Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: ejance on March 30, 2017, 12:19:51 pm
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Good Morning All,
I am looking for advice from dealers/owners in addition to my own research (including some wet testing today) to finally pull the trigger and make a purchase. It is amazing how cut-throat this business is, and I have yet to find a single dealer who will admit to a brand s/he does not sell being adequate lol.
I want at or close to top of the line (as long as I can get good value), with my biggest limitation being space. I need one of the sides to max out at 84" and the height to max out at 36" in order to fit it into a covered, fenced-in patio.
I am particularly interested in the financing deals offered by Hot Springs and Caldera that expire tomorrow, which is why I would like to make a decision ASAP.
Here are several that I have been considering:
HotSpring* - Highlife Series - Sovereign
Caldera - Utopia Series - Tahitian
Caldera - Paradise Series - Martinique
Bullfrog -A Series - A6
Bullfrog -Stil7
Sundance - 880 Series - Marin
Artesian - Island Series - Nevis
Marquis - Signature Series - The Promise
Marquis - Vector 21 Series - 77L
I know this is a long list, but I don't mind spending the time checking out all options before making a large purchase. If I end up eliminating several and even adding some new ones based on feedback, I won't mind that at all ;)
*I am curious about the ACE salt water system and how that would affect maintenance and if it is tangibly beneficial to skin/eyes over the typical chlorine/bromine based systems.
This forum has been a great resource and I thank you all in advance for your help! :D
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Disclaimer, I sell Hot Spring, Caldera, and Bullfrog.
I used to sell Jacuzzi, which is the same company as Sundance.
Your list doesn't have a stinker in it. The one I might put at the bottom is Sundance (just a personal preference... I switched to BF from Jacuzzi because the company is increasingly becoming more difficult to deal with for service.) I'd say quality is still up there.
Artesian and Marquis are both top quality brands from what I hear. I have some friends that sell them, but I have no experience with them.
The Sovereign with ACE would probably be our most popular out of the ones we sell. ACE is more about the experience of nice water, and shouldn't be factored in to saving you money, because it will probably cost more. (P.S. I have ACE, and I love it.)
The Bullfrog Stil is an acquired taste. You need the right backyard for it to work. I'd be more inclined to spring for the A6 or A6L because you have a lot more jet pak options for probably less money (same build quality.)
Caldera's Martinique is such a neat little spa. If I wasn't in the industry, I'd probably go with that from a value standpoint. Probably the least expensive of the three I sell.
The Tahitian is a really cool spa in the look on the outside. Sit in those spas though. They all fit very different.
As long as the dealer stands behind whatever you get, you should be set.
Let me know if you have any specific questions about the spas I sell, and I'd be happy to give you my 2 cents. But really... you just need to sit in them. Try them out.
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Good Morning All,
I am looking for advice from dealers/owners in addition to my own research (including some wet testing today) to finally pull the trigger and make a purchase. It is amazing how cut-throat this business is, and I have yet to find a single dealer who will admit to a brand s/he does not sell being adequate lol.
I want at or close to top of the line (as long as I can get good value), with my biggest limitation being space. I need one of the sides to max out at 84" and the height to max out at 36" in order to fit it into a covered, fenced-in patio.
I am particularly interested in the financing deals offered by Hot Springs and Caldera that expire tomorrow, which is why I would like to make a decision ASAP.
Here are several that I have been considering:
HotSpring* - Highlife Series - Sovereign
Caldera - Utopia Series - Tahitian
Caldera - Paradise Series - Martinique
Bullfrog -A Series - A6
Bullfrog -Stil7
Sundance - 880 Series - Marin
Artesian - Island Series - Nevis
Marquis - Signature Series - The Promise
Marquis - Vector 21 Series - 77L
I know this is a long list, but I don't mind spending the time checking out all options before making a large purchase. If I end up eliminating several and even adding some new ones based on feedback, I won't mind that at all ;)
*I am curious about the ACE salt water system and how that would affect maintenance and if it is tangibly beneficial to skin/eyes over the typical chlorine/bromine based systems.
This forum has been a great resource and I thank you all in advance for your help! :D
Agree with everything D00NUT says. I'm a caldera, Marquis dealer. You are looking at a great set of tubs. Don't know much about the artesian but people on this site speak pretty fondly of them. The Stil from Bullfrog is definitely a acquired taste! I'm. It a big fan of the looks of that one but they wouldn't make it if people didn't buy it. If the pro is ends up being one of your front runners wait until after April 1st to buy. You can thank me later for that tip!
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Thank you d00nut and Hottubguy!!
I forgot to mention that I am heavily leaning towards a spa with a lounge chair. Here are the results from today for you both and anyone else hunting for hot tub purchasing experiences:
1st stop - HotSpring dealer
Here I was only able to dry test the Sovereign but wet tested the Jetsetter and Vanguard NXT models. My impressions are that I really did enjoy the mild, fresh feel of the water with the Ozone/ACE system they had set up. I liked the variety of jets. They all were placed well and felt purposeful. I didn't fit well in the Sovereign lounge seat. Oddly enough the Jetsetter loung fit me much better! HotSpring is the only dealer I have spoken with so far that uses a split 20/30 amp which means 6 electrical wires are needed instead of the standard 3 or 4! They made a big deal out of this saying they are the only hot tubs that will keep circulating the water automatically once power returns after the breaker is initially tripped.
2nd stop - Marquis/Jacuzzi dealer
Unfortunately he only sold Marquis swim spas. Apparently there are no Marquis hot tub dealers within hundresd of miles of me. I was able to wet test a couple of the J-300 series and found them really nice! The water was pleasant and the seating felt more comfortable to me than the HotSpring models. The dealer thought the J-LXL seat depth would be too deep for my comfort based on our conversation, but actually every seat including the lounger fit perfectly for me. I love the look and all of the jets were well placed for me as well. Out of nowhere, this is now a front-runner for me!
3rd stop - Bullfrog/Caldera/CalSpa dealer
They didn't carry the Stil series which was fine - I was mostly just curious what it looked/felt like in person but didn't consider this a contender. They didn't have the A-6(L), so I wet tested the R series instead. I found the water to be noticeably chlorinated compared with my previous wet tests, but still mildly so. I really enjoyed the variety of JetPaks. This is most certainly not a gimmick; it is a great way to customize which jets you prefer and boy do they work well! I felt the lounge seat fit to work well for me. This is another contender! The dealer said a benefit to having the removable jets is if they leak, they leak into the hot tub vs. out of it. I don't know how much credence to put towards this.
I wet tested the Martinique and the Geneva (No Tahitian here) and they both felt lacking to me compared with all the others I had previously tested. Perhaps I was all hot tubbed out by this point, but I was feeling the chlorine pretty heavy now. The seats felt okay, and the jets did not seem to hit the right spots. Didn't interest me enough to knock off my two top contenders so far. The dealer sort of nudged me away from CalSpa and I wasn't pushing to test those anyway.
I didn't make it to my Sundance/Artesian dealer - perhaps tomorrow.
FYI the HotSpring dealer slammed their competition saying all the rest are lacking. The Jacuzzi dealer said the ACE system (HotSpring) damages hot tubs. The Bullfrog dealer said that the split amp (HotSpring) is not useful in our warm climate (San Diego) and that Jacuzzi/Sundance/etc. used to be good until they went corporate. Haha gotta love healthy competition.
Bottom line on my hot tub list:
HotSpring- Sovereign $8,949 0 down 40 months 0% finanancing - Still in the running but leaning against due to the lounge fit
Marquis - Out due to no dealer in my area
Jacuzzi - LXL - 9,450 0 down 24 months 0% financing- Contender
Bullfrog - A6L - $10,899 15% down 60 months 0% financing - Contender
Caldera - Out either due to bad fit for me, hot tub fatigue or a combination of the 2 haha
Sundance - Marin - TBD
Artesian - Nevis - TBD
Once I am closer to making a decision I might see if I can push the price(s) down a bit, but it did seem like the dealers wouldn't wiggle anymore especially with those financing deals.
Thoughts?
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Sounds like all the top Watkins products now have the split breaker. Our Caldera Geneva came with it also. If you live in cold climate I think it is a nice feature. I wired ours and ran #6 from the main panel to the GFCI breaker and then #8 to the tub. The extra wires were no problem as that leg has to go thru conduit anyway.
Testing too many tubs in one day could be a problem. It is like test driving a dozen cars in the same day.
Good luck, sounds like you are narrowing it down.
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The Sovereign price is out of this world low, especially with the financing! The A6L is pretty much in line with what I sell it for (A6L is more of a Sovereign competitor IMO.)
The Bullfrog guy is probably right, the split breaker doesn't really serve much purpose in southern Cal, but it is warrantable along with the spa (5 years.) So that's a plus. Plus, it comes with the spa anyway.
The 40 month deal ends today, so you might be pushed to get at least a reservation in if you are leaning towards HSS and want that financing deal. I've gotten about 10,000 emails from Watkins on Caldera and Hot Spring titled 'NO EXCEPTIONS.'
Just letting you know!
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So nice to get such great feedback!
The fact that you mentioned that the Sovereign is such a great deal made me reconsider it (because let's be honest that's what I am after haha), but the fit was just not right and I enjoyed the jets on the Jacuzzi and Bullfrog better.
Interesting that you guys didn't comment on the Jacuzzi LXL. Did you not comment on it because of bad experience or just lack of it? It is currently my front-runner based on each seat and jet lining up perfectly with my body. I love all of the leg jets in the lounger, and it has 2 sets of foot jets to be shared among the other seats. It also is the only one that I have been looking at that has 2 pumps. I think the look is top notch. Also, I am dealing with the owner of the local Jacuzzi dealer and I know he will be there to take care of me (rapport, perfect Yelp score/reviews over the years, not to mention I can almost walk there). Am I missing something here? Also, is it priced right?
Bullfrog as a product was a close second, maybe if he throws in the Ozone to sweeten the deal, I will have a tougher decision. The shop made me feel like I was dealing with a bunch of commissioned salespeople who take care of themselves on the front end and not me so much on the back end haha.
Off to my Sundance/Artesian dealer for my wet test. He was the first dealer I interfaced with and has walked me through a lot of my education and I can tell I will get good service. Let's see how his products stack up!
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Ozone should not be on your radar. #1 (by a mile) is feeling. If the Jacuzzi feels the best, remember that you're buying a tub to relax, and make that you deciding factor. #2 is the dealer. The rest are details. Details are important, but dont bury the lede.
Water chemistry is not going to change between brands- They all have the same basic principals. I've sold numerous sanitizers and I promise you'll be fine regardless of the tub you purchase. Ozone is like filtration systems: They're nice and they serve a purpose but they're never anything more than an assistant to you and your water chemistry.
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So nice to get such great feedback!
The fact that you mentioned that the Sovereign is such a great deal made me reconsider it (because let's be honest that's what I am after haha), but the fit was just not right and I enjoyed the jets on the Jacuzzi and Bullfrog better.
Interesting that you guys didn't comment on the Jacuzzi LXL. Did you not comment on it because of bad experience or just lack of it? It is currently my front-runner based on each seat and jet lining up perfectly with my body. I love all of the leg jets in the lounger, and it has 2 sets of foot jets to be shared among the other seats. It also is the only one that I have been looking at that has 2 pumps. I think the look is top notch. Also, I am dealing with the owner of the local Jacuzzi dealer and I know he will be there to take care of me (rapport, perfect Yelp score/reviews over the years, not to mention I can almost walk there). Am I missing something here? Also, is it priced right?
Bullfrog as a product was a close second, maybe if he throws in the Ozone to sweeten the deal, I will have a tougher decision. The shop made me feel like I was dealing with a bunch of commissioned salespeople who take care of themselves on the front end and not me so much on the back end haha.
Off to my Sundance/Artesian dealer for my wet test. He was the first dealer I interfaced with and has walked me through a lot of my education and I can tell I will get good service. Let's see how his products stack up!
All the Jacuzzi dealers near me dropped Jacuzzi for Bullfrog a couple of years ago. So price wise I have no idea. I don't think I've ever seen that particular tub before. You did mention great reviews about the dealer. Dealer and tub go hand and hand as to which one to buy. If the jacuzzi dealer is the best dealer then I would probably lean that way. I would try that Geneva again because I've never heard of power being a issue on it. Like I said before you don't really have a bad tub on your list so I would go with 1) tub feel 2) dealer 3) price. I would forget about all the other stuff like ozone and such.
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Hi,
I'm in same boat like you. Looking for my First Hot Tub with same specifications.
Did you buy anyone?
Thanks
Lucky
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All the Jacuzzi dealers near me dropped Jacuzzi for Bullfrog a couple of years ago. So price wise I have no idea. I don't think I've ever seen that particular tub before. You did mention great reviews about the dealer. Dealer and tub go hand and hand as to which one to buy. If the jacuzzi dealer is the best dealer then I would probably lean that way. I would try that Geneva again because I've never heard of power being a issue on it. Like I said before you don't really have a bad tub on your list so I would go with 1) tub feel 2) dealer 3) price. I would forget about all the other stuff like ozone and such.
Dropping Jacuzzi for BF means nothing. But I do agree forget about all the other fluff like ozone, ace, jet pacs, double breaker, and go with what feels best to you first. Dealer second, then price.
Agreed, Sundance is never lacking on power. But you haven't tested it yet.
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All the Jacuzzi dealers near me dropped Jacuzzi for Bullfrog a couple of years ago. So price wise I have no idea. I don't think I've ever seen that particular tub before. You did mention great reviews about the dealer. Dealer and tub go hand and hand as to which one to buy. If the jacuzzi dealer is the best dealer then I would probably lean that way. I would try that Geneva again because I've never heard of power being a issue on it. Like I said before you don't really have a bad tub on your list so I would go with 1) tub feel 2) dealer 3) price. I would forget about all the other stuff like ozone and such.
Dropping Jacuzzi for BF means nothing. But I do agree forget about all the other fluff like ozone, ace, jet pacs, double breaker, and go with what feels best to you first. Dealer second, then price.
Agreed, Sundance is never lacking on power. But you haven't tested it yet.
I didn't mean anything by that statement other then I have no Jacuzzi Competition so I have no idea on pricing of it.
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Bullfrog, Hot Spring (Highlife collection only) and Marquis make some of the best tubs in the industry...of those brands see what spa fit you best and also which jets feel the best (always wet test in my opinion) confirm the dealer is quality by looking at local reviews, word of mouth, etc. and find something within your budget...good luck!
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All the Jacuzzi dealers near me dropped Jacuzzi for Bullfrog a couple of years ago. So price wise I have no idea. I don't think I've ever seen that particular tub before. You did mention great reviews about the dealer. Dealer and tub go hand and hand as to which one to buy. If the jacuzzi dealer is the best dealer then I would probably lean that way. I would try that Geneva again because I've never heard of power being a issue on it. Like I said before you don't really have a bad tub on your list so I would go with 1) tub feel 2) dealer 3) price. I would forget about all the other stuff like ozone and such.
Dropping Jacuzzi for BF means nothing. But I do agree forget about all the other fluff like ozone, ace, jet pacs, double breaker, and go with what feels best to you first. Dealer second, then price.
Agreed, Sundance is never lacking on power. But you haven't tested it yet.
I didn't mean anything by that statement other then I have no Jacuzzi Competition so I have no idea on pricing of it.
I know but the OP may not have understood the statement.
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All the Jacuzzi dealers near me dropped Jacuzzi for Bullfrog a couple of years ago. So price wise I have no idea. I don't think I've ever seen that particular tub before. You did mention great reviews about the dealer. Dealer and tub go hand and hand as to which one to buy. If the jacuzzi dealer is the best dealer then I would probably lean that way. I would try that Geneva again because I've never heard of power being a issue on it. Like I said before you don't really have a bad tub on your list so I would go with 1) tub feel 2) dealer 3) price. I would forget about all the other stuff like ozone and such.
Dropping Jacuzzi for BF means nothing. But I do agree forget about all the other fluff like ozone, ace, jet pacs, double breaker, and go with what feels best to you first. Dealer second, then price.
Agreed, Sundance is never lacking on power. But you haven't tested it yet.
tell that to the investment group that owns Jacuzzi, I don't think they would agree with you lol
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@sainilucky7 I have not made a purchase yet. I did wet test the Artesian and Sundance lines and they both felt great.
Which hot tubs have you been considering/testing? It would be nice to hear another current shopper's feedback.
I am still stuck on Jacuzzi because: a) The dealer is just a pleasure to deal with, I can tell he is transparent, and is 5 minutes from me. b) The jets on the J-335 (especially the lounge) hit all the right places for me. c) The LXL was probably the only hot tub I sat in where all seats fit me perfectly (albeit dry - wet test to come this week).
I am going to check out Dimension-1 this week as well because I have heard good things about them from other dealers, they have a few different models that suit my criteria and they are local to me in SoCal.
Thanks again everyone else for all the feedback!
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I have shortlisted Hot Spring, Caldera and Marquis. But didn't go for wet test yet.
what do you think Jacuzzi's jet performance/Pressure?
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Update: So I've made a purchase!
After first meeting with the D1 dealer and then later going for a wet test, this was a no-brainer. The Aurora fit all my criteria, the seating was the most ergonomically suited to me and their Ultralife shell had the most non-slip surface with the best tactile feel that I have felt in a hot tub. The variety of jets in the different seating positions hit all the right places, felt great, and took longest for any fatigue to set in. Two of the seats have adjustable pillows (with jets in the pillows that fire at your shoulders!) which will allow for different body types to fit well. It also has all the bells and whistles which complete the luxury experience of hot tub life for me. Lighted cup holder (that actually drain into the tub), adjustable water feature, and I added the exterior lighting as well. The dealer was including the WiFi module to allow for smart phone control, but I decided to trade that for the upgraded exterior (more similar to the LXL than the J-335 of the Jacuzzi) and cover.
It was a few hundred dollars more expensive than the Jacuzzi models I had been considering (J-335 $8,550 & LXL 8,950) vs. $9,300 for the D1 Aurora, but in my mind offered much more bang for the buck.
@sanilucky7 Jacuzzi was a close second to me overall (including jet performance)
@everyone else - Thanks for the help! If anyone has any comments/questions, feel free to continue this discussion :)
I will post follow-ups when I get my hot tub installed (3-4 weeks from now). PUMPED!
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Dimension One makes one of the best tubs available, quietly.
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I would just say, stay away from Sundance, really bad experience there. 2015 we bought a new Sundance said it was a 2015. Once we got it, it was wrong and the inside number said 2014 model. Then this dealer became another brand and we are stuck I can't use it without help (Disabled) because the 2015 model had handbars the 2014 did not, so very sour on Sundance, it's going to costs me $343.99 to get a step with handles. We can't just get the hand bar as it needs to go under the hot tub and we can't move it.
So after all the homework do your homework on the local dealer and check his BBB rating. Ask if he plans to change branding. If had to do over I'd go Hot Springs Jet Setter...
we checked out Marquis at the time, but the dealer was so new to them and just this year they stopped selling them so we no longer have a Marquis dealer...
You have a hard choice...
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I would just say, stay away from Sundance, really bad experience there. 2015 we bought a new Sundance said it was a 2015. Once we got it, it was wrong and the inside number said 2014 model. Then this dealer became another brand and we are stuck I can't use it without help (Disabled) because the 2015 model had handbars the 2014 did not, so very sour on Sundance, it's going to costs me $343.99 to get a step with handles. We can't just get the hand bar as it needs to go under the hot tub and we can't move it.
So after all the homework do your homework on the local dealer and check his BBB rating. Ask if he plans to change branding. If had to do over I'd go Hot Springs Jet Setter...
we checked out Marquis at the time, but the dealer was so new to them and just this year they stopped selling them so we no longer have a Marquis dealer...
You have a hard choice...
It doesn't sound to me like Sundance is your problem. Sounds like your dealer is.
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I would just say, stay away from Sundance, really bad experience there. 2015 we bought a new Sundance said it was a 2015. Once we got it, it was wrong and the inside number said 2014 model. Then this dealer became another brand and we are stuck I can't use it without help (Disabled) because the 2015 model had handbars the 2014 did not, so very sour on Sundance, it's going to costs me $343.99 to get a step with handles. We can't just get the hand bar as it needs to go under the hot tub and we can't move it.
So after all the homework do your homework on the local dealer and check his BBB rating. Ask if he plans to change branding. If had to do over I'd go Hot Springs Jet Setter...
we checked out Marquis at the time, but the dealer was so new to them and just this year they stopped selling them so we no longer have a Marquis dealer...
You have a hard choice...
It doesn't sound to me like Sundance is your problem. Sounds like your dealer is.
+1 there. None of that is the fault of Sundance. It's your dealer who failed you
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Does your paperwork for the purchase specify the model you chose. They should make good on that. I'd contact Sundance for sure with the proof of purchase. File a complaint on BBB.org.
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Sorry got the date wrong but I do have some memory issues due to the disabilities. Year was 2014 Paperwork (or ) sales document says "2014 New" hot tub, however the tub is a 2013.
so yes my paperwork has it as 2014(new), tub is 2013 tried telling Sundance the company no help. as Dealer is no longer Sundance dealer, no help. Did everything I could think of to do, no help from anyone and Sundance should've help us. It is their product. So both Dealer and Sundance failed us. I even sent Sundance a copy of the sale receipt saying 2014, their excuse "we made 2014 tubs in 2013," really! then the sales document should've said 2013 (new). Sundance will make a loop hole! Tried the BBB, and Sundance got away with the scam, they scammed a disabled person and got away with it. statue of limitations is over...
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Sorry got the date wrong but I do have some memory issues due to the disabilities. Year was 2014 Paperwork (or ) sales document says "2014 New" hot tub, however the tub is a 2013.
so yes my paperwork has it as 2014(new), tub is 2013 tried telling Sundance the company no help. as Dealer is no longer Sundance dealer, no help. Did everything I could think of to do, no help from anyone and Sundance should've help us. It is their product. So both Dealer and Sundance failed us. I even sent Sundance a copy of the sale receipt saying 2014, their excuse "we made 2014 tubs in 2013," really! then the sales document should've said 2013 (new). Sundance will make a loop hole! Tried the BBB, and Sundance got away with the scam, they scammed a disabled person and got away with it. statue of limitations is over...
That has absolutely nothing to do with Sundance. They didn't sell you the tub the dealer did. Sundance didn't pull any "scam" your dealer did. I hate when manufacturers get slammed for something that they have no control over. And no I'm not a Sundance dealer, have never been one and actually they are my competition. They make a quality product. When did you bring this up with the dealer? Why didn't you refuse delivery if it wasn't what they said it was?
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Sorry got the date wrong but I do have some memory issues due to the disabilities. Year was 2014 Paperwork (or ) sales document says "2014 New" hot tub, however the tub is a 2013.
so yes my paperwork has it as 2014(new), tub is 2013 tried telling Sundance the company no help. as Dealer is no longer Sundance dealer, no help. Did everything I could think of to do, no help from anyone and Sundance should've help us. It is their product. So both Dealer and Sundance failed us. I even sent Sundance a copy of the sale receipt saying 2014, their excuse "we made 2014 tubs in 2013," really! then the sales document should've said 2013 (new). Sundance will make a loop hole! Tried the BBB, and Sundance got away with the scam, they scammed a disabled person and got away with it. statue of limitations is over...
That has absolutely nothing to do with Sundance. They didn't sell you the tub the dealer did. Sundance didn't pull any "scam" your dealer did. I hate when manufacturers get slammed for something that they have no control over. And no I'm not a Sundance dealer, have never been one and actually they are my competition. They make a quality product. When did you bring this up with the dealer? Why didn't you refuse delivery if it wasn't what they said it was?
Plus one! My guess is they were selling an older floor mdl and this "disabled" person read it the wrong way. Either way Sundance is not liable for this at all. I could go on, but it wouldn't be nice. So I will just let it go here.