Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: wa2bzy on October 26, 2016, 10:58:35 pm
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Hi everyone, I am interested in comments or recent experience with Clearwater or Artesian Spas. We are considering Clearwater St. Andrew & Myrtle Beach or Artesian Antigua Elite. Thanks for the help!
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Full Disclosure: I am an Artesian Spas dealer.
Antiqua Elite is a 3 motor system + Circ pump. 2 unique features found nowhere else: DirectFlow, Switchless Motors.
DirectFlow: 2 of the 3 motors are variable speed motors. (Marquis VECTOR series will be introducing this at the expo but they position their VECTOR series ala the PLATINUM ELITE series from Artesian so lets keep it apples to apples). Nobody does variable speed motors. That gives you the ability to throttle up or down the rpm's on the motor, vs having only one or two speeds. Additionally- Artesian has done this for many years so the kinks have been worked out.
They also put the motor next to the seat that the DirectFlow functions on. This severely reduces all manner of plumbing (Please don't yell at me ala BullFrog Spas plumbing discussions: I only said its reduced. I didn't quantify it, guys!). But yes- Its reduced so you get more bang for your buck out of the motor. When I have one filled in the showroom its actually very quiet too, relative to other spas.
Switchless Motors: 10-15 less moving parts. This encourages a longer lifespan. That will certainly get detractors in a ruffle as, yes, motors are only as good as your water chemistry. Bad water chemistry = breakdown in the seal = water in electrical components. I get that. But it has the ability to last longer if all things are equal. I will say that I have other brands that don't have this feature and I have noticed less issues overall.
They also run a full 5 year parts/labor warranty that I think only Sundance can match. I think Master Spas has one like that but it costs extra. I could be wrong but Artesian is one of the very few with 5 years/100%. And as a dealer I can attest that they're very easy to work with and pay out expeditiously.
They have a CD ozone that lasts five years as a standard feature but you can do CrystalAOP, and they have super-neato special filter blah blah blah. To me its all about water chemistry but some salespeople love to discuss that.
I can go on but really its about comfort: Do you like the way the tub fits your body and do you like the way the jets feel? Then its the dealer- Are they reputable? Do they do their own warranty work? Do they work on the tub outside of the warranty?
I'll let a Clearwater Spas dealer speak to them as I prefer a positive exchange of information.
I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
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^^^Wizard, do you know if Artesian typically has a booth setup at the Pool & Spa show? of course I mean the upcoming show in New Orleans.
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Artesian *WILL* be there. I will not as I went last year and I don't expect much to have changed in the industry.
I'd insert an image of their booth but I don't know how to/Don't have the permission to in the settings.
Of the booths that are there (Apollo Group and Watkins do NOT go, which kind sucks cause that is a big chunk of the top end spas), Bullfrog, Marquis, Strong, and Artesian have the coolest, cleanest, neatest booths. Coast Spas booth isn't bad. There are some Asian market tubs that are there but we only buy American so I didn't really scope them out, but their booths were ok. Some booths were embarrassing.
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Artesian *WILL* be there. I will not as I went last year and I don't expect much to have changed in the industry.
I'd insert an image of their booth but I don't know how to/Don't have the permission to in the settings.
Of the booths that are there (Apollo Group and Watkins do NOT go, which kind sucks cause that is a big chunk of the top end spas), Bullfrog, Marquis, Strong, and Artesian have the coolest, cleanest, neatest booths. Coast Spas booth isn't bad. There are some Asian market tubs that are there but we only buy American so I didn't really scope them out, but their booths were ok. Some booths were embarrassing.
Ya I was there last year also, I'm going this year and not really anticipating anything really new but it's nice to get away for a few days. Bullfrog does a good job, I just recently worked on some showroom graphics with the same guy who designs their booth, he's incredibly creative. Marquis does a good job as well and they act the part of a professional outfit. It's a shame Watkins doesn't do a booth but there top execs are definitely there is mass quantity (keeping an eye on their long standing dealers lol) I don't remember Artesian being there but I'll check them out, they are represented in this market by a 'Family Leisure' so of course I'm not interested in picking them up at this time but I'm always curious about all the products in this industry. My fav. terrible booths are the Asian booths...white table cloth, white sign (written in Chinese) and absolutely no other indicator of what they actually sell, lol
anyways sorry for the derail OP...back to your regularly scheduled programming :-)
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Love a variable speed pump, been putting them in small indoor pools for 10 years. Nice to see them getting more compact for this market. Wouldn't be surprised if more manufacturers started throwing them in soon beside Marquis. Good job Artesian.
Are they more expensive to replace?
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Full Disclosure: I am an Artesian Spas dealer.
Antiqua Elite is a 3 motor system + Circ pump. 2 unique features found nowhere else: DirectFlow, Switchless Motors.
DirectFlow: 2 of the 3 motors are variable speed motors. (Marquis VECTOR series will be introducing this at the expo but they position their VECTOR series ala the PLATINUM ELITE series from Artesian so lets keep it apples to apples). Nobody does variable speed motors. That gives you the ability to throttle up or down the rpm's on the motor, vs having only one or two speeds. Additionally- Artesian has done this for many years so the kinks have been worked out.
They also put the motor next to the seat that the DirectFlow functions on. This severely reduces all manner of plumbing (Please don't yell at me ala BullFrog Spas plumbing discussions: I only said its reduced. I didn't quantify it, guys!). But yes- Its reduced so you get more bang for your buck out of the motor. When I have one filled in the showroom its actually very quiet too, relative to other spas.
Switchless Motors: 10-15 less moving parts. This encourages a longer lifespan. That will certainly get detractors in a ruffle as, yes, motors are only as good as your water chemistry. Bad water chemistry = breakdown in the seal = water in electrical components. I get that. But it has the ability to last longer if all things are equal. I will say that I have other brands that don't have this feature and I have noticed less issues overall.
They also run a full 5 year parts/labor warranty that I think only Sundance can match. I think Master Spas has one like that but it costs extra. I could be wrong but Artesian is one of the very few with 5 years/100%. And as a dealer I can attest that they're very easy to work with and pay out expeditiously. Bullfrog, Hot Springs, Marquis, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Dimension 1 all have 5 year parts and labor component warranties
They have a CD ozone that lasts five years as a standard feature but you can do CrystalAOP, and they have super-neato special filter blah blah blah. To me its all about water chemistry but some salespeople love to discuss that.
I can go on but really its about comfort: Do you like the way the tub fits your body and do you like the way the jets feel? Then its the dealer- Are they reputable? Do they do their own warranty work? Do they work on the tub outside of the warranty?
I'll let a Clearwater Spas dealer speak to them as I prefer a positive exchange of information.
I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
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Never really looked at artesianbefore either. Will have to stop by the booth in New Orleans and check them out
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They are and they aren't, really: Artesian does 3 motors on their 7' Island Elites (2 DirectFlow motors, one regular motor) and 4 motors on their 8' Island Elites (same just +1 reg motor). The DirectFlow motors are 2HP so tho they're variable speed, they're still small. So yes its more than a standard 2hp motor but it lasts longer as its switchless. You can argue both ways as its very next level stuff. Its an interesting give and take when I am going against another dealer.
The motor is right there next to the seat so it doesn't have to be a big HP to be effective. Then you get the benefits of variable speed; whether it be the ability to throttle up or down the motor with the dial to customize flow or the efficiency angle. Then add on that they're switchless motors with less moving parts.
The Platinum Elites are their super high-end units and they have either 4 or 5 DirectFlow seats. But then they have a special heater that will automatically switch from 110 to 240 depending on the number of motors being used. This is to help with energy, which is also pretty cool.
Marquis is introducing VS motors on their 2 VECTOR units at the show so it'll be interesting to see how they're doing it. Currently Artesian has 12 units that do VS and I am hoping that expands as its a pretty cool sales feature (along with the switchless motors), especially since Marquis (and likely other companies as this is a copy-cat industry) will be in tow soon enough.
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Full Disclosure: I am an Artesian Spas dealer.
Antiqua Elite is a 3 motor system + Circ pump. 2 unique features found nowhere else: DirectFlow, Switchless Motors.
DirectFlow: 2 of the 3 motors are variable speed motors. (Marquis VECTOR series will be introducing this at the expo but they position their VECTOR series ala the PLATINUM ELITE series from Artesian so lets keep it apples to apples). Nobody does variable speed motors. That gives you the ability to throttle up or down the rpm's on the motor, vs having only one or two speeds. Additionally- Artesian has done this for many years so the kinks have been worked out.
They also put the motor next to the seat that the DirectFlow functions on. This severely reduces all manner of plumbing (Please don't yell at me ala BullFrog Spas plumbing discussions: I only said its reduced. I didn't quantify it, guys!). But yes- Its reduced so you get more bang for your buck out of the motor. When I have one filled in the showroom its actually very quiet too, relative to other spas.
Switchless Motors: 10-15 less moving parts. This encourages a longer lifespan. That will certainly get detractors in a ruffle as, yes, motors are only as good as your water chemistry. Bad water chemistry = breakdown in the seal = water in electrical components. I get that. But it has the ability to last longer if all things are equal. I will say that I have other brands that don't have this feature and I have noticed less issues overall.
They also run a full 5 year parts/labor warranty that I think only Sundance can match. I think Master Spas has one like that but it costs extra. I could be wrong but Artesian is one of the very few with 5 years/100%. And as a dealer I can attest that they're very easy to work with and pay out expeditiously. Bullfrog, Hot Springs, Marquis, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Dimension 1 all have 5 year parts and labor component warranties
They have a CD ozone that lasts five years as a standard feature but you can do CrystalAOP, and they have super-neato special filter blah blah blah. To me its all about water chemistry but some salespeople love to discuss that.
I can go on but really its about comfort: Do you like the way the tub fits your body and do you like the way the jets feel? Then its the dealer- Are they reputable? Do they do their own warranty work? Do they work on the tub outside of the warranty?
I'll let a Clearwater Spas dealer speak to them as I prefer a positive exchange of information.
I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward.
I caught that to BSFM but stayed quiet.
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You're H.O.F. in my opinion. Im just a minnow trying to not get gulped up by the big boys, Tman. I thoroughly enjoy your takes on BF and know I'd get ran out of the arena if I didn't toss up a per-emptive white flag. :)
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You're H.O.F. in my opinion. Im just a minnow trying to not get gulped up by the big boys, Tman. I thoroughly enjoy your takes on BF and know I'd get ran out of the arena if I didn't toss up a per-emptive white flag. :)
LOL As you know facts can be skewed hundreds of ways to make a "different" fact. I just don't like un-facts. The BF guys are energetic.
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Where did you hear Marquis is doing variable speed pump on their vector line because that's not true. They are introducing some new stuff but not variable speed pumps.
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It's new. It should be introduced at the upcoming show. I was down to Marquis or Artesian and though ultimately we went Artesian I really respect Marquis and the rep keeps in touch with me. He keeps me in the loop on what is happening with them, and that was one of the things we've discussed as he continues to try an lure me to their brand.
I secretly hope its not true as its cutting into a sales feature that is currently exclusive to Artesian Spas. But it is unless he's being untruthful. If that is the case then shame on me. But that is my understanding.
[Edit: Spelling]
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Artesian does not have variable speed motors they would cost a fortune. You can adjust the pressure up and down but they use balboa pumps nothing super exotic. Not trying to be a pain just inform.
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Artesian does not have variable speed motors they would cost a fortune. You can adjust the pressure up and down but they use balboa pumps nothing super exotic. Not trying to be a pain just inform.
I didn't think so. I just looked they are doing variable flow control which is something similar to what marquis does with the vector tubs but not variable speed pumps
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Artesian does not have variable speed motors they would cost a fortune. You can adjust the pressure up and down but they use balboa pumps nothing super exotic. Not trying to be a pain just inform.
On Platinum Elite & Island Elites they do. Yes: You can adjust the pressure (water flow) up or down but that is because you have a dial that you increase or decrease the amount of amperage from the motor. That increases or decreases the RPMs. Thus- Variable Speed. This is the same as what is happening with the in ground pool industry. This is not a two speed motor, nor is it adjusted by diverter valves.
Platinum Elites ONLY have variable speed pumps, all connected to DirectFlow controls. Island Elites have (2) VS pumps connected to DirectFlow controls, and at least one standard pump. Island Spas, South Seas Spas and Garden Spas all have just standard pumps.
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The artesian platinum use a power wow 3 hp 1 speed 220v pump part number#21-0025-81. It is not variable speed. The knobs that adjust the pressure are just air valves. They cause cavitation which causes lower flow. The pump does not have to work as hard and so amperage would drop a little as well. On the Tidal Fit swim spas you can actually adjust the pressure for the swim jets instead of just off and on like all the others. BTW artesian platinum has awesome pressure just like Bullfrog. And for tman the bullfrog koolaid tastes so good you should try some :D
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The artesian platinum use a power wow 3 hp 1 speed 220v pump part number#21-0025-81. It is not variable speed. The knobs that adjust the pressure are just air valves. They cause cavitation which causes lower flow. The pump does not have to work as hard and so amperage would drop a little as well. On the Tidal Fit swim spas you can actually adjust the pressure for the swim jets instead of just off and on like all the others. BTW artesian platinum has awesome pressure just like Bullfrog. And for tman the bullfrog koolaid tastes so good you should try some :D
I imagine that being like the system on the AquaTrainer line from Hydropool Swim Spas...push buttons to increase/decrease, very nice setup actually...and don't let Tman fool you, he's been pm'ing me asking for a Bullfrog hat and Jacket so he can become a brand ambassador in Northern MN...hahaha 8)
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The artesian platinum use a power wow 3 hp 1 speed 220v pump part number#21-0025-81. It is not variable speed. The knobs that adjust the pressure are just air valves. They cause cavitation which causes lower flow. The pump does not have to work as hard and so amperage would drop a little as well. On the Tidal Fit swim spas you can actually adjust the pressure for the swim jets instead of just off and on like all the others. BTW artesian platinum has awesome pressure just like Bullfrog. And for tman the bullfrog koolaid tastes so good you should try some :D
That is the correct part number. However, the air has its own control. You can turn the air off completely and still turn the water flow up and down. The air has nothing to do with the water pressure with the jets. The DirectFlow allows you to physically dial up or down the amperage of the specific motor in the specific seat you are using. The increase or decrease of the amps will increase or decrease the RPMs.
DirectFlow controls have 3 buttons: One is the ON/OFF for the motor, one is the venturi air control, and one is a physical knob that you can turn up or down. It is not an on/off but rather a dial, like that on a radio.
If you were injecting air to cause cavatation in the pump there would be air bubbles in the water stream when the venturi air control is closed. That is not the case.
The entire time that the water is off, the flow can be increased or decreased. None of it is by diversion. Its all about the motor and how fast or slow it is going.
[Edit: Clarification]
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Check them out when your in New Orleans the adjustment is unlike any thing i have seen in any other tub. I have no idea how the hydro pool buttons work looks to be electronic instead of pneumatic.
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Check them out when your in New Orleans the adjustment is unlike any thing i have seen in any other tub. I have no idea how the hydro pool buttons work looks to be electronic instead of pneumatic.
I'll have to check them out when I'm down there next week
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Wizard your killing me. Yes the tub has a normal air valve and that is a push button style on off air jet system like every hot tub has. That adjusts the air at the jet as it is drawn in. The knob that adjusts the pressure has a small air tube attached that is plumbed right before the intake at the pump. Turning the knob down for less pressure adds air bubbles that cause cavitation. There is no wire from that control to the pump or the pack just an air tube. If you turn the air off in that seat and have the power all the way on you will see no bubbles. Then if you turn the power down you will see small bubbles.
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First off- love the give and take. This is all positive and I enjoy the exchange of ideas, points etc. and if I am off the mark on this I'm a very humble dude and will freely admit it. Could have sworn it's varible speed so I am going to look under the hood in the showroom to confirm either my ignorance or reaffirm my ability to every once and a while to be right ;)
I'll walk with you on that but we have tech that we show the actual reduction/increase in amps. How is that a thing? Now you got me questioning myself (a good thing- I hate relaying incorrect info, hence loving the back and forth).
I'm off till Monday and am going to take apart my spa and look for this tube as well as the other points you mentioned.
Good exchange tho. Y'all are excellent. Off to drink some beers now. Ciao!
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So are they or aren't they reo-statically controlled variable speed pumps like the Pentaire Inteliflow?
And damn straight I want that hat and jacket.
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So are they or aren't they reo-statically controlled variable speed pumps like the Pentaire Inteliflow?
And damn straight I want that hat and jacket.
not if it has an air tube as described above, sounds like a "poor mans version" to me, I still wanna see how it works...Like I stated before Hydropool has a true push button pneumatic system attached to the swim jets on their AquaTrainer models, no air being introduced, just pure water and each swim jet is powered by its own pump, its freakin ridiculously powerful and a very cool system...$$$ though
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Eating all the crow today. All of it.
I have always had my tubs hooked up to a program on our tv display that shows amperage and always adjusted the flow to show customers that you're messing with the speeds, RMPs, etc. and never really looked at the specific motor when it came to the air lines and the cavitation, etc.
I was wrong on this one guys. Its got that air line as mentioned.
Welp- Again, this is why I come to these forums: To learn new things every day.
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I think the reduced amperage is because the cavitation makes the motor not work as hard so it draws less amps. If you haven't seen it in person its a simple fix to a complex problem. BTW wizard the only reason i have any idea about this is i too sell artesian spas and when we brought them on a called and wanted to know how it worked it took a couple of people until i talked to an engineer to explain it to me.