Hot Tub Forum
General => Beating a dead horse => Topic started by: concerned on May 10, 2011, 03:39:29 pm
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Has anyone seen the Vanishing Edge Hot Tubs that Coast Spas are building ? Wow! I found them on facebook.....very cool.
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We have made fun of them over several years here since I first saw them around 5 years ago. My first impression was that these are 4 person spas taking up the room of a 6 person spa ;) OTher than this one, Coast does make some good looking spas.
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I see 2 different ones. why would you make fun of this? I also see it won awards....OK, thank you.
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*sniff* *sniff* *sniff*....smells like spam to me.
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I am a Coast dealer and I have the Phantom (Cascade III) filled on my showroom. The vanishing edge is cool and does add to the overall ambiance.
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I am a Coast dealer and I have the Phantom (Cascade III) filled on my showroom. The vanishing edge is cool and does add to the overall ambiance.
I should look at more recent models if they are at III. The first one I saw made me laugh for a week, and it still does when I look at it. I think I have the photo somewhere to make sure we are talking about the same thing.
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OOH, the vanishing edge spa, really it make look cool from the outside but , can you really see it work in the dark, also you lose a couple seats, for the dollar i think you can get more spa than that, Don't get me wrong it looks great and brings something different to the hot tubs,, awards it won, who gave them out? How about operation when it 10 degrees out and your in the tub and its running water over the side,, heating the water again , i Think it would cool down faster>>>just my opinion
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Thank you all for your opinions. I really am looking for someone who actually knows something about these, not comments about how some of you laughed at one or that the it looks cool from the outside as the actual view is from the inside. The one I like seats 8 and has a cover, it's 9 foot long.
thank you all I am satified with the comments. good luck in your selling....
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Concerned, what info exactly are you looking for? The one that is 9' or close is the Niagara. I have the Journey on my floor which is the same except without the vanishing edge so between that and my Phantom I should be able to answer any questions about the spa.
elf The Spa Guy, it does look nice from the inside but you are correct in that you do lose seating compared to a spa of the same size without the vanishing edge. The trough for the vanishing edge is heated just like the rest of the spa water so I don't believe it should cost more to operate in colder climates then a spa without it but I don't have feedback or data to back that up as I just recently brought this model in.
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Castletonia,
Thanks for the input, I assume it is heated with the flo thru heater, not a seperate heater in the trough.....does that water also go through a filter from the trough first before going into the pumps? just a question oi thought of. Thanks
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Has anyone seen the Vanishing Edge Hot Tubs that Coast Spas are building ? Wow! I found them on facebook.....very cool.
When someone new comes here for their first post and has no question but simply wants to tell us how cool something looks I'm with Doc, that smells like Spam (which smells like a lot like Alpo).
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Thank you all for your opinions. I really am looking for someone who actually knows something about these, not comments about how some of you laughed at one or that the it looks cool from the outside as the actual view is from the inside. The one I like seats 8 and has a cover, it's 9 foot long.
thank you all I am satified with the comments. good luck in your selling....
How did you know I am in sales? Do you need any load cells or pressure sensors? I can help you out! Maybe a little skin thickener?
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I also am a Coast spa dealer as well as an owner. While the Cascade series may not be for everyone (Coast offers more spa models than anyone I've ever found) it has some unique characteristics that you can't find anywhere else.
The Cascade series spa is perfect for the person who would like an unobstructed view. Picture it overlooking a great view!
It is wonderful for people who would like to have not only a spa but also a water feature for the deck. If you like the soothing sound of a waterfall you will love it. If you have neck and shoulder issues the 2 foot waterfall is the best neck jet ever. It does what you had hoped other neck jets would do.
It also gives you a high cool down seat with jets on your lower back and the waterfall keeps you from getting too cold while still allowing you to lower your core temp. Heavenly for those of us over 50's with temp issues!!!
The spa will maintain your water level which I personally enjoy since I am on the short side. This way I don't get too deep when more people get in the spa.
The seat in front of the spillover is also a favorite. Not only do you have great jet action but you also have the sensation of water flowing past you. I have never felt that in a spa before and it is very desirable!
As usual, the problem with these forums is not really knowing who you are talking to. True consumers trying to find out information should always remember that. There are more sales people trying to slam the competition than you realize.
So Concerned, I hope this answered some of your questions and inspires you to go see a Cascade in person. It is a unique product. (and let's not forget the " coolness factor")
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spa goddess,
welcome to the forum.... we appreciate your opinions,,,, but.....
your first comment that Coast offers more spa models than anyone you have found.
How long have you been in the industry ?
1)Did you know
Coast including the Tublicious and Wellness......29
Arctic Including all lines except Apollo..............51
Cal Spas ................ Over 150 models
Catalina Including all lines..................................27
Clearwater not including private label lines...............27
Hot Springs not including all Watkins lines................8
Jacuzzi .............................22
D1 including all lines....................................23
Sunbelt included all lines...................over 50 models...
Sundance included all lines....................................22
These are just a few... but with your statement is not correct
2) Unique characteristics, Your right the vanishing edge is unique, but remember all brands have soemthing unique to their lines that is part of what makes them different.
3) I agree it is a nice feature on a deck with water feature, Do all the jets need to be running for this to work....their are other brands who have great water features run only on a circ pump for instance D1 Bay series spas.
4) Best neck jet ever...hard to believe this, i believe it is your opinion, The " BEST" is hard to prove in any industry.
5)High cool down seat. Most brands have high cool down seats, most spa have multiple seat heights to suit must soakers.
6) The spa will maintian the water level,, am i missing something here. I thought all spas maintain the water level while it is running, i didn't think the water level chages that much unless you add water to the spa from use and evaporation.
7)the spillover jets, it probably is a neat feeling with the water passing you..
8)problem with the forum...i can't see it!!!! People come on here all the time and tell how they have the best spas, what s wrong with that... ;D
This is the problem i see, some of us on here have been on here a long time, there are some of us here are regulars and i believe we all do a great job helping everyone out. Then you have people that are brand new show up on here make statements that they cannot back up, when they feel their brand is being slammed, they show up all of a sudden do a bunch of opinions.. then when they get called out they disappear. So i do not think many regulars slam but we do point out the b.s and the facts...
(9 Coolness factor.. sure it has that, But i will take the D1 Amore Bay over it for the WOW factor..
Again we all have different opinions, some of us love this industry if we did not we would not be on here or the other forums trying to help out anyone out there..... ;D ;D
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2) Unique characteristics, Your right the vanishing edge is unique, but remember all brands have soemthing unique to their lines that is part of what makes them different.
The Packard was unique; being unique doesn't necessarily mean people will care. Different for the sake of being different has little value to me; it’s all about what the spa shopper will like. Maybe this will be something that proves itself to be unique AND desired, time will tell.
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Ok Spa Guy, you want credentials. I can understand that. Our family business started 43 years ago with lawn and garden equipment and service. We added on hot tubs around 25 years ago and fireplaces 18 years ago. We are a A+ Better Business Bureau company. We have our own service center for all our products as well as sales. I have worked full time in the company for 31 years not counting the forced labor as a child. lol I have worked spa showrooms and shows for others as well as ours. I have represented the manufacturers at trade shows.
We have sold D1, Cal, Mr. Spa (have you been in the industry long enough to remember those?), Nordic, Viking, Leisure Bay, Dreammaker, Freeflow, Hydropool, Dynasty, Coast, Jacuzzi, and I might have missed one or two. We currently handle Coast (since 2000), Nordic (since 1998 or so), Leisure Bay/Dreammaker (since 2010), and Hydropool (since 2007). We offer service to all our customers who ever purchased from us whether we still sell the brand or not.
1) I am willing to concede your numbers on some of the different spa companies out there as I'd much rather sell than spend the time to check & see if your figures are off or not. However, for your information, Coast has 29 molds (by your count) but each mold is available in multiple series with distinctly different features. Those add up to over 103 models. Add in the choices in lighting, music, cabinets, insulation, color, and the possiblilities are staggering. Wink, Wink......just want you to have your facts straight.
2) As for uniqueness, it is rare to see something very different. Most is variations on what is already out there. New and different is always, at the very least, interesting. Which adds to excitement, which helps the entire industry. There will always be customers for the tried and true. But new inspires the industry to reach and improve instead of being old and stale.
3) No, all the pumps do not have to be on. Just one, on low, pulling 1 amp.
4) Really! Isn't it all mostly opinion? I love the way the waterfall flows over my neck and shoulders! Customers out there......PLEASE come in and try it! Make up your own mind!
5) Most spas have high cool down seats. Most don't have great lower back jets on them. And yes, most spas have various seat heights. Is this even in question?
6) What happens in a traditional spa when 6 people climb in? The water level goes up and sometimes even overflows. The water level can change dramatically. In the Cascade the water level does not change as the displaced water spills into the front area. Although it is possible to add enough people to overflow the front! Still, the water level is consistant!
7) Oh yeah.....
8) :D
9)D1 Amore Bay is cute but back to that opinion thing! I guess I just have a different WOW button. ::)
As far as being a newcomer on the forum, it's true. I am saving myself for retirement when I have the time to fill my many hours with this. Our store is busy and so I check in once in a while but I save myself for the brands and subjects I actually know something about! Don't really want to spend the time talking out my behind on stuff I don't. But to each their own :-*
Don't you just hate it when "people up on here make statements that they cannot back up, they show up all of a sudden do a bunch of opinions.. then when they get called out they disappear" Still here by the way!
One last thought, just because you have lots of time to play doesn't mean your opinions qualify higher on the fact meter HOWEVER sometimes you can hit the bell with greater frequency in the bs game. RING!
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You have been through a lot of brands in 25 years :o
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Well it is great to have two new first time posters come to the forum - especially good news for Coast since they seem to be fans/dealers.
SpaGoddess - why so many different brands? Who's on deck?
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All that said, welcome, I hope I didn't come across as Anti-Coast, I did say they make great looking tubs, probably as good as the tub I own. I just have always found that particular model ridiculous looking.
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Has anyone seen the Vanishing Edge Hot Tubs that Coast Spas are building ? Wow! I found them on facebook.....very cool.
I don't come here very often so sorry for being later to the party.
@concerned, I have one of the very spas you are so impressed with, mine is the Cascade II Niagara and I absolutely love it and would go as far as to say that all who have seen it and those who have had the pleasure to use it have also loved it. The greatest advantage for me and the reason I decided on this tub was the fact that the water level remained the same regardless of the number that occuppied the tub at any time as having a disabled son meant he couldn't easily raise himself as the water level increased as with normal tubs.
So far (touch wood) the tub has worked without a glitch and I am almost a year in. Things I have noticed in this year is that the filter stays very clean, possibly our own pre-wash routine before using the tub or the filtration system it employs, either way it's working.
I will say is that I don't think it's any better than some of the other great tub brands out that and by the same token I don't think it's any worse than those other great brands, it might have some unique features that will either appeal to you or not, this particular one of the negative edge did to me and was one of the reasons for the purchase, that and I really liked the dealer which is one thing you REALLY need to get right, the dealer (regardless of brand) needs to be good to have a wholly enjoyable ownership because without a good dealer to add their support when niggles do arise then this reflects on the brand as a whole. Thank goodness my dealer is first rate.
P.S.
Anything you would like to know about owning this tub and on it's feature please ask. I seldom have a full house in the tub but on the occasions I did it accommodated 6 people comfortably and 7 at a push which is still without using the cool off seat. As someone else said the negative edge seats aren't as good as the others but that still leaves 5 very good seats.
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One thing I forgot to mention in my last post. Because of the shape of these tubs the cover is more complicated than usual, my is in three sections instead of the usual two and though shaped to match the tubs leading edge it doesn't quite give as good a seal as a traditional tub would, that and it's sheer size which is not only it's length but the thickness that ranges from 3" up to 5" makes for heavy going when it comes to removing it.
Things that are great about the negative edge is sitting at night in darkness to only the sound of the water falling over the edge, very relaxing.
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Because of the shape of these tubs the cover is more complicated than usual, my is in three sections instead of the usual two and though shaped to match the tubs leading edge it doesn't quite give as good a seal as a traditional tub would,
That would be a red flag for me. The extra seam and a less than good seal at the bartop are not good foer energy efficiency.
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Because of the shape of these tubs the cover is more complicated than usual, my is in three sections instead of the usual two and though shaped to match the tubs leading edge it doesn't quite give as good a seal as a traditional tub would,
That would be a red flag for me. The extra seam and a less than good seal at the bartop are not good foer energy efficiency.
Your opinion is logical, extra seal and the shape of the tub should lead to greater running costs but as I haven't had another tub before to compare against I don't know whether this is causing any really noticeable affects on inefficiency but I do know what extra it has added to my electricity bill and it seems to work out at approximately £1 - £1.50 per day depending on which quaterly bill I look at, this figure is slightly above that of the brother-in-law's bill for his HS Envoy but I do run my tub a little hot to begin with.
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Footie, Glad you are enjoying the tub,, I would say the operation cost would be in par with the other top brands...It is a different look and i agree there are consumers that will like the look and some that do not... Like spatech said on the cover i would agree with , But also when it is time to replace will have a higher cost..for a 3 part cover. and also the dealer you buy from is also a big part of the enjoyment of the tub, for support down the road
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Footie, Glad you are enjoying the tub,, I would say the operation cost would be in par with the other top brands...It is a different look and i agree there are consumers that will like the look and some that do not... Like spatech said on the cover i would agree with , But also when it is time to replace will have a higher cost..for a 3 part cover. and also the dealer you buy from is also a big part of the enjoyment of the tub, for support down the road
No doubt the cover will cost more, possibly as much as twice the price because of it's a unique shape. I just don't know whether the cover/shape of the tub is costing me that much more than normal but it doesn't look to be dramatically more than the brother-in-law's HS Envoy and I feel this is outweighed by it's unique features.
A tub is a lifestyle thing, so what price does one put on happiness?
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footie,
well put.... :D :D :D
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No doubt the cover will cost more, possibly as much as twice the price because of it's a unique shape. I just don't know whether the cover/shape of the tub is costing me that much more than normal but it doesn't look to be dramatically more than the brother-in-law's HS Envoy and I feel this is outweighed by it's unique features.
A tub is a lifestyle thing, so what price does one put on happiness?
I'm not saying "don't buy a hot tub because it cost money to operate it".
Its just a red flag to me if the cover does not seal well to the bartop because I know you want it to seal well and normally they do.
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Maybe I chose the wrong words saying it doesn't seal well, I don't think for the majority of the cover it is any worse at sealing than on a normal tub, only that it the very front at the negative edge end of the tub I don't think it's a 100% seal as you would get with a traditional tub.
Maybe the reason my bills don't appear to be that much worse than his Envoy is that the rest of the tub is possibly a little bit more efficient. Either way my bills are par for the course for a hot tub.
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It doesn't really surprise me the issue with the cover sealing on a non-continuous surface has come up. I’m not a fan of the way they drop the front bartop (only relative to sealing the cover) anymore than Jacuzzi’s couple models where they have that humped back. Any time you go with a non-continuous non-flat surface you run the risk of not sealing the cover as well as you do on a conventional flat surface not to mention it becomes a special cover that costs extra when it comes time to purchase a replacement (every 4 to 5 years or so) because it’s a more intricate cover and you may only be able to get it from the OEM.
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It is a OEM cover I have and I must add that the quality of the tub is also reflected in the quality of the cover, as I said it's up to 5" thick in places. If I had one complaint to make regarding the cover it's the catches, piss poor but this is probably true on every other, why are they so cheap and brittle.
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It is a OEM cover I have and I must add that the quality of the tub is also reflected in the quality of the cover, as I said it's up to 5" thick in places. If I had one complaint to make regarding the cover it's the catches, piss poor but this is probably true on every other, why are they so cheap and brittle.
I think OEM is the only option right now for these special covers and I question whether the after-market cover guys are going to make them so they may be fairly expensive relative to standard covers when it comes time for replacement.
I just think bartops with bumps and dips rather than a flat surface are really just style over substance. Why not have the same spillover idea without the front dropping like that so you don't need a special cover and it seals better?
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Hello all,
Sorry it took so long to reply. You asked why we had so many brands in 25 years. Well, Mr. Spa went out of business.
D1 was a good brand but next to the Cal Spa we sold so many more Cal that it wasn't paying for it's space.
We dropped Cal after 11 years because we were offered Coast and we went to the factory and felt it was a home run. In the first year our sales were up 40% and our warranties down by half. We are now starting our second decade with Coast.
Dynasty we brought in 2 truckloads because at the time Coast was 8 to 12 weeks out on orders. Too bad for Dynasty that when customers were offered the Dynasty at a less expensive price and they could get it right away we sold 11 truckloads of Coast with them waiting 8 to 12 weeks before we could get rid of the 2 truckloads of Dynasty. In fact, the last 2 spas we put into an auction to move them. Maybe it's because Dynasty's "7 hp" is more like a 4hp and it's really obvious when next to Coast's 7 hp.
We can still get FreeFlow and do when we need to in order to fulfill a specific need. Nordic and Viking were so close to each other at the time that it was redundant to have both. We felt and still do that the Nordic was the superior brand.
LeisureBay fills the gap in price between Nordic and Coast.
Hydropool makes a terrific swim spa.
We service ALL the brands we have ever sold.
Now about the cover for the Niagra. Yes, it's a bit more expensive than some other covers but not too bad for a speciality. We charge $699 but we run sales a few times a year that will save about 10%.
Your idea about having a spill over without the drop would be great if someone could figure out a way to make it work. However it would not be visually as exciting nor would it spill over if it wasn't at least a bit lower on one side. Or should I say it would spill over on all four sides if one side wasn't lower! Once it's not the same height as the rest it would need a specialty cover in any case.
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Now about the cover for the Niagra. Yes, it's a bit more expensive than some other covers but not too bad for a speciality. We charge $699 but we run sales a few times a year that will save about 10%.
Your idea about having a spill over without the drop would be great if someone could figure out a way to make it work. However it would not be visually as exciting nor would it spill over if it wasn't at least a bit lower on one side. Or should I say it would spill over on all four sides if one side wasn't lower! Once it's not the same height as the rest it would need a specialty cover in any case.
They don't need the front end to drop to have a spillover trough. The front of the trough could be at the same height as the rest of the spa with the spillover wall lower like it is now. That would mean it would use a standard cover. They drop the front side merely for visual effect (style over substance) but it means you need a special expensive cover that I gotta believe it is more apt to have issues with sealing properly over time as Footie has noticed (even if its fine when new I gotta think over time it will have more sealing issues compared to flat surface bartop spas).
I figured the cover was OEM only and more expensive; $630 to $700 is really a very expensive cover that you need to replace every 4 to 5 years. You could argue its really just like budgeting and extra $40-50 per year vs a standard cover so in that way maybe not a major issue but I’d pass just out of fear that the cover wouldn’t seal well since energy efficiency is a major buying point for me.
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You are right that you could have a spillover with the front trough as high as the rest but what would be the point? I mean, sure it would help with keeping the water level consistant but I can't help but think that visually it would be a bust.
Since visual appeal is a very strong reason to be attracted to something, and since it's human nature to want to have items that attract attention (and a little envy), it's my opinion that it wouldn't sell as well without the visual aspects.
The cover seals as well as any other cover. The only difference is a second folding point. Spa covers larger than 8 foot (like the Coast Mirage for an example) already have that because of weight and ease. The downward slope actually helps water drainage directing the water down off the front. Kind of like the slope of a roof instead of a flat one.
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Spa Goddess,
nice to see what you have done with the brands, good move on getting away from the Cal we did them for 2 years then dropped the line( warranty),We have D1 and we could not be happier. But it is nice to see you having had Coast for that long... and represent them, Do not see many on here. ON the spillover you would think that Coast has played with the different ways to go with it, And i assume they found this to be the best way to run it...Who is building the covers for them ? Sunstar???
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The intent of the "catches" are simply to meet ASTM standards, and prevent a child under the age of five from gaining entry into the spa. It's what there is. If you wanted something more heavy duty, you'd be looking at adding at least $20 to the cost of the cover, and NO spa manufacturer would EVER pay that.
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ejf The Spa Guy, you are correct. Coast made the switch from Cal Cover to Sunstar in 2009.
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Many opinions on how to do the negative edge better than it already is but with each of those opinions here is a point being missed, it to give the impression that the water is falling off the edge of the world just as they do in swimming pools and the likes. You also gain a much better view than with a traditional tub, either to look at friends that aren't in the tub with you and hold a conversation or if you are lucky enough to have a position at your home where you can plant the tub and take in the countryside. In my case I positioned my tub so that it was looking out at my patio set, it's great for summer parties when some are in the tub and others just sitting around having a drink.
I think was are getting hung up on whether the seal is great or not, frankly I don't think it's that much worse than the rest but the bottomline is how much it costs per day to run compared to traditional tubs of similar quality and based on my experience against a HotSprings tub the cost difference is very small.
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Maybe it's because Dynasty's "7 hp" is more like a 4hp and it's really obvious when next to Coast's 7 hp.
:D
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You are right that you could have a spillover with the front trough as high as the rest but what would be the point? I mean, sure it would help with keeping the water level consistant but I can't help but think that visually it would be a bust.
Yes but that non-flat bartop will certainly lead to more sealing issues as one Coast owner had already noted versus going with a flat bartop. I'm not a fan of compromising energy effciency to get a better "look" of the spa. That may certainly help you on the sales floor and I understand that appeal to the dealer at point of sale but style over substance doesn't help the homeowner long term.
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I don't understand why you keep harping on the seal. There is no problem with the cover. In the winter you do not see steam rising out anywhere. It is treated exactly like a flat cover with pillows at the creases. The seal is no less or no more than any other premium cover in the market. The spa doesn't cost any more to own energy wise than any other spa of it's size in the same climate and I would say it is likely less costly because of the efficiency with the 5 or 7 hp pumps, insulation, etc.
You also like to repeat "style over substance". In this case it would be style ALONG with sustance. My preferences as a dealer mean very little in any case. The homeowner is the one who makes the decision. The same people who might choose stiletto heels over flats. Comfortable stiletto heels! Style matters thank God or we all would be wearing the same thing. For those that are concerned about the specialty cover there are plenty of other tubs in the Coast line up that can fulfill their needs.
This is a designer tub for the people that find design matters. It is not meant to fulfill everyone's tub desires.
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I don't understand why you keep harping on the seal. There is no problem with the cover. In the winter you do not see steam rising out anywhere. It is treated exactly like a flat cover with pillows at the creases. The seal is no less or no more than any other premium cover in the market. The spa doesn't cost any more to own energy wise than any other spa of it's size in the same climate and I would say it is likely less costly because of the efficiency with the 5 or 7 hp pumps, insulation, etc.
You also like to repeat "style over substance". In this case it would be style ALONG with sustance. My preferences as a dealer mean very little in any case. The homeowner is the one who makes the decision. The same people who might choose stiletto heels over flats. Comfortable stiletto heels! Style matters thank God or we all would be wearing the same thing. For those that are concerned about the specialty cover there are plenty of other tubs in the Coast line up that can fulfill their needs.
I only brought this up after an owner of this exact style tub reported it doesn't seal well and because I can see how this can be an issue with a non-flat bar top. I imagine they had concerns in development but Marketing usually wins out. As far as style over substance, I understand they did it for a look but deciding to drop the front edge is 100% for visual effect so its totally style over substance not to mention it limits you to an OEM cover than is about $200 more expensive due to the intricacy of it. It’s not like its the only example of style over substance in the industry but when it causes other issues such as sealing of the cover I’m not a fan. Heck, waterfalls are all about style but they don't cause any other undue issue really. I'm just saying if I were looking at Coast I'd skip these models and look at the traditional flat bartop spas. I’m not knocking Coast overall.
This is a designer tub for the people that find design matters. It is not meant to fulfill everyone's tub desires.
I totally agree, as I said I'm just saying if I were looking at Coast I'd skip these models and look at the traditional flat bartop spas. I’m not knocking Coast overall.
Others such as D1 also have a lot of "out of the box" designs also but they stick with flat bartops. I may be more of a purist overall but no matter the design I'd want a flat bartop whether its Coast, Jacuzzi or whomever, maybe its just me.
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Sweetie,
You get to keep your flat top! :D I'll be happy to sell you or anyone else one! In this market I'm grateful for every sale and so glad we have choices. There is nothing wrong with tradition! (or innovation)
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I only brought this up after an owner of this exact style tub reported it doesn't seal well and because I can see how this can be an issue with a non-flat bar top. I imagine they had concerns in development but Marketing usually wins out. As far as style over substance, I understand they did it for a look but deciding to drop the front edge is 100% for visual effect so its totally style over substance not to mention it limits you to an OEM cover than is about $200 more expensive due to the intricacy of it. It’s not like its the only example of style over substance in the industry but when it causes other issues such as sealing of the cover I’m not a fan. Heck, waterfalls are all about style but they don't cause any other undue issue really. I'm just saying if I were looking at Coast I'd skip these models and look at the traditional flat bartop spas. I’m not knocking Coast overall.
Your are exaggerating my words about the seal and doing so to suit your argument here. Yes I did say the seal wasn't perfect but it's definitely not near as bad as you are making out, after all I'm the one who should know. ;D The overall efficiency of the tub is on par with it's equivalents, surely you would agree that a HotSprings is of this caliber?
And another thing, the front edge isn't purely for visuals, I explained it's benefits from my own personal experience having this lowered lip, you can speak to guests that are outside of the tub without them having to stand up, plus if you have a great view you would love to look over (like the countryside) then this tub lends itself perfectly to it. As for waterfalls, may I suggest trying that center seat with the wide waterfall, it's seat sits higher than the others yet the waterfall flows over your shoulders keeping you as warm as any other person in the tub, it's my wife's personal favourite.
I totally agree, as I said I'm just saying if I were looking at Coast I'd skip these models and look at the traditional flat bartop spas. I’m not knocking Coast overall.
It's not the dealer's opinion/personal preference that's important here but the desires of the customer. Clearly this design feature is proving popular here at least because my dealer says it's his top selling model, that statement on a tub that is up near the top of Coast's range.
Others such as D1 also have a lot of "out of the box" designs also but they stick with flat bartops. I may be more of a purist overall but no matter the design I'd want a flat bartop whether its Coast, Jacuzzi or whomever, maybe its just me.
If that is your own personal perference when picking one for yourself then I can't argue with that, I said each to their own but personally I love my tub for all those unique features that in my mind enhance the whole experience.
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I agree Footie. When I speak of visual I am referring to the view both inside and outside of the tub. I'm so glad you are enjoying your spa and I'm sure you will have many happy memories with it over the years. :)
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Because of the shape of these tubs the cover is more complicated than usual, my is in three sections instead of the usual two and though shaped to match the tubs leading edge it doesn't quite give as good a seal as a traditional tub would,
Your are exaggerating my words about the seal and doing so to suit your argument here.
1) ???, I didn't exaggerate anyone's words, I did quote you but I did not exaggerate anything. I realize you love your tub and maybe you regret making an honest statement that did not reflect well on it but please don't try to put it on me as if I put words in your mouth or misquoted you.
2) Even if you hadn't made the statement above I had already had this opinion of designing tubs with non-flat surfaces and then trying to shape a cover that would not only fit it well when new but would hold its shape over time.
3) Relax, I’m not demonizing Coast, I'm just saying I don't like ANY brand/model spa that designs a non-flat surface to their bartop due to energy use concerns. Even then, I doubt my questioning of this will cause a major sales decline. Coast doesn't come up too often on this site and when they do I doubt you'll see evidence of me making any comment about them. I’m not a Coast basher, I'm just not a fan of their model(s) with an uneven bartop or anyone else's that may be like this. Just my opinion of course.
I'm sorry if you're unhappy that you slipped when you made that statement and I do not doubt how much enjoyment you’ve gotten out of yours so don’t take it personally.
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Footie, Spa Goddess,
I am curious is there lighting on the vanishing edge to see the water flow over the edge in the dark? just did not know if you can or cannot tell?
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Footie, Spa Goddess,
I am curious is there lighting on the vanishing edge to see the water flow over the edge in the dark? just did not know if you can or cannot tell?
Yes there is LEDs which do add to the effect when dark.
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1) ???, I didn't exaggerate anyone's words, I did quote you but I did not exaggerate anything. I realize you love your tub and maybe you regret making an honest statement that did not reflect well on it but please don't try to put it on me as if I put words in your mouth or misquoted you.
Yes I may have originally stated that I felt it didn't seal perfectly but I very quickly realised those words were not explaining what I meant by that which was why I followed up shortly afterwards with this comment
Maybe I chose the wrong words saying it didn't seal well
and keep repeating that my tub's daily running costs is compatible with an equivalent HotSprings model.
You are correct in thinking I am very happy with my purchase, who wouldn't be, it's a fantastic tub with some brilliant jet combinations and a set of unique features that enhance the pleasure of taking a dip.
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Spa goddess - thank you for your answer about why you have sold so many brands over the years.
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Response to if you can see the vanishing edge in the dark....
There are 4 possible lighting packages plus exterior lighting available on Coast spas. I have never ordered in a negitive edge spa without at least the standard led package which does illuminate the spillover on both sides. With the deluxe package it's even more lit up.
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1) ???, I didn't exaggerate anyone's words, I did quote you but I did not exaggerate anything. I realize you love your tub and maybe you regret making an honest statement that did not reflect well on it but please don't try to put it on me as if I put words in your mouth or misquoted you.
Yes I may have originally stated that I felt it didn't seal perfectly but I very quickly realised those words were not explaining what I meant by that which was why I followed up shortly afterwards with this comment
You're saying you misquoted yourself?? Really? I'm not sure how someone says their cover doesn't seal well only to recant and say they didn't mean it. Thats like sayiny my car has a broken window and then saying I was mistaken, its not broken. Kind of tough to mistake it. I'm imagining you felt like you betryaed your spa somehow and felt bad. I'm not sure why, owners of many brands will say they love their spa but they had "X" go wrong or if they could they'd change "Y" about it.
I'll leave it alone from here. I'm not trying to be like David who you have sparred with about your spa in the past. I have nothing to say about Coast really, my comments were more about a certain design idea that I think is shortsighted no matter who may use it and spoke my mind. I hope you continue to enjoy your spa.
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OK, let me explain so everyone including yourself and hopefully you'll understand what I meant, the very leading edge at the front of the tub where it dips down has a slight gap at times and this is down to having 3 sections spread over a very big tub. When I close it over I need to check and sometimes reposition it so this front edge is sealing properly. Now this is obviously not going to be a problem with a flat lipped tub which is why I said it didn't seal properly in my original post, along with the fact that it weighs a ton due to it's thickness.
All things considered I think it's extremely efficient, it's got a front trough with it's waterfall which be all account should cool the water quicker than normal and yet it's as economical as any other tub which speaks volumes for it's insulation and everything else designed to save us money.
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So you have metered this tub?
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So you have metered this tub?
No I haven't, but I have compared my bill with my brother-in-law's bill who lives in the same town, uses his tub as often as I do mine but at a slightly lower temperature ( 38.5o vs 38.0o).
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So you have metered this tub?
No I haven't, but I have compared my bill with my brother-in-law's bill who lives in the same town, uses his tub as often as I do mine but at a slightly lower temperature ( 38.5o vs 38.0o).
So you both have the same amount of electrical appliances running that are the same brand and size. You both have the same lights on all the time and everything? I'm sorry but until you meter a tub there is no way to do anything but speculate on what operating costs are.
So your assumption that your tub is just as energy effecient as some other tub is false. I'm just sayin.....
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So you both have the same amount of electrical appliances running that are the same brand and size. You both have the same lights on all the time and everything? I'm sorry but until you meter a tub there is no way to do anything but speculate on what operating costs are.
So your assumption that your tub is just as energy effecient as some other tub is false. I'm just sayin.....
We are both basing these figures on previous bills at the same time of year but without the tub in those figures compared to bills at the same time with the tub. Yes I know there may well be differences between these two bills but that said both our two bills year on year per quarter were pretty consistent.
But if you want to be totally anal and isolete only the usage of the tub, then no I am only making a guess. You could question the differences in hp output of each brand's pump, whether all jets were on at each occasion, the wind conditions, the air temperature, etc, etc. You could definitely pull holes in my opinion but as I said it's a non-scientific comparison based on our experience. He's happy with his tub and I'm happy with mine.
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Not to continue an argument which will put this thread in the beating a dead horse section, but like Tman122 stated, unless a tub is metered then there is no way of knowing the exact operating expenses. Even when an energy usage chart is provided by a manufacturer the criteria (outside air temperature and usage) will not be able to reflect a true operating cost because they are not realistic. All of the energy charts I have seen and none have been from Coast, have stated an ambient air temperature of either 60 degrees or 70 degrees, tub set at 102, and being used three times per week at 20 minutes per session. Common sense will tell someone that whatever those charts say are going to be lower than what actual operating costs will be.
Being a Coast dealer, I can say based on feedback from customers, and my boss who has a Coast Phantom (previously had a Cal Spa Atlantic and before that a Saratoga Victoria) that a Coast if insulated the same as a competing spa with similar specs is going to be about the same to operate.
Footie is happy with his Niagara and that is great. Maybe comparing usage with his brother-in-laws is not an exact science but it should give a relatively accurate indication because if the Coast was more efficient than the HotSprings or the other way, then there would probably be a noticeable discrepancy. And with regards to the cover, when looking at the Phantom I have on my floor, the cover fits just as good as it would if it were a flat top. Sunstar did a great job making the covers fit well.
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Love the look of the phantom, is it five proper full height seats with three lower level seats at the negative edge, also spec vs spec how does it's price compare with my niagara?
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The two side seats and the waterfall seat are the deeper seats in the spa with the remaining ones being shallower. I will note that I don't personally consider any seat in the Phantom to be a real deep seat though. Being that I don't have the Niagara on my floor, instead I have the Journey which is the same except without the vanishing edge, I am not sure of the price difference off hand.
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The two side seats and the waterfall seat are the deeper seats in the spa with the remaining ones being shallower. I will note that I don't personally consider any seat in the Phantom to be a real deep seat though. Being that I don't have the Niagara on my floor, instead I have the Journey which is the same except without the vanishing edge, I am not sure of the price difference off hand.
I must admit that if you were a tall guy then chances are none of these negative edge spas would appeal to you, but that's the beauty of it, there always a spa out there to suit everyone. For me and my situation the Niagara is the ideal tub.
P.S.
On a different point, why are Coast the only ones adopting the commerical pressurized filtration system and what's it's real benefit over the rest?