Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: tmaestas95 on April 12, 2016, 08:34:04 pm
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Hi All,
Getting ready to purchase what I believe will be a Bullfrog R8 (same size as the A8, 2 fewer jetpacks, 94"x94"). My intended location is an existing concrete patio. It has a slight slope, probably not more than 1/2" over 8 feet, however what concerns me more is that the area is also probably not completely flat. There are very slight dips in the area, none more than 1/2" best I can tell. All I've read seems to indicate the most important factor is that the tub be evenly supported across the entire base. Would a few very slight 1/2" dips be a concern? I've pretty much convinced myself that they are (a concern), since I don't want to risk this much of an investment - in which case I would probably proceed with building a frame out of PT 2x4 or 2x6's and filling with 3/4" crushed aggregate, which brings me to my second question - how easy is it to level off crushed rock? I'd hate to trade my existing "mostly flat and mostly level" patio for a "mostly flat and mostly level" crushed base. Would it be easier to level off if I went with sand over the crushed rock and laid pavers? Also, since again the patio has slight dips, should I be concerned about some of the very small gaps that the wood frame would have while on the ground? Should I line the frame with landscape fabric or use silicone or expanding foam? I've seen older posts that suggested these tips both but never saw what the OPs ended up with.
Thanks for any guidance.
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Another option would be to measure out the exact 8' x 8' where the spa will sit and use this: https://www.quikrete.com/productlines/concreteresurfacer.asp (https://www.quikrete.com/productlines/concreteresurfacer.asp) normally I wouldn't recommend a "quick fix" but small 1/2" dips could easily be leveled out with this product, if your slab was chipping away/cracking/heaving/etc. then I would recommend a longer term solution but that doesn't seem to be the case...good luck, I've sold/delivered 2 R8's in the past month, awesome big tub!
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Is this a patio tied in with a larger patio? I'd be concerned how thick it is and the subbase.
If it were me, I'd demo that area, add crushed aggregate, and re pour so I knew that area was sufficient. Also, in many towns, if there is concrete surrounding the tub that you can walk on, you need to have an equipotential bonding grid in the concrete. Just some things to think about.
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What's the difference between, "a few very slight 1/2" dips" and a "a few 1/2" dips"?????
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I did nearly exactly what youre describing, but started with a compacted dirt (removed sod) base. Built a 10'x12' form out of PT 2" x 6" lumber. Filled 2" with inexpensive 7/16 crushed gray aggregate, then leveled using a straight 10' 2"x4" and the longest (4') level I own. Rented a 12" plate compactor and compacted the whole area. Did minor readjusting to hit level again. Placed the tub. Filled the remainder of the form with rock that more closely matched my xeriscaped yard.
Just a couple weeks ago:
(http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a235/KDFrosty/20160404_072219_zps6y2sgqf0.jpg)
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Duplicate post, sorry.
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What's the difference between, "a few very slight 1/2" dips" and a "a few 1/2" dips"?????
Just my imprecision :)
To the naked eye the area seems pretty flat - but a 2x4 laid on the ground has some very small areas where daylight is showing under. The patio is tied to a larger patio, 4" thick, no cracks or other notable deficiencies - and I live in California where the weather is pretty mild. I really want to convince myself that the tub would be fine placed directly on the patio, but better safe than sorry I suppose. i'd really rather not rip the whole thing up as there is a pergola over the top which would complicate things, so I'm still leaning towards a form with crushed rock. Is tamping with a hand tamp an option or is it really better to rent a plate compactor? Any advice on potential gotchas for doing this on top of concrete (as opposed to on a dirt base)?
The quikrete resurfacer idea is an interesting idea, I'll have to look into that some more...
Thanks for the feedback.
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The quikrete resurfacer idea is an interesting idea, I'll have to look into that some more...
Another one is called Topbond...I've used it in the past to repair a cracked garage floor with a 1" drop where the crack appeared. Some 10 years later my friend says it's still solid as any other garage floor they've seen and no issues. I'd just resurface adding a little to compensate for the slope and try to get it dead level.
Originally I was thinking of a crushed gravel base in a pressure treated frame, but since this will likely be my last house and tub placement, I'll probably go with a concrete pad even though it'll be more of a hassle getting it done.
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yeah with a 4" pad I think you're fine. I'd also probably just resurface.
I don't know what your plan is as far as getting the proper permits. But in my town, if there's concrete around teh tub, I'm required to have bonding grid in the concrete.
Just something to think about if you're going the permit route.
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What do you mean by "going the permit route"?...........LOL Any city inspectors hanging around the board? Where safety is concerned for sure know the codes and the reasoning behind them going in, following them is a choice.
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I hate permits. I just dropped 170.00 on one for the roof I put on two years ago. Were doing a re-fi on the house and the appraiser caught that I didn't pull one. So the inspector came out today spent 8 min looking at the roof and another 2 min filling out the paper work. That's 17 bucks a minute ::) I understand they are needed, but for things like that no way.
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I have an email in to my city to see what they technically require permit-wise, but....well....we'll just see what they say. I would for sure like to get my electrical permitted, I just hope that the electrical inspector doesn't turn around and ask about an installation/building permit for the actual tub install (assuming one is required).
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It's going off topic, partly my fault (sorry), but for me I can't just pick and choose what to get.
Like I can't just have electrical inspected, it's all or none. And for me, all was: electrical, plumbing, building, and zoning. $173 + $50 to zoning.
I'm all for safety, but this is just crazy!
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I had the city tell me today they want a building permit for the tub - at an estimated cost of $800! And that's before the electrical permit. You want to talk about crazy? After hearing that, I'd jump for joy if they had told me ~$250....
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I had the city tell me today they want a building permit for the tub - at an estimated cost of $800! And that's before the electrical permit. You want to talk about crazy? After hearing that, I'd jump for joy if they had told me ~$250....
Did you tell them it was a portable hot tub?
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I had the city tell me today they want a building permit for the tub - at an estimated cost of $800! And that's before the electrical permit. You want to talk about crazy? After hearing that, I'd jump for joy if they had told me ~$250....
Did you tell them it was a portable hot tub?
Yes - although I have reiterated it to them in my last reply asking, basically, WTF.
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I had the city tell me today they want a building permit for the tub - at an estimated cost of $800! And that's before the electrical permit. You want to talk about crazy? After hearing that, I'd jump for joy if they had told me ~$250....
a $800 building permit for a hot tub? do they provide lube when you go and pay? In 15 years I've never heard of such a thing
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a $800 building permit for a hot tub? do they provide lube when you go and pay? In 15 years I've never heard of such a thing
Supposedly (still trying to get clarification) the municipal code classifies the tub as a "swimming pool" - the definition for which is: a “Swimming pool” means a pool, pond, lake, or open tank capable of containing water to a depth greater than one and one-half feet at any point. The building permit fee for 1-100sqft is $628, and the plan check fee for same is $136, plus $38 issuance fee. Seems insane to me - if anyone wants to check out my City's fee schedule and tell me if I have any ground to stand on arguing this I'd appreciate it - http://www.cityofamericancanyon.org/home/showdocument?id=987 (section 7).
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Same in my town; not as expensive, but all the same.
It's considered an above ground pool and has to follow all those rules. I too needed building, plumbing, electrical, and zoning.
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It seems "prefabricated swimming pools" with a capacity < 5000 gallons and a depth of <24" are exempt from needing a building permit according to this http://www.cityofamericancanyon.org/home/showdocument?id=5028
I'm pretty sure the Bullfrog R8 is deeper than 24" in the deepest part of the tub, but I'm going to point out this exemption to them and see what they say. Some surrounding cities list the same exemption but without the 24" specification.....
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So I decided to go ahead and start with the frame/gravel idea on top of my existing patio and see where it takes me - can someone take a look at this photo and let me know if I'm moving in the right direction or if I'm way out in left field? I intend to finish this off with a couple inches of stone dust/decomposed granite (same thing, right? No?) With the weight of the tub do I need to be concerned about the frame bowing out or is all the force basically straight down? The frame is screwed 2x6s, with 2x4s attached (screwed) around them and 3 concrete wedge anchors per side drilled into the patio.
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj580/Tim_Maestas/20160423_171838_zpswsd3cyaw.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/Tim_Maestas/media/20160423_171838_zpswsd3cyaw.jpg.html)
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I think it will take the weight fine that way.
It will be a bit more effort getting the tub up on top the pad. I personally wouldn’t like the extra height. I considered setting mine half way into my deck as that would be my ideal height for a hot tub same level as my top step is now. My steps bump up tight to the panel on the side of the tub yours will be set back by the 2x4 and framing. That space you will have to watch getting in and out.
Think about how you want the tub orientated on the pad. We have 6 seats but 3 that get the most use and I wanted them to also have the best views of the yard and stars etc. Also where you get in and out from the steps we placed out stairs so that when you step in you come down on the cool down seat. It is the highest and also the flattest seat and the seat that is the least likely to have someone sitting in it.
Another thing to preplan is where the control panel is located and how much clearance you have for the cover lifter. If in your photo the cover will hinge back in the direction of the planter you will want to be able to get at it from one of the two sides where the benches are to walk it back. Try and have your cover when open in a location that blocking the view in that direction doesn’t matter. The lifter we have takes about 24” of room and we have it flip to the house. Having a space there is nice when the cover is closed to get behind the tub for cleaning and such.
Lastly figure out how your power will be run. I brought mine under the wood deck and thru the base of the tub but yours will have to enter one of the two front corners of the tub. Will you bury the conduit or run it on top of the slab.
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Thanks for the thoughts. Entry into the tub is an area of concern because of the offset caused by the 2x4s as you mentioned - I may just enter from the bench sides, unless I end up extending the frame out further somehow so the steps can sit flush against the tub.
The plan at this point is to have the cover lift back towards the planter box - this will act as a privacy shield against the neighbors in that direction.
I had my electrician out to plan the power run - it will run against the house, which is off-photo to the left behind the bench, then a short run from the house buried under the rocks at the back of the slab and come up at the back side of the frame (the bullfrogs have entrance points on all three non-"front" sides)
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What is the size of that base? I think it would be fine as is, no need for any added stone dust, but that's me.
Since you seem to be handy building stuff? I would build a nice one or two psc removable step from the end of one bench to the other, kind of a wrap around the corner of the spa look. That would hide the raised base, be easier to get in the spa and generally look really nice to finish it off. You could even add a flat spot at each corner for planted pots or something..
And please tell me you didn't pay 800+ for a permit! :-\
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The base is 8'x8'x5.5". Adding stone dust was mostly to more easily level/flatten it out - the base rock/road base that's in there now is giving me fits trying to get it flat and level. Interesting idea with the steps, I'll have to give that some thought.
I came to the conclusion that I was going to...stop interacting with my city's building department regarding this matter :)
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I think the benches will get in your way opening the cover. It looks like on the R8 you will enter stepping over the control panel and the filter compartment will be on the left side then. That position looks like it is the big flat seat so that should be good.
Will you still be using the bench seats once you have the tub in place? You would have to sit with your back to the tub. I have seen setups where something like your bench is higher like table height and people can sit on stools facing the people in the tub. It is nice having something like that next to the tub to hold stuff for the people in the tub also.
Looks like a nice place for a tub.
As to getting the city involved I didn’t mention a thing to anyone. Built the deck set the tub and wired it myself all to code. Every town is different but make sure it is all done correctly/ especially the electrical. Keep your GFCI breaker panel in site of the tub but not too close and test it once a month.
You will love every minute of owning a hot tub.
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For posterity and the archives, thought I'd upload a few final pics showing where I ended up.
Here's the pad finished off with the stone dust
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj580/Tim_Maestas/pad-final_zpsqify0bqi.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/Tim_Maestas/media/pad-final_zpsqify0bqi.jpg.html)
Here's the tub, cover closed. I still need to figure out a final solution for the steps, but shimming them with a left over piece of 2x6 to get them level with the 2x4s surrounding the frame works for the time being.
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj580/Tim_Maestas/final-closed_zpsggaogxqp.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/Tim_Maestas/media/final-closed_zpsggaogxqp.jpg.html)
Cover open:
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj580/Tim_Maestas/final-open_zpsq1ga74ld.jpg) (http://s1268.photobucket.com/user/Tim_Maestas/media/final-open_zpsq1ga74ld.jpg.html)
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Looks great! How are you enjoying your R8? I just closed a deal on one today.
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Looks great! How are you enjoying your R8? I just closed a deal on one today.
Loving it except for one very minor issue which you can read about here if you're so inclined http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,20140.0.html (http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,20140.0.html)
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$800 for permits would upset my stomach. Looks like you found a good solution. Looks nice. Now time for some patio gas lamps??
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Can you get me a pic of where and how you got the electric into the tub?
Thanks
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The Bullfrogs have conduit entrances on all three non-front sides. I used the rear entrance - you just drill out where the marker is (through two layers of plastic) then feed the flex through into the equipment cavity. The disconnect is mounted on the house, the conduit is buried for a short distance over to the tub. My breaker panel is way on the other side of the house so there's quite a long run of conduit around the house.
(http://i1268.photobucket.com/albums/jj580/Tim_Maestas/20160908_100616_zpssj6lrt6z.jpg)
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Thank you, What wire did you run inside? 4 individual #6 rated for underground is what I am thinking?
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Correct.
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How is your base holding up? Do you see any settling issues as this is the route that I am going as well
Thanks
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The base itself is fine and I've seen no noticeable settling thus far. That being said, despite my best efforts, the tub is not completely 100% level but it's pretty darn close. If I had to do it over again I would use a powered compactor to compact the base - I didn't have an easy way to transport a rental compactor so I tamped everything with a hand tamp. The last layer of stone dust probably was not as compacted as it could have been, and when they slid the tub onto the base during delivery it did scrape off some small amount of dust. It's not out of level enough to cause any issues so not really a big deal.
It's not rained here yet since I had the tub installed but I don't really expect that to cause any issues either. The tub covers all but a couple inches of the base on all 4 sides.