Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: bradleyabell on November 13, 2017, 05:49:24 pm

Title: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 13, 2017, 05:49:24 pm
Hi everyone. I finally had my tub working great with no chemical or
Foam issues. I added 2oz of natural enzyme tonight as per the directions and it instantly caused
My tub to become Cloudy and to foam up.  I thought the natural enzyme was the way to go since it’s “natural” but something in it is causing a reaction in my tub. I am using a bromine floater plus mineral floaters.

Anyone have any idea what the heck is going on ??
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Cora5 on November 13, 2017, 05:59:57 pm
What is the name of the enzyme?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 14, 2017, 07:13:20 am
The brand is Swimway...It came with my Bullfrog tub from Watson's.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 15, 2017, 08:40:40 am
Anyone have any idea what’s going on??
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on November 15, 2017, 09:00:33 am
 Have you tried calling your dealer?  Sounds like a sanitation problem, which enzyme products are not.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 15, 2017, 02:49:06 pm
Have you tried calling your dealer?  Sounds like a sanitation problem, which enzyme products are not.

No, but my bromine levels are fine...No issues there.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 15, 2017, 06:22:08 pm
Enzymes won’t cause that. Has to be something else going on. Have you called your dealer or better yet brought a water sample there?  High PH?  Not enough filtration?  Mis marked bottle?  Has to be something but I would start with the dealer you bought it from
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on November 15, 2017, 07:25:15 pm
Have you tried calling your dealer?  Sounds like a sanitation problem, which enzyme products are not.

No, but my bromine levels are fine...No issues there.

  So your using bromine and a natural enzyme product, why?  Makes no sense.. 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 16, 2017, 07:15:26 am
Have you tried calling your dealer?  Sounds like a sanitation problem, which enzyme products are not.

No, but my bromine levels are fine...No issues there.

  So your using bromine and a natural enzyme product, why?  Makes no sense..

It came with my tub and was told to use weekly...Should I not be using it?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on November 16, 2017, 09:13:23 am
 Keep bromine level where it needs to be, shock with MPS once a week and watch your PH/Alk levels. Skip the enzyme crap. I would get a bottle of Leisure time Defender good stuff. 

 End of story. 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bud16415 on November 16, 2017, 09:46:59 am
I was also given a bottle of some kind of enzyme stuff when I bought my bromine feeder tub. They gave me a box of stuff and it was in it. I think that’s how they get rid of stuff they cant sell. I read the directions a few times I tried it and didn’t see where it did anything. But if you put it in a clear tub and instantly got cloudy and stayed that way, I would think that could be the cause, and I would call the dealer or take a sample in. If they give you some mumbo jumbo story and from some of your other threads they don’t seem as up on things as they should be. Take matters into your own hands and figure out a method that works for you. Sounds like your method wont require enzymes.


Keep in mind all water doesn’t start out the same when we fill a tub. What works for one person might have to be tweaked for another. 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 16, 2017, 12:35:31 pm
Keep bromine level where it needs to be, shock with MPS once a week and watch your PH/Alk levels. Skip the enzyme crap. I would get a bottle of Leisure time Defender good stuff. 

 End of story.

When would you recommend to add the defender?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on November 16, 2017, 02:02:15 pm
 I add some once a week.  Like a shot glass, probably less sometimes.  If you miss a week or 2 no worries. 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 16, 2017, 10:44:57 pm
Enzymes serve a purpose. They are good for reducing scum lines and helping make your sanitizer more effective.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 20, 2017, 07:21:41 am
Still having foam issues ever since adding the enzyme.  Foam Down temporarily gets rid of it, but it not a "solve it" solution.  Does anyone have any good ways of actually eliminating the foam I'm getting?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: castletonia on November 20, 2017, 07:52:41 am
I wonder if your enzyme product was mispackaged and is something else.  I have never seen any enzyme product cause foam.  I suppose that its possible that combined with something else, maybe.  Years ago I accidentally added Natural Chemistry Spa Purge instead of Spa Perfect to a hot tub on my showroom floor.  Lots of foam.  I called Natural Chemistry and their only solution was drain and refill, which is what I did.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 20, 2017, 09:04:12 am
I wonder if your enzyme product was mispackaged and is something else.  I have never seen any enzyme product cause foam.  I suppose that its possible that combined with something else, maybe.  Years ago I accidentally added Natural Chemistry Spa Purge instead of Spa Perfect to a hot tub on my showroom floor.  Lots of foam.  I called Natural Chemistry and their only solution was drain and refill, which is what I did.

I would like to avoid this at all cost (if possible).  I've only had the tub for around 2 months now and just drained it once already 3 weeks ago due to biofilm.  Would love to get on this "change your water every 4 month" routine, but so far that doesn't seem real for me.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 20, 2017, 11:12:26 am
I wonder if your enzyme product was mispackaged and is something else.  I have never seen any enzyme product cause foam.  I suppose that its possible that combined with something else, maybe.  Years ago I accidentally added Natural Chemistry Spa Purge instead of Spa Perfect to a hot tub on my showroom floor.  Lots of foam.  I called Natural Chemistry and their only solution was drain and refill, which is what I did.

I would like to avoid this at all cost (if possible).  I've only had the tub for around 2 months now and just drained it once already 3 weeks ago due to biofilm.  Would love to get on this "change your water every 4 month" routine, but so far that doesn't seem real for me.

Do you have anymore of that enzyme stuff you can bring back to the dealer to see if it was mis-labeled?  Are you able to maintain a bromine/chlorine level in the tub?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 20, 2017, 01:00:56 pm
I wonder if your enzyme product was mispackaged and is something else.  I have never seen any enzyme product cause foam.  I suppose that its possible that combined with something else, maybe.  Years ago I accidentally added Natural Chemistry Spa Purge instead of Spa Perfect to a hot tub on my showroom floor.  Lots of foam.  I called Natural Chemistry and their only solution was drain and refill, which is what I did.
I would like to avoid this at all cost (if possible).  I've only had the tub for around 2 months now and just drained it once already 3 weeks ago due to biofilm.  Would love to get on this "change your water every 4 month" routine, but so far that doesn't seem real for me.

Do you have anymore of that enzyme stuff you can bring back to the dealer to see if it was mis-labeled?  Are you able to maintain a bromine/chlorine level in the tub?

Yes to both questions.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on November 20, 2017, 01:21:51 pm

  How is your calcium level, and curious how you got biofilm after only 2 months?   Which brings us back to a sanitation issue.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 20, 2017, 02:12:04 pm

  How is your calcium level, and curious how you got biofilm after only 2 months?   Which brings us back to a sanitation issue.

Calcium level is right where it should be.  I only say I had biofilm because that is what I was told on this board.  People thought that was my issue and that I could have possibly gotten it from the factory.  I had constant foam issues, but a lot worse than what I am experiencing now.  The only foam I'm getting now happened right after using enzyme.  I set my filter to cycle 24 hours a day and I'm still having some foam buildup.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on November 20, 2017, 04:33:40 pm
Still having foam issues ever since adding the enzyme.  Foam Down temporarily gets rid of it, but it not a "solve it" solution.  Does anyone have any good ways of actually eliminating the foam I'm getting?

Eliminate foam.......drain and refill.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 20, 2017, 09:57:35 pm
Still having foam issues ever since adding the enzyme.  Foam Down temporarily gets rid of it, but it not a "solve it" solution.  Does anyone have any good ways of actually eliminating the foam I'm getting?

Eliminate foam.......drain and refill.

Was hoping to avoid that considering I just did that less than a month ago.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 20, 2017, 11:42:04 pm
Is the foam white or colored like brown\black\yellow in color?  What type of sanitizer and what is the level at?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 21, 2017, 07:19:17 am
Is the foam white or colored like brown\black\yellow in color?  What type of sanitizer and what is the level at?

Foam is white...I have no issues with scum or any sort of scum line currently.  Water is also crystal clear.
I am using bromine+mineral floaters and the bromine reads out around 3-5PPM
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 21, 2017, 11:15:42 pm
Is the foam white or colored like brown\black\yellow in color?  What type of sanitizer and what is the level at?

Foam is white...I have no issues with scum or any sort of scum line currently.  Water is also crystal clear.
I am using bromine+mineral floaters and the bromine reads out around 3-5PPM

So is it getting better because before it was cloudy correct?  I would attack it with some liquid chlorine. Get the level up to 15-20 ppm for a day or two and kill off whatever is causing it. Unfortunately it sounds like whatever you got in that package was probably something else
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Professor Spa on November 22, 2017, 09:17:52 am
Enzyme systems always fgo cloudy for 12-36 hrs.

for foam keep alkalinity high end of ok then adjust ph to low end of ok
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 22, 2017, 12:50:58 pm
Is the foam white or colored like brown\black\yellow in color?  What type of sanitizer and what is the level at?

Foam is white...I have no issues with scum or any sort of scum line currently.  Water is also crystal clear.
I am using bromine+mineral floaters and the bromine reads out around 3-5PPM

So is it getting better because before it was cloudy correct?  I would attack it with some liquid chlorine. Get the level up to 15-20 ppm for a day or two and kill off whatever is causing it. Unfortunately it sounds like whatever you got in that package was probably something else

What is liquid chlorine?  I have some dichlor I could use.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on November 22, 2017, 04:24:16 pm
Is the foam white or colored like brown\black\yellow in color?  What type of sanitizer and what is the level at?

Foam is white...I have no issues with scum or any sort of scum line currently.  Water is also crystal clear.
I am using bromine+mineral floaters and the bromine reads out around 3-5PPM

So is it getting better because before it was cloudy correct?  I would attack it with some liquid chlorine. Get the level up to 15-20 ppm for a day or two and kill off whatever is causing it. Unfortunately it sounds like whatever you got in that package was probably something else

What is liquid chlorine?  I have some dichlor I could use.

Liquid chlorine is bleach. Like the stuff you use in your laundry. Make sure it's unscented.

Lets talk about lotions, cream rinse, shampoos, deodorant, after shave, perfume. Stuff you, your wife/girlfriend, kids, friends may bring in to your tub.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 22, 2017, 06:35:05 pm
Is the foam white or colored like brown\black\yellow in color?  What type of sanitizer and what is the level at?

Foam is white...I have no issues with scum or any sort of scum line currently.  Water is also crystal clear.
I am using bromine+mineral floaters and the bromine reads out around 3-5PPM

So is it getting better because before it was cloudy correct?  I would attack it with some liquid chlorine. Get the level up to 15-20 ppm for a day or two and kill off whatever is causing it. Unfortunately it sounds like whatever you got in that package was probably something else

What is liquid chlorine?  I have some dichlor I could use.

Liquid chlorine is bleach. Like the stuff you use in your laundry. Make sure it's unscented.

Lets talk about lotions, cream rinse, shampoos, deodorant, after shave, perfume. Stuff you, your wife/girlfriend, kids, friends may bring in to your tub.

Gotcha. Thank you for clarifying.

Shouldn’t shocking eliminate any of the above oils/lotions?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on November 23, 2017, 06:45:54 am
Shouldn’t shocking eliminate any of the above oils/lotions?

It depends on how much stuff your bringing in.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 24, 2017, 06:58:48 am
Shouldn’t shocking eliminate any of the above oils/lotions?

It depends on how much stuff your bringing in.

Just shocked with MPS last night to reactivate the bromine, which it did and it caused another large amount of foam to form. Am really trying to avoid draining as I live in Michigan where it is barely above freezing temperatures.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on November 24, 2017, 11:57:58 am
Shouldn’t shocking eliminate any of the above oils/lotions?

It depends on how much stuff your bringing in.

Just shocked with MPS last night to reactivate the bromine, which it did and it caused another large amount of foam to form. Am really trying to avoid draining as I live in Michigan where it is barely above freezing temperatures.


You could always just drain it a third and top with fresh.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: meriflower on November 24, 2017, 12:34:31 pm
They do make anti-foam chemicals that you can use.  I use Leisure Time and they have one called Leisure Time Foam Down.  All spa chemical companies usually have their own version if you prefer a particular brand that is not Leisure Time.  Keep in mind, this is a quick fix but is not a long term solution on why this keeps happening.  As already noted foam happens due to beauty products (shampoo, deodorant, lotions, soap, etc) or imbalanced water (low calcium hardness, high or low PH).   Have you had your water tested at a spa dealer?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 24, 2017, 07:42:40 pm
They do make anti-foam chemicals that you can use.  I use Leisure Time and they have one called Leisure Time Foam Down.  All spa chemical companies usually have their own version if you prefer a particular brand that is not Leisure Time.  Keep in mind, this is a quick fix but is not a long term solution on why this keeps happening.  As already noted foam happens due to beauty products (shampoo, deodorant, lotions, soap, etc) or imbalanced water (low calcium hardness, high or low PH).   Have you had your water tested at a spa dealer?

Yes I’ve been using the Leasure Time Foam Down and that does fix it for 15-20 minutes but like you said, it’s only a temporary fix. The foam only occurs when the jets are turned on.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 24, 2017, 10:39:20 pm
They do make anti-foam chemicals that you can use.  I use Leisure Time and they have one called Leisure Time Foam Down.  All spa chemical companies usually have their own version if you prefer a particular brand that is not Leisure Time.  Keep in mind, this is a quick fix but is not a long term solution on why this keeps happening.  As already noted foam happens due to beauty products (shampoo, deodorant, lotions, soap, etc) or imbalanced water (low calcium hardness, high or low PH).   Have you had your water tested at a spa dealer?

Yes I’ve been using the Leasure Time Foam Down and that does fix it for 15-20 minutes but like you said, it’s only a temporary fix. The foam only occurs when the jets are turned on.

Did you bring that enzyme stuff back to where you bought it from to see if it was really enzymes or something else?  Why did you use MPS instead of liquid chlorine?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 24, 2017, 11:02:24 pm
They do make anti-foam chemicals that you can use.  I use Leisure Time and they have one called Leisure Time Foam Down.  All spa chemical companies usually have their own version if you prefer a particular brand that is not Leisure Time.  Keep in mind, this is a quick fix but is not a long term solution on why this keeps happening.  As already noted foam happens due to beauty products (shampoo, deodorant, lotions, soap, etc) or imbalanced water (low calcium hardness, high or low PH).   Have you had your water tested at a spa dealer?

Yes I’ve been using the Leasure Time Foam Down and that does fix it for 15-20 minutes but like you said, it’s only a temporary fix. The foam only occurs when the jets are turned on.

Did you bring that enzyme stuff back to where you bought it from to see if it was really enzymes or something else?  Why did you use MPS instead of liquid chlorine?

That’s what I had in the house. What would bleach do that mps doesn’t with
Bromine?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 24, 2017, 11:05:30 pm
Shouldn’t shocking eliminate any of the above oils/lotions?

It depends on how much stuff your bringing in.

Just shocked with MPS last night to reactivate the bromine, which it did and it caused another large amount of foam to form. Am really trying to avoid draining as I live in Michigan where it is barely above freezing temperatures.


You could always just drain it a third and top with fresh.

Would that solve the issue?  2/3 of the “bad water” would still be in the tub.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 24, 2017, 11:31:16 pm
They do make anti-foam chemicals that you can use.  I use Leisure Time and they have one called Leisure Time Foam Down.  All spa chemical companies usually have their own version if you prefer a particular brand that is not Leisure Time.  Keep in mind, this is a quick fix but is not a long term solution on why this keeps happening.  As already noted foam happens due to beauty products (shampoo, deodorant, lotions, soap, etc) or imbalanced water (low calcium hardness, high or low PH).   Have you had your water tested at a spa dealer?

Yes I’ve been using the Leasure Time Foam Down and that does fix it for 15-20 minutes but like you said, it’s only a temporary fix. The foam only occurs when the jets are turned on.

Did you bring that enzyme stuff back to where you bought it from to see if it was really enzymes or something else?  Why did you use MPS instead of liquid chlorine?

That’s what I had in the house. What would bleach do that mps doesn’t with
Bromine?

I'm not sure but that's what I have done in the past with good results. Without knowing exactly what you put in the tub it's goin to be tough to tell you exactly what to do. Did you have a chance to br By that stuff back and see what it is?  If it was a purge product draining 2/3 won't do a thing. With the MPS how high did your bromine get?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 24, 2017, 11:34:10 pm
Bromine/ mineral combo are you using the spa frog system?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 25, 2017, 09:31:48 am
Bromine/ mineral combo are you using the spa frog system?

I’m using the spa frog mineral floater with a separate bromine floater with 1” bromine tablets. I have not had a chance to bring the enzyme product in yet. With the MPS Amy bromine was over 5 PPM
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on November 25, 2017, 06:45:27 pm
Would that solve the issue?  2/3 of the “bad water” would still be in the tub.

You will be surprised what 1/3 fresh water will do.

But it's only a temporary fix until we figure out whats causing the foam.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on November 25, 2017, 09:49:48 pm
Bromine/ mineral combo are you using the spa frog system?

I’m using the spa frog mineral floater with a separate bromine floater with 1” bromine tablets. I have not had a chance to bring the enzyme product in yet. With the MPS Amy bromine was over 5 PPM

Bromine level at 5 PPM is probably not going to be high enough. Want to aim for closer to 20 PPM. Super shocking this way. How long did the level stay at 5 for?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bud16415 on November 26, 2017, 09:55:26 am
Would that solve the issue?  2/3 of the “bad water” would still be in the tub.

You will be surprised what 1/3 fresh water will do.

But it's only a temporary fix until we figure out whats causing the foam.

The solution to pollution is delusion. Is what they say.

I have experimented with partial drains and refills as well and I am more and more convinced in my case it is a very viable method. I have hot water available to refill with and between my hot water temp and using it until I run out and going with cold I can drain about 100 gallons and refill and not have to wait for the water to reheat. So start to finish I can do a drain down refill in 30 minutes and be using the tub.

You are correct that ¼ replacment will do wonders.

I find it really nice during late winter when I want to freshen the water but trying to make it another 4 to 6 weeks for the weather to warm up to do a total.   
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on November 26, 2017, 10:06:49 am
Maybe your neighbor is coming over and messing with you?  ;)

  For the amount of days this has been discussed you could have just drained the spa and started over.   I know you don't want to, but at this point I would.     

  Dump a good dose of bleach in there, run it for 30 min on high.   Drain the spa, clean filters or get a new set and refill it.   Use just the bromine floater if that's what you like, and go from there. 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on November 30, 2017, 04:40:50 pm
How much bleach should I put in the tub to get  A PPM of 15–20?   Is it important to leave the cover off when the chemicals are that high? And how long if so should I leave the cover off? Lastly how long will it take for the chemicals to get down into a safe to enter the top level?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on November 30, 2017, 05:10:07 pm
How much bleach should I put in the tub to get  A PPM of 15–20?   Is it important to leave the cover off when the chemicals are that high? And how long if so should I leave the cover off? Lastly how long will it take for the chemicals to get down into a safe to enter the top level?

Commercial pools and spas are required to maintain a level of 10 PPM at all times. So when do you think it's safe?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 05, 2017, 03:07:00 pm
How much bleach should I put in the tub to get  A PPM of 15–20?   Is it important to leave the cover off when the chemicals are that high? And how long if so should I leave the cover off? Lastly how long will it take for the chemicals to get down into a safe to enter the top level?

Commercial pools and spas are required to maintain a level of 10 PPM at all times. So when do you think it's safe?

That makes sense, but I still don't know how much bleach to put in the tub.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on December 05, 2017, 03:21:59 pm
How many gallons is your hot tub?  At this point you could've drained and refilled and been done with it....
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on December 05, 2017, 04:49:59 pm
How much bleach should I put in the tub to get  A PPM of 15–20?   Is it important to leave the cover off when the chemicals are that high? And how long if so should I leave the cover off? Lastly how long will it take for the chemicals to get down into a safe to enter the top level?

Experiment, try a cup first and see how high it goes

Yes leave the cover off for 10-15-20 minutes

The next day it will be low enough. Add after you are done soaking.

Regularly you will only need 5 PPM but to shock you should go to 15-20 PPM
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 06, 2017, 01:25:17 pm
How many gallons is your hot tub?  At this point you could've drained and refilled and been done with it....

450gal.  And that's very difficult for me to drain as I live in Michigan. (winter)
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 06, 2017, 01:26:00 pm
How much bleach should I put in the tub to get  A PPM of 15–20?   Is it important to leave the cover off when the chemicals are that high? And how long if so should I leave the cover off? Lastly how long will it take for the chemicals to get down into a safe to enter the top level?

Experiment, try a cup first and see how high it goes

Yes leave the cover off for 10-15-20 minutes

The next day it will be low enough. Add after you are done soaking.

Regularly you will only need 5 PPM but to shock you should go to 15-20 PPM

Can I do this even if my tub is a "bromine" tub?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on December 06, 2017, 03:46:30 pm
How much bleach should I put in the tub to get  A PPM of 15–20?   Is it important to leave the cover off when the chemicals are that high? And how long if so should I leave the cover off? Lastly how long will it take for the chemicals to get down into a safe to enter the top level?

Experiment, try a cup first and see how high it goes

Yes leave the cover off for 10-15-20 minutes

The next day it will be low enough. Add after you are done soaking.

Regularly you will only need 5 PPM but to shock you should go to 15-20 PPM

Can I do this even if my tub is a "bromine" tub?

Oh yikes no. Sorry I wasn't paying attention. Don't mix chlorine and bromine. Choose one or the other.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Livefast on December 10, 2017, 12:27:25 am
So you are saying this write up I just found is wrong?


How do I use Bromine in my spa
There is a lot of misinformation on the proper way to use Bromine so I hope this primer is helpful.

First, you need to establish a bromide reserve in the water. Bromine tablets can do it by themselves but it can take literally weeks until enough dissolves. Some people crush about 6 of them up and put them in the water on each water change to achieve this but it really is easier and cheaper to add a packet or two of sodium bromide! It is available from such companies as HTH, Leisure Time, Robarb (Rendezvous) and others. Bromine tablets contain both bromine and chlorine to oxidize the bromine into active sanitizer. (There is one that I know of on the market that contains MPS instead of chlorine but it works exactly the same way.) If you do not add the sodium bromide and just put in bromine tabs then you will be starting with a chlorine system until enough bromide dissolves in the water.

There are basically two ways to do a bromine system--2-step and 3-step. In the 2-step system you add the sodium bromide to the water to the proper concentration, then add oxidizer on a regular basis (usually chlorine, MPS or ozone or a combination of them) to oxidize the bromide ions into hypobromous acid, your active sanitizer. It's pretty easy but does require a bit of attention daily to maintain the bromine levels in the water.

A 3-step system is identical with the addition of bromine tabs in a floater. This will help maintain a more constant bromine level in the water with less maintenance but otherwise there is no difference. The 3-step system costs more since the bromine tablets are the most expensive part of this equation. The dimethylhydantoin in the tablets seems to have a similar (but not identical) function in a bromine system as CYA does in a chlorine system. It tends to stablilize it but, like CYA, too much is not good. Not that much info is readily available on the effects of dimethylhydantion other than that it makes the bromine more difficult to destroy, a consideration if you ever want to switch over to a chlorine system.

If you add sodium bromide to your water and have an ozonator you might be able to achieve the constant bromine level without the floater since the ozone is constantly oxidizing the bromide while it is on. However, you might deplete the bromide reserve quickly this way, leading to a shorter time between drain and refills. Also, ozone can cause bromates to form in your water. Bromates are a suspected carcinogen in drinking water.

You still need to superoxidize (shock), usually about once a week to destroy organics in the water whether you choose the 2-step or 3-step method.. I prefer plain, unscented laundry bleach (5.25%) for shocking a bromine spa. 1 cup per 250-300 gallons is about right. If you use Ultra bleach (6%) then you need about 3/4 cup. You can also use 12.5% pool chlorine at half the ultra bleach dose. They are all sodium hypochlorite, just in different strengths. If you do not want to use a liquid shock you can also use calcium hypochlorite granules (slow dissolving and will cause your calcium levels to rise), Lithium hypochlorite (very fast dissolving but very expensive, however my first choice for a granulated shock since it really has minimal impact on your water just like the liquid does), or MPS--potassium monopersulfate, also called non chlorine shock (will lower your pH and TA and add sulfates to your water). There is no advantage to using dichlor (stabilized chlorine) for shocking a bromine system but it probably wouldn't hurt. CYA (stabilizer) does not stabilize bromine.

Here is a step by step:
1) On each fill balance the water (adjust TA and pH. Add calcium if below 125 for acrylic spas or below 200 for plaster). More info here on balancing spa TA and PH, How do I use Chlorine in my Spa (or pool)?. If you have metals in your water add a metal sequesterant.
2) On each fill add sodium bromide to the water. (Follow manufacturer's directions on dosing. You will end up with about a 30 ppm concentration of sodium bromide.)
3) Shock with your preferred oxidizer (chlorine/bleach or MPS) and turn on the ozone if you are using it. Your bromine levels should now be above 10 ppm. Wait until they drop below 10 ppm before entering spa.



Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Livefast on December 10, 2017, 12:30:45 am


4) If using a 3-step system add your floater with bromine tabs and adjust it to maintain a 4-6 ppm bromine level. If using a 2-step system add your preferred oxidizer as needed (and adjust your ozone) to maintain a 4-6 ppm bromine level.

5) Shock weekly to burn off organics that collect in the water. (If you are using ozone and your bromine levels are staying at 4-6 ppm then you can shock less often.) Wait until the bromine level drops below 10 ppm before entering spa.

6) Test bromine and pH before entering spa each time. Test all water parameters (bromine, pH, TA, Calcium Hardness) weekly.

7) Drain and refill about every 3-4 months.

One final note. A good test kit is a must, just like with a chlorine system. IMHO, the BEST test kit for bromine is the Taylor K-2106 which has an FAS-DPD test for bromine and also tests for pH with acid and base demand, TA, and CH. If you already have a Trouble Free Testkit TF-100 (or are getting one for your chlorine pool) then use the OTO test (small comparator with yellow color blocks) for your bromine levels since you only want to know total bromine. The TF-100 has all the other tests you need also. Remember, you don't need to test CYA in a bromine system.

Happy bromine hot tubbing!

Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Sam on December 10, 2017, 05:41:36 pm
Yes you can add chlorine to a bromine spa or vice versa.  You just aren't supposed to mix concentrated bromine and chlorine together in the same container.  Diluted in the spa it's ok to do.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on December 10, 2017, 08:08:23 pm
 Somebody please move this thread to beat a dead horse section.   If your still trying to get your spa in check at this point?  Drain the spa and start over, like a month ago.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 11, 2017, 07:29:26 am
Somebody please move this thread to beat a dead horse section.   If your still trying to get your spa in check at this point?  Drain the spa and start over, like a month ago.

Don't have to be so angry about it lol...I would totally drain my tub and refill...IF I DIDN'T LIVE IN MICHIGAN.  The high temp is in the 20s so that would be smart.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on December 11, 2017, 03:17:13 pm
Somebody please move this thread to beat a dead horse section.   If your still trying to get your spa in check at this point?  Drain the spa and start over, like a month ago.

Don't have to be so angry about it lol...I would totally drain my tub and refill...IF I DIDN'T LIVE IN MICHIGAN.  The high temp is in the 20s so that would be smart.

  If I were "MAD" I would have typed it all in caps.    And this has been going on for over a month now. I know Michigan is cold, but it wasn't that cold last month, or early Dec.   
 
   So you still having issues? 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 12, 2017, 07:17:55 am
Somebody please move this thread to beat a dead horse section.   If your still trying to get your spa in check at this point?  Drain the spa and start over, like a month ago.

Don't have to be so angry about it lol...I would totally drain my tub and refill...IF I DIDN'T LIVE IN MICHIGAN.  The high temp is in the 20s so that would be smart.

  If I were "MAD" I would have typed it all in caps.    And this has been going on for over a month now. I know Michigan is cold, but it wasn't that cold last month, or early Dec.   
 
   So you still having issues?

It's been in freezing temperatures almost every day for the past month lol...And yes I'm having foaming issues still.  Water is crystal clear and it only foams once jets are on and then the foam builds and builds.  Once I add foam down it stops all foam and removes existing foam for about 15-20 minutes.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bud16415 on December 12, 2017, 01:57:50 pm
Still sounds to me like skin products (oils) or laundry products (soap). 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on December 12, 2017, 04:57:48 pm
Still sounds to me like skin products (oils) or laundry products (soap).

I agree and said that 50 posts back....LOL
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on December 12, 2017, 05:58:48 pm
 I am not sure even drain & refill would change anything, short term maybe.    Something else is going on.

  So call me crazy, but if it's that cold how do service techs do their jobs?   Like changing a bad pump or a heater with no slice valves where they have to drain the water, then I assume hang around and refill or the homeowner does it?     We get down in the teens here in the PNW, but I can change the water in my spa with a pump and have it back up and running in just over an hour.    I am assuming you keep a hose inside or blown out water so you can top off every once in awhile?    Even in the 20s it's not like it's going to flash freeze your plumbing.  It's just not going to be fun doing it..

 
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Livefast on December 12, 2017, 08:22:41 pm
Still sounds to me like skin products (oils) or laundry products (soap).

I agree and said that 50 posts back....LOL


   That being said.... you also said one can't use chlorine in a bromine tub.

 We are all here to learn are we not?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Hottubguy on December 12, 2017, 08:51:39 pm
I am not sure even drain & refill would change anything, short term maybe.    Something else is going on.

  So call me crazy, but if it's that cold how do service techs do their jobs?   Like changing a bad pump or a heater with no slice valves where they have to drain the water, then I assume hang around and refill or the homeowner does it?     We get down in the teens here in the PNW, but I can change the water in my spa with a pump and have it back up and running in just over an hour.    I am assuming you keep a hose inside or blown out water so you can top off every once in awhile?    Even in the 20s it's not like it's going to flash freeze your plumbing.  It's just not going to be fun doing it..

Lol. I was able to drain, swap a pump out and refill a tub today. High of 27 degrees. Might not be fun but absolutely doable.

To the OP did you ever bring that chemical back to where you bought it from to see what it was?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: Tman122 on December 13, 2017, 06:34:08 am
Still sounds to me like skin products (oils) or laundry products (soap).

I agree and said that 50 posts back....LOL


   That being said.... you also said one can't use chlorine in a bromine tub.

 We are all here to learn are we not?

I was taught not to mix chlorine and bromine. Stick to one or the other.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 13, 2017, 07:33:00 am
I am not sure even drain & refill would change anything, short term maybe.    Something else is going on.

  So call me crazy, but if it's that cold how do service techs do their jobs?   Like changing a bad pump or a heater with no slice valves where they have to drain the water, then I assume hang around and refill or the homeowner does it?     We get down in the teens here in the PNW, but I can change the water in my spa with a pump and have it back up and running in just over an hour.    I am assuming you keep a hose inside or blown out water so you can top off every once in awhile?    Even in the 20s it's not like it's going to flash freeze your plumbing.  It's just not going to be fun doing it..

I have to shut the water off to my hose spigots...The only way I can top the water off in winter is I have a 10 gallon bucket I fill up in the sink.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 13, 2017, 07:34:20 am
Still sounds to me like skin products (oils) or laundry products (soap).

I agree and said that 50 posts back....LOL


   That being said.... you also said one can't use chlorine in a bromine tub.

 We are all here to learn are we not?

I was taught not to mix chlorine and bromine. Stick to one or the other.

See...I've read on here 100 times that you can add dichlor to a bromine tub with no problems, and I have done this multiple times to get my bromine levels up quickly.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bud16415 on December 13, 2017, 10:26:41 am
Living in as cold of a place and also the snowiest of places any one would conceder living and dealing with a hot tub. My suggestion is plan ahead.

For example today the wind chill is well below zero and we got a foot of snow over night. I would not want to drain, clean and fill the tub today, but if I had to I could and would. Timing your last water change for the year to happen late fall is a key strategy even if it is a month early. I planned ahead and have two methods of getting the water out of the tub and away from the house. My normal method is the drain fitting built into the tub and a garden hose I have set up just for that one task. It drains into my wastewater vent line. The hose holds no water so it wont freeze. The second method is a 25’ 2” pool hose I use as a siphon. I can drain the tub in 15 minutes with that and it is long enough I can have it away from the house and drain into the yard. Next you need a water connection outside near the tub and one that is freeze proof. All new homes should have these now they are long and extend into the house where the valve is actually located. My house is 150 years old and it was one of the first things I changed when I bought it. Mine I have located next to the tub and inside the house I feed it both hot and cold thru two ball valves. The hose outside is only about 10’ long and rubber so it bends when freezing out. Just long enough to fill the tub and clean the filter. I also use it with very hot water to blast ice off the steps and cover and deck between door and tub (about 3’).

All this preplanning makes it much easier to handle.

That aside I got a surprise the other day and lost half my water. After I got it fixed I replaced the 200 gallons lost and filled it with hot starting until the tank ran out and then cold. After it was full it was at 95 degrees and in a few hours was up to 103 and we were in it.

I have posted a few times about partial water changes and I’m becoming a fan of doing this, and that is about what my mishap with loosing water turned into. Several times I have done a 1/3 drain and refill it only takes a few minutes it heats back up really fast even if I don’t refill with hot water and the water is noticeably freshened up.

I think a partial fill is a great strategy for people in the cold climates in the cold months.     
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bayviewbums on December 13, 2017, 09:36:07 pm
Reading a lot here. We are new to spa life. We have clear water. PH and Alkalinity test good. We have a sick line. Afraid to treat after reading here. We have new Sundance Chelsea. We were told to use the Leisure time shock after each use. Dealer have us a large bottle of a chemical to add when we did intial fill about 1.5 months ago. We have the Sun Purity mineral
cartridge and the built in UV light sanitizer unit. I have checked with the dealer 3x about adding some kind of bacteria product. He says no. Reading here we should be. And shocking once a week. Is water maintenance different for different spa manufacturers? I feel like we are missing a step.
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: bradleyabell on December 14, 2017, 08:44:02 am
Reading a lot here. We are new to spa life. We have clear water. PH and Alkalinity test good. We have a sick line. Afraid to treat after reading here. We have new Sundance Chelsea. We were told to use the Leisure time shock after each use. Dealer have us a large bottle of a chemical to add when we did intial fill about 1.5 months ago. We have the Sun Purity mineral
cartridge and the built in UV light sanitizer unit. I have checked with the dealer 3x about adding some kind of bacteria product. He says no. Reading here we should be. And shocking once a week. Is water maintenance different for different spa manufacturers? I feel like we are missing a step.

Are you using chlorine or bromine?  What chemicals are you putting in the tub every week?  And when you say you have a "sick line" are you referring to a scum line?  If so, what color is the line?  Have you wiped it with a cloth?
Title: Re: Enzyme issue
Post by: The Wizard of Spas on December 14, 2017, 06:45:05 pm
Reading a lot here. We are new to spa life. We have clear water. PH and Alkalinity test good. We have a sick line. Afraid to treat after reading here. We have new Sundance Chelsea. We were told to use the Leisure time shock after each use. Dealer have us a large bottle of a chemical to add when we did intial fill about 1.5 months ago. We have the Sun Purity mineral
cartridge and the built in UV light sanitizer unit. I have checked with the dealer 3x about adding some kind of bacteria product. He says no. Reading here we should be. And shocking once a week. Is water maintenance different for different spa manufacturers? I feel like we are missing a step.

When things are messy or difficult to understand, don't complicate it.

Water chemistry is universal:  Brands, location, pool vs spa, it doesnt matter.  Its three main things:  pH, Alkalinity, Sanitizer.  There are other things for sure, but these are the three most important things.  pH is the ability of the products to work, alkalinity is helps keep the pH in line as long as possible, and Sanitizer keeps the water clean, clear and healthy (Yes- Its more complicated than that, and there are other considerations, and there are other ramifications, etc.  I know this.  But lets take it in bite-sized answers first, then lets build on your core knowledge going forward).

Once pH and Alkalinity is balance, apply your sanitizer.  Test daily for the first, say 10 days to see if you're using enough, too much, or too little and make the necessary adjustments.  The key is accruing data.  You can't use it only a few times or use it sparingly and get a good feel for what is going on.  So compile data and apply it to pH, alkalinity and sanitizer (balance and adjustments) and then go from there.

I hope this helps.  Good luck moving forward.