Hot Tub Forum
General => Beating a dead horse => Topic started by: Kyle on November 11, 2005, 08:16:23 pm
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Why are Hot Springs & Marquis one of the only manufacturers to state energy consumption in writing on their web sites? I haven't seen any TP manufacturers post anything. I know a manufacturer who had their TP tested and never released the results. :-X Hmmmm? Eventually the tested truth will come out.
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Simply put I have had it explained that it is because they are the only companies that have subjected themselves to a governmentally approved research studies like Energy Wizard and Energy Guide instead of paying an independent company to come up with the answers they wanted.
My guess is that you will soon see spas rated and regulated as appliances and all be required to meet the same standards for energy testing.
I also believe that due to unjust temp regulations being recommended you will see much of the industry pull away from UL.....
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What unjust temp regulations?
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LOL - have you read the reports?
The Hotspring test is based on a measly 115V spa with weak pumps used for a grand total of 1 1/2 hours a week with the jets on in a controlled environment and no lower than 50F.
Sure the Marquis shows more models, but it's going in an environmentally controlled chamber and it goes no lower than 50F also. The jump between 50F and 70F is substantial. I wonder what 30F looks like?
They only cost pennies per day - sure at 70F. What about at 20F or 30F?
It seem they reported only the results that looked good for them against no one else.
These results are no more proof of anything than the ARC results, which also were independent by the way and had to be performed in a controlled environment. From what I've seen, ARC is a respected institute. Unlike these tests, the ARC took into account that in some places, it gets below 50F.
I'm really not sure what the purpose of the statement by Mr. Kyle was other than to see how quickly his post could be moved into BADH. You know you could have accomplished it just as fast by placing Arctic in the title. ;D
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They only cost pennies per day - sure at 70F. What about at 20F or 30F?
It jumps to nickels.
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It jumps to nickels.
Pennies was a sarcastic quote off the Marquis website. 0.80/day for the Epic at 50F with a grand total of 1 1/2 hours per week of use equates to more than pennies/day. If these are so called govt numbers for spa energy use and they are as accurate as fuel economy estimates for cars, assume a higher cost of use, especially if you are in it more than 1 1/2 hours/week.
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Why are Hot Springs & Marquis one of the only manufacturers to state energy consumption in writing on their web sites? I haven't seen any TP manufacturers post anything. I know a manufacturer who had their TP tested and never released the results. :-X Hmmmm? Eventually the tested truth will come out.
Who cares!!!!
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Being a consumer and not a dealer, this parallels my hot tub buying experience. Each manufacturer has some kind of gimmick, each one claims to have this or that better than the other. Most of it is just misinformation. Why to some manufactures list horsepower as BHP (breakdown horse power) vs. HP. I caught this reading about the spas but I bet it fools most consumers. Some manufactures pay for a “Best Buy” tag from Consumers Digest magazine. What would be nice is a review by an independent publication like Consumer Reports.
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Ok my two cents! For those of you that are lerking and shopping for hot tubs. Remember 1 ultimate thing and your shopping experience will be a little easier.
1......ALWAYS WET TEST!!!!!!!! Wet testing gives you the feel for the tub..play with the buttons, the diverter valves and the air valves (if it's got any). This is CRUCIAL to buying a hot tub, you wouldn't buy a car without test driving right?
Other than that, take in what you want with these dealers...use this site for some ultimate questions and what to look for don't let the dealer dominate the onversation ans always ask questions when your unsure!
Hope this helps.....Happy Shopping!
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All I know is that when I built my house I told them to leave the walls empty.
I figured that heat will be "trapped" between the drywall and the vinyl siding.
Plus, if i need to do any repairs to my electrical, I won't have to dig through all that insulation.
Michigan winter coming, wish me luck!!!
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All I know is that when I built my house I told them to leave the walls empty.
I figured that heat will be "trapped" between the drywall and the vinyl siding.
Plus, if i need to do any repairs to my electrical, I won't have to dig through all that insulation.
Michigan winter coming, wish me luck!!!
Amen!
Terminator
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All I know is that when I built my house I told them to leave the walls empty.
I figured that heat will be "trapped" between the drywall and the vinyl siding.
Plus, if i need to do any repairs to my electrical, I won't have to dig through all that insulation.
Michigan winter coming, wish me luck!!!
Thinking back to a few winters ago when I spent much of Nov/Dec. in Port Huron (same year Sarnia, Ontario mall collapsed)...Good Luck!!
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Thinking back to a few winters ago when I spent much of Nov/Dec. in Port Huron (same year Sarnia, Ontario mall collapsed)...Good Luck!!
Not the prettiest part of our state. I'm sorry you had to go through that.
As far as weather, things don't get too bad around here until Jan./Feb. so you missed the fun stuff!
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I'm not an engineer...but I know in Florida with the heat we wouldn't think of not using insulation. Is it that different with the cold?? I just can't imagine not using insulation...doesn't your code/inspection require it??
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I'm not an engineer...but I know in Florida with the heat we wouldn't think of not using insulation. Is it that different with the cold?? I just can't imagine not using insulation...doesn't your code/inspection require it??
He's scratchin' your leg, cappykat. A lot of people have been doing that lately, except for me. I'm a Southern gentleman. :)
Terminator
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He's scratchin' your leg, cappykat. A lot of people have been doing that lately, except for me. I'm a Southern gentleman. :)
Terminator
Apparently it's not just your leg, Cappykat; mine too, hook line and sinker!...as they say, "Two fools born a minute" ;D
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He's scratchin' your leg, cappykat. A lot of people have been doing that lately, except for me. I'm a Southern gentleman. :)
Terminator
So what exactly have you been scratchin? ;)
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Whatever itches!
Actually, today I've been scratchin' my head wondering where the customers are. I was swamped yesterday and today, nada! Part of the problem was that one of my customers was beating on the door at 1:15. I had the OPEN sign on but forgot to unlock the door. :o
Terminator
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Sorry Cappykat and ssbraun!
Just a sarcastic yankee poking holes in certain sales pitches.
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Sorry Cappykat and ssbraun!
Just a sarcastic yankee poking holes in certain sales pitches.
No apology needed! That's what makes this forum not only informative, but fun!! Anyway, I'm on the same page with ya now ;)
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Uh, yeah, I sell a full foam brand of spas, but in my estimation it is neither here nor there. Full foam or thermo whatever, they both work fine. Sit in and try out the spas you are interested in. Which ever one you like best is the one to buy. Consumer Reports will probably never test spas. I used to write them a letter every year(actualy just reprint the one I had saved in "my documents") requesting it. Never got a response and to date, no tests have been performed :( The reason as I understand it for not testing is not enough demand.
Sorry Cappykat and ssbraun!
Just a sarcastic yankee poking holes in certain sales pitches.
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Wisoki,
I agree, I don't think the difference should keep anyone from buying the tub they feel most comfortable with. Saving a couple of bucks a month while sitting in a tub that doesn't fit you makes no sense.
But logic would tell me the more insulation the better.
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In my mind there are 3 types of spas relative to insulating value: Full Foam, a well insulated thermopane and a poorly insulated thermopane. The first 2 types are good choices, the 3rd is an energy pig. If you inspect the spa closely the 3rd type are pretty obvious.
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Sorry Cappykat and ssbraun!
Just a sarcastic yankee poking holes in certain sales pitches.
Of course you must mean the one that started the thread suggesting superiority of the FF method with flawed energy use reports........... ::)
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In my mind there are 3 types of spas relative to insulating value: Full Foam, a well insulated thermopane and a poorly insulated thermopane. The first 2 types are good choices, the 3rd is an energy pig. If you inspect the spa closely the 3rd type are pretty obvious.
ST, you forgot about a 4th type and a 5th type. Alot of brands are partial foam, meaning they have foam srpayed on the shell but not all the way out to the cabinet walls. Then theres the brands that have foam sprayed on the shell and a perimeter insulation. Are these type TP or FF, I would say neither.
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ST, you forgot about a 4th type and a 5th type. Alot of brands are partial foam, meaning they have foam srpayed on the shell but not all the way out to the cabinet walls. Then theres the brands that have foam sprayed on the shell and a perimeter insulation. Are these type TP or FF, I would say neither.
Let me rephrase:
There are 3 insulating methods in my mind: Full Foam, a well insulated non full foam and a poorly insulated non full foam. Methods 1 and 2 are capable of giving you what you want.
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Flawed energy use reports? Please explain. The average temp in the US is 55.5 degrees. The range given is 50 - 70. Usage is 3 times per week. Water temp is at 102. Please explain the "flaw". ???