Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Conine2965 on July 11, 2017, 08:00:15 pm
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Got free start up kit looking for thoughts or tips and tricks.
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I have used a few cartridges and they seem to work great. I put one in when I know I will be gone for a couple weeks to a month. Selecting the correct setting is the trick.
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It's a great system that works well but I recommend having some granular chlorine on hand. It's such a low chemical system that it can have a hard time keeping up with a sudden heavy bather load. Throw a few teaspoons of dichlor after a heavy usage period and you should be good to go. We've had great luck with this system.
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Can you get the smartchlor in bulk?
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Can you get the smartchlor in bulk?
Not that I know of.
If you could I would just pop the top off he canister and refill my own. Once you put a cartridge in you need to leave it in until it is used up. As Sam mentioned it is compatible with dichlor so that is what I would use for supplemental sanitizer.
The difference between smartchlor and dichlor is the time it takes for it to break down. If you filled your canister with dichlor it wouldn’t go a month it would all be in dilution in your water in a few minutes and your chlorine level would be off the charts. Dichlor is perfect for the quick hit or a daily dose program like I do. It works fast cleans your water and then is almost gone the next day. The smartchlor works slowly and all the time, and in the end does the same job.
The problem happens when you have your cartridge set for the two of you using the tub for 45 minutes per day after showering and then the weekend comes and you have friends over and the tub gets 3 times the usage and your friends forget to rinse their swimsuits 100% and maybe they used some body lotion etc. Sunday morning you get up for a morning soak with drinking your coffee and you find your tub cloudy and smelling funky. The slight dose the system was set at wasn’t enough. If you would have added a tablespoon of dichlor Saturday night before bed you would have woke up to a sparkling clean tub.
It is so much easier to correct a problem before it happens rather than after. The hardest thing people new to hot tubs do is trying to keep the sanitizer level too perfect on the low end. I had no clue when we started how much 5PPM was or how strong these things were or how bad they would be if they were higher. When I started using Clorox bleach it came into perspective better because we all use bleach for cleaning and laundry. Now I’m looking at 400 gallons of water and I’m putting less bleach in it than I would a load of whites or a bucket of water for cleaning and then I measure the PPM and the light came on it doesn’t take a huge amount of this stuff to clean your water. 5PPM is really a small amount. Don’t be afraid to use a little when you think you need it.
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Can you get the smartchlor in bulk?
Not that I know of.
If you could I would just pop the top off he canister and refill my own. Once you put a cartridge in you need to leave it in until it is used up. As Sam mentioned it is compatible with dichlor so that is what I would use for supplemental sanitizer.
The difference between smartchlor and dichlor is the time it takes for it to break down. If you filled your canister with dichlor it wouldn’t go a month it would all be in dilution in your water in a few minutes and your chlorine level would be off the charts. Dichlor is perfect for the quick hit or a daily dose program like I do. It works fast cleans your water and then is almost gone the next day. The smartchlor works slowly and all the time, and in the end does the same job.
The problem happens when you have your cartridge set for the two of you using the tub for 45 minutes per day after showering and then the weekend comes and you have friends over and the tub gets 3 times the usage and your friends forget to rinse their swimsuits 100% and maybe they used some body lotion etc. Sunday morning you get up for a morning soak with drinking your coffee and you find your tub cloudy and smelling funky. The slight dose the system was set at wasn’t enough. If you would have added a tablespoon of dichlor Saturday night before bed you would have woke up to a sparkling clean tub.
It is so much easier to correct a problem before it happens rather than after. The hardest thing people new to hot tubs do is trying to keep the sanitizer level too perfect on the low end. I had no clue when we started how much 5PPM was or how strong these things were or how bad they would be if they were higher. When I started using Clorox bleach it came into perspective better because we all use bleach for cleaning and laundry. Now I’m looking at 400 gallons of water and I’m putting less bleach in it than I would a load of whites or a bucket of water for cleaning and then I measure the PPM and the light came on it doesn’t take a huge amount of this stuff to clean your water. 5PPM is really a small amount. Don’t be afraid to use a little when you think you need it.
Good post. After doing this for so many years it's hard to think about things from the perspective of someone new to this. I take for granted that 5ppm doesn't mean much to most people.
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Thanks for info. I had a previous hot tub used chlorine this is first time I had inline. So I should just add alittle extra dichlor when I have a heavy better load? What about shock they say to use a,non chlorine shock is that what you use and how often?
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Thanks for info. I had a previous hot tub used chlorine this is first time I had inline. So I should just add alittle extra dichlor when I have a heavy better load? What about shock they say to use a,non chlorine shock is that what you use and how often?
I would say that also depends on bather load. In our case two people using a 6 person tub we shock between once a week and every other week. I kind of go by how the water looks. When it looses its sparkle that’s a sign it needs it.
Others may have a more scientific method.
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Can you get the smartchlor in bulk?
I do not know if you can or not but would like to know. I have measured the dry weight of a new @ease floater cartridge at 8.4oz and an empty one at 2.4oz which mean they are filled with 6 dry oz by weight of the smartchlor chlorine. If we can find a source I am sure we could figure out a way to refill the floaters and save some money.
Since this is a thread about inline there is a separate topic (which I cannot find) where someone measured the inline cartridge and reported it contained about 1 cup (liquid measure cup not dry weight) of smartchlor.
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I would love to refill for 12.99 which is the cheapest I have found for cartridges. I could by almost 3 pounds of dichlor.
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If you want cheapest method, use dichlor. Or bleach. Mineral systems are a little pricier, but make for nicer water. Salt systems are priciest, but make the most natural water. You can't have it all. There are trade offs. Make a choice.
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If you want cheapest method, use dichlor. Or bleach. Mineral systems are a little pricier, but make for nicer water. Salt systems are priciest, but make the most natural water. You can't have it all. There are trade offs. Make a choice.
100% Spot On! If you want to save money and become a chemist in the process you can go to various hardware stores and source a gallon of muriatic acid, couple jugs of bleach, some baking soda and learn how to manage it...if you want convenience you'll pay more for mineral sticks, convenient pre-packaged floating cartridges, water conditioners, salt systems, etc.
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Can you get the smartchlor in bulk?
I do not know if you can or not but would like to know. I have measured the dry weight of a new @ease floater cartridge at 8.4oz and an empty one at 2.4oz which mean they are filled with 6 dry oz by weight of the smartchlor chlorine. If we can find a source I am sure we could figure out a way to refill the floaters and save some money.
Since this is a thread about inline there is a separate topic (which I cannot find) where someone measured the inline cartridge and reported it contained about 1 cup (liquid measure cup not dry weight) of smartchlor.
I started the thread where I measured the contents of the @ease container and use part of it each time I go away for a week or two.
https://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/forum/index.php/topic,19861.msg197052.html#msg197052
My problem with cost is only secondary. I started out with the inline Frog bromine and my major problem was I felt the dispensing rate was not constant thru the life of the cartridge and our bather load would go up and down and I was all the time pulling the cartridge out and changing the setting. I didn’t try the @ease smart-chlor enough to know if it would be the same problem but some of the posts show it is a good idea to supplement that also when load is high.
Once I saw the cost savings to just doing it all manually as I was still doing a lot of the other steps manually anyway. I figured what is one more step. If I’m checking the water anyway to just dump in a small amount of bleach.
The set it and forget it part never worked for me.
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What is so 'Smart' about the chemicals used in the @Ease system? Or is the design of the cartridge what is 'Smart'? If it is the cartridge dispensing system that is 'Smart' then why can the cartridge not be refilled with the correct chemicals and save some money in the process?
The active ingredients in the @ease system is follows.
Active Ingredients:
1.3-dichloro-5, 5-Dimethylhydantoin 81.1%
1.3-dichloro-5-ethyl-5-methylhydantoin 16.1%
Other Ingredients: 2.8%
Total: 100.0%
FYI: this is the same chemical formulation as DANTOCHLOR from Lonza (Could this be one and the same as 'Smartchlor"?)
http://bio.lonza.com/uploads/tx_mwaxmarketingmaterial/Lonza_ProductDataSheets_Dantochlor_PDS.pdf
http://patents.justia.com/patent/20140369886
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Looks like the same stuff any idea where you can buy it
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Looks like the same stuff any idea where you can buy it
Happens to also be the active ingredients in a product called 2000 Flushes 8)
https://www.amazon.com/2000-290074-Chlorine-Antibacterial-Automatic/dp/B013THF84S/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1500428656&sr=8-2&keywords=2000+flushes
I did send a note off to Lonza and ask for a list of distributors/resellers. Will post their reply
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Kinda missing the point on @ease: The FREE chlorine (it is a di-chlor but an entirely different type of di-chlor than what most people are accustomed to) is supposed to be low: 0.5-1.0ppm. The TOTAL chlorine is supposed to be 10-15ppm. Thus- it is meant to be able to handle small or large bather loads. The nature of the di-chlor is to release one atom into the water as free, and one in reserve, whereas di-chlor releases both.
If you're adding bleach, etc, with regularity, you are defeating the purpose of @ease. I am not for/against bleach method, but the poster asked specifically about @ease. If you're more comfortable dosing daily- do that and nix the @ease. But if you do not want to deal with it on a daily basis, stick to the script.
The key w/@ease, and this is where everyone goes wrong, is pH: It has to stay between 7.4-7.8. Keep it there, and you'll be fine, inasmuch as you keep your tub at 94F or hotter. Most people allow the pH to slip, then fall into the old habit of adding di-chlor. With *that much* reserve chlorine, clearing the unit up is easy if you rebalance the pH/alkalinity.
I have found that the JUMP START (which is essentially a traditional di-chlor) is helpful if used once a week vs. once a month.
Hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
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Kinda missing the point on @ease: The FREE chlorine (it is a di-chlor but an entirely different type of di-chlor than what most people are accustomed to) is supposed to be low: 0.5-1.0ppm. The TOTAL chlorine is supposed to be 10-15ppm. Thus- it is meant to be able to handle small or large bather loads. The nature of the di-chlor is to release one atom into the water as free, and one in reserve, whereas di-chlor releases both.
If you're adding bleach, etc, with regularity, you are defeating the purpose of @ease. I am not for/against bleach method, but the poster asked specifically about @ease. If you're more comfortable dosing daily- do that and nix the @ease. But if you do not want to deal with it on a daily basis, stick to the script.
The key w/@ease, and this is where everyone goes wrong, is pH: It has to stay between 7.4-7.8. Keep it there, and you'll be fine, inasmuch as you keep your tub at 94F or hotter. Most people allow the pH to slip, then fall into the old habit of adding di-chlor. With *that much* reserve chlorine, clearing the unit up is easy if you rebalance the pH/alkalinity.
I have found that the JUMP START (which is essentially a traditional di-chlor) is helpful if used once a week vs. once a month.
Hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
Thank you, I also have been adding a shock once per week instead of once a month as recommended by the folks at Frog. Your note indicates a di-chlor shock would be better than MPS in the @ease system?
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The JUMP START is essentially another form of di-chlor so yes.
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I'm adding dichlor twice a week. But we have been using a lot since tub is new
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Depends on what you are using as your main sanitizer: If it is just di-chlor then that is common. More information is required to answer that question.
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I think they are using the @ease and supplementing with dichlor.
I was doing something similar in the beginning only with the frog bromine cartridges. My thoughts were the automatic system isn’t really automatic if you have to measure it regularly and then tweak it by adding something. If I have to add a teaspoon here and there I might as well just give it a tablespoon or a few shots of Clorox and be done.
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*if* they are using @ease (and this thread isn't completely clear as to them being on it or considering it) there really is no need for di-chlor supplementation as as often as they've noted as the baseline is supposed to be 0.5-1.0ppm. If you're having issues with cloudiness, you've yet to consistently keep the pH in line, between 7.4-7.8.
Though I have found that the JUMP START is more ideal once a week vs monthly, so to totally be fai,r adding di-chlor isn't a bad play. But- It shouldn't be a thing you do regularly unless you've checked off all the boxes (is the temp 94F or higher? Is the pH set? Is the @ease cartridge on the right setting based on gallonage? so on so forth) or if you're usage habits are considered HEAVY.
@ease is no different than other niche products out there (SilkBalance, BaquaSpa, et al) in that it has its own process and it should be adhered too. Too often people take general approaches that work on a more traditional water chemistry system and try to apply it to the niched system. That is usually not recommended. . .
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Just found this thread, reviving it because I am curious about snmartchlor replacements. If this 2000 flush product has the exact same label, which it does...can I not use it to replace the insides of these cartridge? I use to use the bromine ones and I opened them up to put bromine tabs in them. The smartchlor things are so damn expensive. Basically equates to $15 a month just in chlorine...
I may be willing to buy it and try it, not that I would really know how to tell if its working or not..
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Just found this thread, reviving it because I am curious about snmartchlor replacements. If this 2000 flush product has the exact same label, which it does...can I not use it to replace the insides of these cartridge? I use to use the bromine ones and I opened them up to put bromine tabs in them. The smartchlor things are so damn expensive. Basically equates to $15 a month just in chlorine...
I may be willing to buy it and try it, not that I would really know how to tell if its working or not..
If you use your tub everyday or even every other day I find it really simple to just toss in a tablespoon of dichlor when I get out I hit clean close the tub and forget it. There is no reason to test it every day. But about once a week I do a test strip and then make any adjustments needed. Once I hit my mark of 30-50ppm on stabilizer I switch from a tablespoon of dichlor to 1/3 cup of bleach.
This method is as cheap as I have found and the best for the tub as I’m always keeping an eye on things. The only drawback I found is it doesn’t provide protection when we are away for a week or more. Anything under a week I just hit it hard right before we leave with a shock dose of dichlor or bleach. Over a week I pop in an @ease cartridge that I load with just enough @ease to last for as long as we will be away. The other method is to have a neighbor come over.
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I dont use the tub much nor do i want to deal with it everyday. Reslly just curious if this stuff that i linked is what is in the smartchlor cartridge. Seems to be..
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Just found this thread, reviving it because I am curious about snmartchlor replacements. If this 2000 flush product has the exact same label, which it does...can I not use it to replace the insides of these cartridge? I use to use the bromine ones and I opened them up to put bromine tabs in them. The smartchlor things are so damn expensive. Basically equates to $15 a month just in chlorine...
I may be willing to buy it and try it, not that I would really know how to tell if its working or not..
If you use your tub everyday or even every other day I find it really simple to just toss in a tablespoon of dichlor when I get out I hit clean close the tub and forget it. There is no reason to test it every day. But about once a week I do a test strip and then make any adjustments needed. Once I hit my mark of 30-50ppm on stabilizer I switch from a tablespoon of dichlor to 1/3 cup of bleach.
This method is as cheap as I have found and the best for the tub as I’m always keeping an eye on things. The only drawback I found is it doesn’t provide protection when we are away for a week or more. Anything under a week I just hit it hard right before we leave with a shock dose of dichlor or bleach. Over a week I pop in an @ease cartridge that I load with just enough @ease to last for as long as we will be away. The other method is to have a neighbor come over.
Honestly, this is probably the best method I've seen. Bang for buck you can't beat it and it's pretty easy too.
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Just got a brand new Artesian Isla Margarita Elite, with @ease inlin. Now since it's new, we are using it 1-2 times/day for 30 min each, but the smartchlor cartridge was empty at 2 weeks... no way on paying $30/month JUST for those catridges... granular chlorine is like 1/5 that cost.. $40 for 6 month supply. Mainly following people here and throwing 1/2 or so in after each use and water seems great.
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Just found this thread, reviving it because I am curious about snmartchlor replacements. If this 2000 flush product has the exact same label, which it does...can I not use it to replace the insides of these cartridge? I use to use the bromine ones and I opened them up to put bromine tabs in them. The smartchlor things are so damn expensive. Basically equates to $15 a month just in chlorine...
I may be willing to buy it and try it, not that I would really know how to tell if its working or not..
The test strips that come with the startup pack of @ease have a spot to see if smartchlor needs replaced. I'd be pretty interested in this as well, could easily crush them up and refill cartidges.
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Just got a brand new Artesian Isla Margarita Elite, with @ease inlin. Now since it's new, we are using it 1-2 times/day for 30 min each, but the smartchlor cartridge was empty at 2 weeks... no way on paying $30/month JUST for those catridges... granular chlorine is like 1/5 that cost.. $40 for 6 month supply. Mainly following people here and throwing 1/2 or so in after each use and water seems great.
Did you put it in at fillup or wait until the water was up to temp?
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I put the mineral and smartchlor in once the tub was at temp.
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The ph and alkalinity were pretty low to start and took me a couple days to get up and level, would that have affected it that much? Also, calcium hardness was very low at 50ppm, but I waited a week or so to adjust that to 150 rpm. Alkalinity is like 120ish and ph probably around 7.4-6 last time I checked. Test strips for @ease were showing completely white on top part that says to replace smartchlor, so I started dosing with granular chlorine after every use now. Brand new to this so any advice is welcome!
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One more question for you. Do you have a circulation pump or do you use one of the main pumps to filter water? If main pump what are your filter settings set for?
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Low pH will cause the SmartChlor cartridge to dissolve quicker. I also don't believe hardness will have anything to do with that. Your hot tub is 550 gallons, in my opinion, you would be lucky to get 3 weeks out of a cartridge.
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One more question for you. Do you have a circulation pump or do you use one of the main pumps to filter water? If main pump what are your filter settings set for?
I have 24/7 circ pump
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One more question for you. Do you have a circulation pump or do you use one of the main pumps to filter water? If main pump what are your filter settings set for?
I have 24/7 circ pump
I didn’t realize your tub was 550 gallons. Agree with you would be lucky to get a couple weeks out of each cartridge. That’s a big tub!
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Good to know. And even with granular chlorine, bottle says 1/4 to 1/8 oz per day per 500g and I'm putting more like 3/4 to 1oz and its nearly not showing up on test strips after 20 hours (<.5 ppm). I guess that's not a bad thing if it's doing its job, just seems like I'm needing more than recommended amount.
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I just heard about this system and thought it might work for us in our vacation rental. The convenience/peace of mind would have been worth the expense, if we didn't have to worry about our sanitizer level going down when guests are there for 3 nights or 7 or whatever. Our bromine floater doesn't seem to be doing its job. It was explained that the system would know when and how much chlorine to add. (And that you'd only need to shock monthly). But I see now it won't work since there is a setting. And we might have 2 guests or 7 and some may have kids and use it heavily and others not.
Buba the 1st ingredient you showed (81%) is what my bromine tablets are (86%).
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Just bought a Grand Bahama Elite -- arriving in a month or so. Was wondering -- could you swap the smart-chlor cartridges and use bromine cartridges instead in the inline system? First tub but from what I've read, bromine is a bit easier to maintain. If so, what would you use to supplement on heavy bather load?
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Just bought a Grand Bahama Elite -- arriving in a month or so. Was wondering -- could you swap the smart-chlor cartridges and use bromine cartridges instead in the inline system? First tub but from what I've read, bromine is a bit easier to maintain. If so, what would you use to supplement on heavy bather load?
The cartridge system that @ease chlorine comes in the frog system also has bromine cartridges and you use a packet of starter bromine powder when filling to jump start your bromine bank. For additional sanitizing for heavy bather loads etc you use dichlor. When adding dichlor to a bromine tub the bromine in the tub acts on the dichlor and converts it to bromine.
As to what is better and simpler my experiences with bromine have been anything but simple. Bromine unlike Chlorine need to maintain a reserve in the tub called a bank. The action of killing things traps the bromine and makes it unusable and the process of shocking releases the bromine back again. That is quite over simplified but it is the short explanation from myself a non expert.
Chlorine is much more straight forward IMO as it has direct cause and effect. After doing bromine and then @ease in the once a month containers. I was always checking levels and tweaking and never sure when a cartridge was empty and the dispense rate seem to vary throughout the life of the cartridge so I was taking the cartridge out and shaking it to see if it had stuff in it and then changing the setting and adding some dichlor anyway. I figured why not just add a little more dichlor save the money on cartridges and spend less time on the tub in the process. I now just use the cartridges when I’m going away for a week or more.