Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: nytub36 on March 18, 2021, 01:25:54 pm

Title: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 18, 2021, 01:25:54 pm
Great forum! Truly invaluable information to guide my new tub buying decision. Thank you all!

To preface this post - I'm in the NY Long Island area. Looking for my first tub (although have enjoyed hot tubs for years). No more than a 5 seater (4-5 is fine) with a lounger (no issues with floating). Will be used by 1-2 people 80% of time. The number of jets isn't important, but hydrotherapy/relaxation and good "guts" (insulation, electronics and sub-frame) are. Based on what I saw in person, anything over 350-400 gallons would probably be too much. I don't need a tub "tomorrow", but I am ready to buy today. Although not opposed to waiting for a good tub with a "good deal" (if one can be found in this market). Sept/Oct or even later delivery would be fine. Most below were dry-tested and fit fine. Wet-testing is not encouraged in my area (because COVID still) and I wouldn't push for it until I land on a manufacturer and model that I'm ready to buy.

Originally was focused on these (all local dealers in my area):
Jacuzzi J-415 - quoted 16k with Sept availability
The first dealer I visited. Ruled them out almost immediately because I feel there's a steep premium for the name recognition and there are comparable quality tubs from competitors. Also didn't have the best dealer visit. They didn't seem overly interested in my business and appeared lacking in technical knowledge. Even the simple information like the type/level of insulation and the kind of electronics were a mystery. Didn’t want to open the tub to show me the insides. Overall just didn't seem too interested in answering my questions. Top brand or not, at least make the customer feel welcome. I left that place feeling like I wasted 30 mins for nothing.

Sundance Bristol - quoted 10,300 with Aug availability
I liked the dealer and they have generally good reviews. Though the tub seemed overpriced for what it was. I asked about the Cameo and they told me "limited availability" with not much information as to what that meant in terms of timing. Felt like they were only pushing the tubs they had on the floor and not interested in what I wanted.

Hot Springs Envoy - quoted 14,500 with Sept/Oct availability
Great tub! Liked it very much. The price seemed high for a 4 seater. Would forgo the salt system and stick to the tried-and-true chlorine and water chemistry method. Dealer seemed okay, but was really pushing the salt system.

Artesian Island Elite Grand Bahama - quoted 14,700 with Nov availability
I've read a lot of good things about Artesian and was excited to see their tubs. Specifically, I wanted to see the Elite series Quail-Ridge. Called ahead and the dealer said they had one on the floor. Showed up and they said the guy on the phone made a mistake - they really didn't have that model. Red flag #1.
Asked about buying that model as a new order and initially the dealer said those are no longer offered. I knew that to be a lie, because I called a place in North Carolina about a week prior and they said it IS offered for sale. Red flag #2.
When I said I'd be willing to wait for the exact model I wanted and how a new order would work, the dealer said Artesian is now 22+ months out on new orders. Again, that info didn't match what I heard from the North Caroline dealer – they said 12-14 months for new order. Red flag #3.
This dealer was only interested in pushing the tubs he had on the floor and/or what he had on order. At this point, 20 mins in with multiple red flags, I was ready to walk out. He offered to price out the Grand Bahama. Not my first choice, but I figured since I'd already spent some time there, might as well walk away with a baseline for a somewhat comparable tub. I thought the 14,700 quote is waaay too high for that tub.
Also, really can't wrap my brain around their jet control system. Seems like a fantastic idea to have separate controls for each seat, but the logic also tell me that adding more motors and controls introduces complexity and potential failure points. If this system is so great, why aren't any of the other manufacturers doing it? Am I overthinking this?
I really wanted to like Artesian based on all the good I've heard and read about the company, but my local dealer (he's the only Artesian dealer in my area) really put me off. Wouldn't go back or buy from him even if he offered a great deal.

Master Spas TS7.2 - quoted 11k with mid-late Oct availability
This was a late addition to my buy list and I've read a lot of mixed reviews on the interwebs about the manufacturer. Still wanted to visit the local dealer and see the tub in person to make my own judgment. First, this dealer was head and shoulders above all others I visited prior, in terms of general disposition and knowledge. Offered helpful information without being prodded for it, was not at all pushy and overall very accommodating in a non-salesperson kind of way. Gave me a good feeling. The 7.2 tub I looked at also looked good and fit me well (dry test). Large, well-spaced jets. Just enough extras (waterfall and lights) to make a difference without being uselessly flashy. Although the 11k quote is probably more than what it should be. I thought their LSX series was in the 12k+ range. So maybe this Twilight 7.2 should be sub 10k?

NOTE - all above prices do NOT include NY sales tax.
Any thoughts, notes and suggestions would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Red MC on March 19, 2021, 09:33:14 am
Strange experience with that Artesian dealer.  Even without the red flags, $14700 is way too much for that model.  But all your prices seem high.  Must be the area.

If it were me, and I couldn't wet test, I'd get the Envoy.  I think it's worth the price premium over the Master.  But that's just me.

To answer the question about the individual seat pumps and variable flow controls, they are awesome.  We had them on our last tub and miss them.  Our new tub has dual-speed motors.  With that, and opening or closing jets, or adjusting diverters, my wife and I can usually find a way to get the amount of flow we both want.  But it seems like we're always faffing around every time we shift seats.  It was really nice to be able to do your own thing without having to negotiate it with someone else.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 19, 2021, 10:40:12 am
Thanks Red MC. Just out of curiosity - approximately what would be a fair price in your region for either the Master 7.2 or HS Envoy?
That's why I wanted to post here and get some opinions, because the quotes I'm getting are really out there.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Tman122 on March 19, 2021, 10:53:14 am
Thanks Red MC. Just out of curiosity - approximately what would be a fair price in your region for either the Master 7.2 or HS Envoy?
That's why I wanted to post here and get some opinions, because the quotes I'm getting are really out there.

That is not an apples to apples comparison. More like a Kia versus a BMW.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 19, 2021, 11:47:12 am
I've owned a Kia and loved it. And have driven my brother's BMW and also loved it.
Master Spas may not be in the same league as Hot Springs, in terms of brand recognition and perceived quality. I happen to like tubs from both manufacturers. Using your Kia/BMW example - I just don't want to buy a Kia for the price of a BMW.

What IS a fair market price for each? So I have a baseline to go on.

Thanks!
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: cranbiz on March 19, 2021, 12:32:08 pm
The price on a Master TS7.2 ($11K) is about what they go for from what I'm seeing, depending on what's in it. Reports are that Master is due for another increase soon due to parts shortages/increases and shipping increases. Master dealer was quoting 8-10 month delivery on a new spa.

Don't know about the Envoy. When I was shopping earlier in the year, I couldn't get the HS dealer here in NC to give me the time of day, they set an appointment and then when I showed up, said that I didn't have an appointment and told me they couldn't talk to me.

I ended up with an Artesian as that dealer had their act together for good customer service, decent pricing and the tub was on order already, unsold and due in late this month. It also happened to be the color choices I wanted.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Sammi on March 19, 2021, 03:16:07 pm
Thanks Red MC. Just out of curiosity - approximately what would be a fair price in your region for either the Master 7.2 or HS Envoy?
That's why I wanted to post here and get some opinions, because the quotes I'm getting are really out there.

I paid your quoted price for an Envoy 6 months ago before tax. It included ozone, salt system, sound system, cover, cover cradle 2, steps, electrical box,, and start up package. I would think prices have increased in the past 6 months.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: cranbiz on March 19, 2021, 03:55:25 pm
I just talked to my dealer in Raleigh as I wanted to check on a couple of things. I also asked him about a lead time for a new factory order and he said that Artesian was now out to 20-22 months. This is up from the 12-14 months they were quoting back in January.

He also said that my tub was expected to be in before the end of the month. :-)
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 19, 2021, 04:24:58 pm
I paid your quoted price for an Envoy 6 months ago before tax. It included ozone, salt system, sound system, cover, cover cradle 2, steps, electrical box,, and start up package. I would think prices have increased in the past 6 months.

I didn't have the sound system spec'd in mine. That's probably a $1k add-on at least. All others seem on par with your deal.
Good to know. Thanks!
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 19, 2021, 04:28:30 pm
I just talked to my dealer in Raleigh as I wanted to check on a couple of things. I also asked him about a lead time for a new factory order and he said that Artesian was now out to 20-22 months. This is up from the 12-14 months they were quoting back in January.

He also said that my tub was expected to be in before the end of the month. :-)

The Artesian dealer I spoke with about a Quail-Ridge and who gave me 12-14 mos was Oasis Outdoor in Pineville, NC. If they're really out to 22 mos, that's unacceptable. Entire new houses are built in less time. What's happening with either their supply chain or scheduling/production to warrant almost a 2yr lead time? Wish I could get in sooner, but will have to move on to other manufacturers.
Enjoy your new tub!
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Hottubguy on March 19, 2021, 04:58:24 pm
I just talked to my dealer in Raleigh as I wanted to check on a couple of things. I also asked him about a lead time for a new factory order and he said that Artesian was now out to 20-22 months. This is up from the 12-14 months they were quoting back in January.

He also said that my tub was expected to be in before the end of the month. :-)

The Artesian dealer I spoke with about a Quail-Ridge and who gave me 12-14 mos was Oasis Outdoor in Pineville, NC. If they're really out to 22 mos, that's unacceptable. Entire new houses are built in less time. What's happening with either their supply chain or scheduling/production to warrant almost a 2yr lead time? Wish I could get in sooner, but will have to move on to other manufacturers.
Enjoy your new tub!

If they are out 22 months it means they are busy. They arenít the only ones with lead times like they. Tells me they arenít sacrificing quality for quantity.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Red MC on March 19, 2021, 07:44:22 pm
Thanks Red MC. Just out of curiosity - approximately what would be a fair price in your region for either the Master 7.2 or HS Envoy?
That's why I wanted to post here and get some opinions, because the quotes I'm getting are really out there.

Last July we were quoted under $15k for the Grandee.  I didn't get a quote on the Envoy, but my recollection was that it would come in around a a grand less.  I think that's probably the least inflated price quote you got, but Hot Spring is already on the expensive side.  You pay for the reputation.

The Master Spas dealer wanted around $13k for the LSX 850.  I forget what we were quoted on the TS8.25, but I'm positive it was under $11k, and I would have expected the TS7.2 under $10k.

The Artesian and Jacuzzi prices you were quoted are the ones that seemed most inflated.  We were quoted only $200 more for the Pelican Bay as you were quoted for the Grand Bahama, and the Piper Glen was right around $14k even.  We didn't even consider Jacuzzi, because as you discovered, that company and its dealers are smoking crack.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Sammi on March 19, 2021, 08:04:33 pm
I paid your quoted price for an Envoy 6 months ago before tax. It included ozone, salt system, sound system, cover, cover cradle 2, steps, electrical box,, and start up package. I would think prices have increased in the past 6 months.

I didn't have the sound system spec'd in mine. That's probably a $1k add-on at least. All others seem on par with your deal.
Good to know. Thanks!

Just shy of a grand and worth every penny - but we are music lovers. I liked that we could still listen even at minus 15 below F
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Spatech_tuo on March 19, 2021, 08:49:51 pm
I've owned a Kia and loved it. And have driven my brother's BMW and also loved it.
Master Spas may not be in the same league as Hot Springs, in terms of brand recognition and perceived quality. I happen to like tubs from both manufacturers. Using your Kia/BMW example - I just don't want to buy a Kia for the price of a BMW.

What IS a fair market price for each? So I have a baseline to go on.

Thanks!

Master gets plenty of brand recognition here, thats why most pros suggest an alternative!!
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 19, 2021, 10:04:08 pm

Last July we were quoted under $15k for the Grandee.  I didn't get a quote on the Envoy, but my recollection was that it would come in around a a grand less.  I think that's probably the least inflated price quote you got, but Hot Spring is already on the expensive side.  You pay for the reputation.

The Master Spas dealer wanted around $13k for the LSX 850.  I forget what we were quoted on the TS8.25, but I'm positive it was under $11k, and I would have expected the TS7.2 under $10k.

The Artesian and Jacuzzi prices you were quoted are the ones that seemed most inflated.  We were quoted only $200 more for the Pelican Bay as you were quoted for the Grand Bahama, and the Piper Glen was right around $14k even.  We didn't even consider Jacuzzi, because as you discovered, that company and its dealers are smoking crack.

11,499 is the best Iíve received for TS7.2 with ABS pan, Mast3rPur, QuietFlo Circ pump and WiFi. October timeframe. LSX700 was quoted 2k higher. I canít justify that expense for an additional  pump and a few extra jets.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 19, 2021, 10:06:38 pm

Master gets plenty of brand recognition here, thats why most pros suggest an alternative!!

Fair enough. Appreciate the input. What alternative do you suggest in the sub 12k range?
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Spatech_tuo on March 20, 2021, 04:57:07 pm

Master gets plenty of brand recognition here, thats why most pros suggest an alternative!!

Fair enough. Appreciate the input. What alternative do you suggest in the sub 12k range?

There are good number of companies that will sell you a very good product (most spas look great, not all are built great) while also backing it fully (warranties generally look alike, not all are backed alike when it comes to taking care of the customer.)

All brands have spas from entry level through top end. Each spa manufacturer should have a dealer locator on their website so you can see if they have a local presence in your area and my personal list would include:

Artesian, Bullfrog, Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Tman122 on March 20, 2021, 10:50:46 pm
and perceived quality.
Thanks!

Look at them and their fit and finish and equipment bay. It's not perceived quality. And my opinion comes from 30 years experience.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on March 22, 2021, 03:34:58 pm
My first choice was the Hot Spring Envoy. It's a beautiful, well-built tub, from a generally well-regarded manufacturer.
The problem is (at least in my area) - HS Envoy was quoted $15.5 whereas TS7.2 was $11.5 ...this was quoted in NY.

Is the Envoy really 25% better? ...or am I better off putting that difference toward a much-needed gazebo (like Covana Oasis)?
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: RGreen151 on July 14, 2021, 10:16:01 pm
Hello, I am looking into getting my first hot tub and also in the NY Long Island area.
I also been looking at the Master Spa TS 8.2 from Suntek was quoted $11k without any options.
I found this great forum while researching hot tubs.
Please let me know any follow up on your search and or purchase.
Due to reading I am interested in a better Quality 8 foot tub but want to be in the sub $13k ball park.
After reading tons of reviews, the dealer seems the most important, so I would greatly appreciate any input regarding Long Island dealers.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: cranbiz on July 15, 2021, 09:41:24 am
The dealer IS your most important factor. A good dealer is there to help you and take care of your problems and questions. A poor dealer only wants your money and cares less about after sale support. You want a dealer with in house techs. That way, if you have a problem, you get dealer support. A dealer that subs out their service work is not someone you want to buy from (Aqua Living, I'm looking at you).

As mentioned before, this is the brands I would be looking at. Artesian, Bullfrog, Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Spatech_tuo on July 15, 2021, 01:04:03 pm
The dealer IS your most important factor. A good dealer is there to help you and take care of your problems and questions. A poor dealer only wants your money and cares less about after sale support. You want a dealer with in house techs. That way, if you have a problem, you get dealer support. A dealer that subs out their service work is not someone you want to buy from (Aqua Living, I'm looking at you).

As mentioned before, this is the brands I would be looking at. Artesian, Bullfrog, Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance

The dealer is not more important that the manufacturer, and vice versa (IMO).

You really need to hit on both of those! However, there are multiple really good nationwide manufacturers available and most people have many good brands in their area (Master wouldn't be one IMO) but locally your dealer choices can be hit/miss. You may have only 1 really good local dealer or maybe just 2. You really want to hit on both a good, reliable manufacturer and a dealer that will be there for you both before and after the sale.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: cranbiz on July 15, 2021, 04:45:31 pm
The dealer IS your most important factor. A good dealer is there to help you and take care of your problems and questions. A poor dealer only wants your money and cares less about after sale support. You want a dealer with in house techs. That way, if you have a problem, you get dealer support. A dealer that subs out their service work is not someone you want to buy from (Aqua Living, I'm looking at you).

As mentioned before, this is the brands I would be looking at. Artesian, Bullfrog, Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance

The dealer is not more important that the manufacturer, and vice versa (IMO).

You really need to hit on both of those! However, there are multiple really good nationwide manufacturers available and most people have many good brands in their area (Master wouldn't be one IMO) but locally your dealer choices can be hit/miss. You may have only 1 really good local dealer or maybe just 2. You really want to hit on both a good, reliable manufacturer and a dealer that will be there for you both before and after the sale.

I don't disagree with you but if you have 2 dealers in your immediate area and they both sell quality brands and they both have poor reputations, I wouldn't buy from either one. Even a top manufacturer can have problems within the warranty period and if the dealer isn't responsive, then does it matter if you bought a Hot Springs or a Sundance or a (heaven forbid a Dr. Wellness). If you have to travel a bit to find a good dealer with a quality manufacturer, you should, providing they will service your tub.

I have 7 dealers within 30 miles of me, One did not have a tub that would fit my requirements, two had tubs I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, two had outsourced service, one had sales staff that wasn't knowledgeable, one would only do in home sales and one had nothing on the sales floor. I ended up with a dealer over 90 miles away who had tubs on the floor, had a knowledgeable staff, had in house, factory trained techs and had no problems delivering to or servicing my area. They sold Artesian and Marquis, both who had a model that fit my requirements.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Spatech_tuo on July 15, 2021, 06:21:23 pm
The dealer IS your most important factor. A good dealer is there to help you and take care of your problems and questions. A poor dealer only wants your money and cares less about after sale support. You want a dealer with in house techs. That way, if you have a problem, you get dealer support. A dealer that subs out their service work is not someone you want to buy from (Aqua Living, I'm looking at you).

As mentioned before, this is the brands I would be looking at. Artesian, Bullfrog, Caldera, D1, Hot Spring, Jacuzzi, Marquis and Sundance

The dealer is not more important that the manufacturer, and vice versa (IMO).

You really need to hit on both of those! However, there are multiple really good nationwide manufacturers available and most people have many good brands in their area (Master wouldn't be one IMO) but locally your dealer choices can be hit/miss. You may have only 1 really good local dealer or maybe just 2. You really want to hit on both a good, reliable manufacturer and a dealer that will be there for you both before and after the sale.

I don't disagree with you but if you have 2 dealers in your immediate area and they both sell quality brands and they both have poor reputations, I wouldn't buy from either one. Even a top manufacturer can have problems within the warranty period and if the dealer isn't responsive, then does it matter if you bought a Hot Springs or a Sundance or a (heaven forbid a Dr. Wellness). If you have to travel a bit to find a good dealer with a quality manufacturer, you should, providing they will service your tub.

I have 7 dealers within 30 miles of me, One did not have a tub that would fit my requirements, two had tubs I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy, two had outsourced service, one had sales staff that wasn't knowledgeable, one would only do in home sales and one had nothing on the sales floor. I ended up with a dealer over 90 miles away who had tubs on the floor, had a knowledgeable staff, had in house, factory trained techs and had no problems delivering to or servicing my area. They sold Artesian and Marquis, both who had a model that fit my requirements.

My post stating that both manufacturer and dealer are equally important (as opposed to saying "The dealer IS your most important factor") didn't need that incredibly obvious follow up but thanks anyway.
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: nytub36 on July 18, 2021, 10:46:35 am
Hello, I am looking into getting my first hot tub and also in the NY Long Island area.
I also been looking at the Master Spa TS 8.2 from Suntek was quoted $11k without any options.
I found this great forum while researching hot tubs.
Please let me know any follow up on your search and or purchase.
Due to reading I am interested in a better Quality 8 foot tub but want to be in the sub $13k ball park.
After reading tons of reviews, the dealer seems the most important, so I would greatly appreciate any input regarding Long Island dealers.

Iíve visited at least 6 different dealers in the Nassau/Suffolk area. Bob over at Suntek came across as the most honest and transparent and generally easy to talk to owner out of them all. Which is why Iíll be buying from him.
Odd that your TS 8.2 is $500 less than my quoted 7.2. He gave me $11,500 back in March. Did the prices fall over the last 3-4 mos?
Title: Re: Hot tub buying process in NY - PLEASE HELP MAKE DECISION
Post by: Pers Onal on July 20, 2021, 11:19:56 am
I know nothing about current models and pricing.

I will state that if at all possible I would not want to pay until I saw it in and working.

This does mean you would have to have electrical in prior to installation.