store dropped the Master line. Clearly they didn't benefit from the increased traffic and this was before the down turn in the economy. As for the shows not being done by Master, I just have to shake my head at that comment. If another company was trashing my image through questionable practices I certainly wouldn't stand by and let it happen.
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In regards to the large events that many of you competitors enjoy complaining about please allow me to make a few respectful comments. First, these events actually are not done by Master Spas. ................Is that a bad thing?
I also know that these shows where the major reason Columbus' oldest hot tub store dropped the Master line. Clearly they didn't benefit from the increased traffic and this was before the down turn in the economy. As for the shows not being done by Master, I just have to shake my head at that comment. If another company was trashing my image through questionable practices I certainly wouldn't stand by and let it happen.
It's ridiculous to say those shows "actually are not done by Master Spas". That's simply a play on words. You hire the people to run these shows and its coordinated through Master so just because the people under the tent aren't technically Master employees does not mean it's not your show. It's the Master corporate traveling spa show and all the deceptive advertising and sales practices are a reflection on Master because after all, it's your show.
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:D Looks like Deron took all his posts and went home! ROFWL :D ;D ;D
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:D Looks like Deron took all his posts and went home! ROFWL :D ;D ;D
Was it something I said? I really didn't try to chase him.
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Deron,
I am a newbie to the spa world so when I posted my experience with Master Spas it was completely unbiased. Just what happened to me. BTW, it's posted on another thread, but I thought I'd copy it here for your convenience.
As far as Master Spas... Went to one of their shows, spas were $$$, sales pressure was unpleasant. Went outside and took out my phone and got on the internet to find out about Master Spas (the actual dealer came out to tell me not to worry about Master Spas reputation. That even made my search that much more important.) What I read wasn't flattering. When I told the sales guy I wasn't buying he got upset and told me that I just wasted so much of his time when he could have been making sales... guess I should have felt bad and bought one from the poor baby :'(. Oh, and when he told me that they "are a Christian Company" that really upset my stomach. Where did that sales line come from?
Two cents thrown in... ::)
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Deron, you wrote: In regards to the large events that many of you competitors enjoy complaining about please allow me to make a few respectful comments. First, these events actually are not done by Master Spas. ................Is that a bad thing?
again, here was my experience.
When I was at the show that I refer to in my earlier post, I was told that each salesperson there was an employee "at the plant" and "on the floor" where the Master Spas are made. Some little birdie in the back of mind kept tweeting "why are they here as salesmen when they work at the plant or are they salesmen saying that they actually work at the plant?" That was numero uno tweet... the rest came as I described.
That will be my four cents worth ::) but, of course, only my experience. I'm sure there are owners of this spa that are perfectly happy.
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Just heard on the radio that we are having an amazing Pool Spa and Sauna show down at Reliant Stadium this weekend. Come see all the different hot tubs, swim spas and saunas from different companies on sale in one place!!
Notice they said Pool first, then in the ad, no more mention of pools. Master is intentionally misleading unknowing consumers to think this will be a pool show. Since I live in Houston, and it is April, a consumer might just think they really are going to a pool show only to be bombarded by unpleasant (thank you HP) sales pressures to by a hot tub.
How much you wanna bet they have one rinky dink Wal-mart type pool there just to say it is a pool show, too?
I think the fact that Deron was called out and then just conveniently removed his posts tells you volumes about that company.
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:D Looks like Deron took all his posts and went home! ROFWL :D ;D ;D
Deron shows up once or twice a year and tries to use "awards" they've purchased to refute Masters reputation or tries to make it sound like there is a conspiracy against them but he scurries off into the woods when he realizes we all know the real story.
The one that get me is how they advertise for that spa circus as if there are multiple manufacturers even though the show is really 90-100% Master. The sad part is if you call the toll free number they list ahead of time to see if its something you really want to attend you can't get ANY meaningful information ("sorry, I don't have a list of the manufacturers who will to be there"). I've been to it a couple times and can verify that no one is exaggerating; you'll want to go home and take a shower from the whole experience. They should have a covered wagon at those shows selling magical elixir out of the back like in the olden days of snake oil salesmen.
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When I drove 1.5 hours to what I found out was THEIR show, I thought I was going to see many different spas. I drove that distance to other shows and saw different spas; however, I didn't see any Master Spas.
I was really disappointed to drive that distance to see only one spa manufacturer :( I wonder why they don't exhibit their spas at shows that feature different hot tub manufacturers? Seriously, is there a reason? Do other spa manufacturers distance themselves from Master? I found it odd and frustrating and, btw, that was another tweet in my ear. Hmmmm. ???
Hey, you know what I really wanted to say to the salesman that told me they were a "Christian company?" "Well, that's a no brainer, I'm Jewish!" :D
Took out the above comment. Unlike the salesman I dealt with, I don't want to offend anyone. :o Does that shock you Mr. Salesman? I don't happen to be Jewish, but I can assure you that if I were, I would have definitely told him that.
hp
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when they were here last fall the also brought in some Phoenix, they also said as usual largest sale in area ever I think i also read all major manufacturers will be here,we called and asked what brands would be there and the guy answering was pretty rude and would only say you got to go to find out, at the show he had several used tubs, Bullfrog, Sundance, and a few others,,,,so maybe that is how they get major brands being sold,, whats also funny is i had a customer come in the store yesterday still looking for a tub, she commented she went to the show and was not happy with the sales pressure , price is good today only when we pack up and leave the deal is gone,,,,she said he was also very pushy.........just thought i would add this to it.....But your right Deron took his ball and went home...
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Or maybe Deron just has better things to do than to argue with a bunch of imbasils. And so do I, so my post will be brief and I will not be drawn into an endless argument with competitors trying to slander their competition, namely Master Spas.
If you want to find thousands of happy Master Spas customers, you are invited to come into my store. Randomly pick some customer files out of our filing cabinet and give them a call. Great products, great service, and great factory support makes it easy to make our customers happy!
Somehow I doubt I will get any takers, but just in case...5204 Jackson Rd. Ann Arbor Mi 48103
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Or maybe Deron just has better things to do than to argue with a bunch of imbasils. And so do I, so my post will be brief and I will not be drawn into an endless argument with competitors trying to slander their competition, namely Master Spas.
It is spelled imbeciles.
Even if you are right though. Why delete all posts?
By the way, I don't think the argument is endless when at the first sign that no one will buy into the BS being thrown at them you run away. That is pretty much the end as I see it. ;)
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Leisureworks,
I appreciate your comments. imbeciles,and slander(sweet) did you read all the comments, i don't think there was any slander intended or spoken of. Alot of of what we speak of is from experience of what we see and hear,, if you also notice in my earlier comment i wrote there are some great dealers that sell Master spas . So as you sell Master Spas and you have happy customers. that is what it is all about. Have you had the Big Show show up in your town? In our town the dealer said audios to the line after the 2nd show here. Again kudos to you for your happiness with the company and keeping your customers happy,so calling us imbeciles is a little far fetched. Again this forum is about opinions we all have, some right some wrong, but anyone can gather enough info to help them make the decision on there purchase is what is about.and if Deron was right or believed he was right why delete the posts?
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Or maybe Deron just has better things to do than to argue with a bunch of imbasils. And so do I, so my post will be brief and I will not be drawn into an endless argument with competitors trying to slander their competition, namely Master Spas.
If you want to find thousands of happy Master Spas customers, you are invited to come into my store. Randomly pick some customer files out of our filing cabinet and give them a call. Great products, great service, and great factory support makes it easy to make our customers happy!
Somehow I doubt I will get any takers, but just in case...5204 Jackson Rd. Ann Arbor Mi 48103
The only way I would be caught in Ann Arbor is after another Buckeye win ;D The fact that you won't have any takers is more geography than anyone wanting to argue. Your tone is somewhat arrogant, and I guess I can be counted as one of those IM BASILS. I almost bought one, but I know we have had a few happy customers from our local dealer here.
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Or maybe Deron just has better things to do than to argue with a bunch of imbasils. And so do I, so my post will be brief and I will not be drawn into an endless argument with competitors trying to slander their competition, namely Master Spas.
If it were simply a matter of slamming the competition then it would be going out in all directions since there are representatives of many brands on this site and many independent professionals as well as spa owners. You don't see the mud slinging toward everyone so why does Master get all this attention? There is a reason Master stands out like a sore thumb on this website, IMO its the product and the manufacturers business practices that have given people a sour taste.
If you want to find thousands of happy Master Spas customers, you are invited to come into my store. Randomly pick some customer files out of our filing cabinet and give them a call. Great products, great service, and great factory support makes it easy to make our customers happy!
Somehow I doubt I will get any takers, but just in case...5204 Jackson Rd. Ann Arbor Mi 48103
My opinion of Master is not high but no one knocked Master dealers so you have no need to defend yourself here. I don't doubt you do a good job taking care of your customers but I'll have to disagree with you on the product and the manufacturer.
I personally think Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance are all well made spas from reputable companies who have some excellent dealers representing them but I'm sure they all also each have some less than great dealers. While I'm no fan of Master or their products I'm sure they have dealers of all type with some of them being very good and if you're one of their better ones then thats great.
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Or maybe Deron just has better things to do than to argue with a bunch of imbasils. And so do I, so my post will be brief and I will not be drawn into an endless argument with competitors trying to slander their competition, namely Master Spas.
If you want to find thousands of happy Master Spas customers, you are invited to come into my store. Randomly pick some customer files out of our filing cabinet and give them a call. Great products, great service, and great factory support makes it easy to make our customers happy!
Somehow I doubt I will get any takers, but just in case...5204 Jackson Rd. Ann Arbor Mi 48103
Leisureworks... please note that all of my posts have been merely my experience at the Master Spa shows... which completely turned me off. Maybe Master Spas should not do such shows, or if they do, incorporate other spa manufacturers so that the "spa show" is really what the consumer expects. Quite frankly, I never go to any show to purchase. I go there to sample and experience different products. In turn, I seek out the local seller of any product that peaked my interest.
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To all,
I started this inquiry and truly want to thank you for your input. I will probably go with the Marquis based on the input plus the fact that the closest spa dealer happens to be the Marquis dealer and I like doing business locally.
jb