Hot Tub Forum
Brand Specific Forums => Bullfrog Spas => Topic started by: flipflopper on March 24, 2016, 02:04:09 pm
-
Greetings, fellow board members. I'm in the market for hot tub and am inclined to go used on either a Sundance or Jacuzzi but the Bullfrogs at the nearest dealer keep drawing my eye - they seem highquality, they are comfortable, and they seem affordable. The dealer sells Sundance, Jacuzzi, Viking and Bullfrog so they seem committed to a range of tubs and Bullfrog would be middle-of-the-road in their line-up.
I value internet reviews on this forum very highly in my decision-making process. The trouble is, there aren't any very recent reviews on Bullfrog spas that I've found. The most recent would be 2013 and that is already going back three years. It seemed like the company had built some buzz and there was a converted faithful that felt the company was really moving forward. But even the latest reviews from 2013 and earlier I've found are not very in depth and only mention Bullfrog in passing. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that a manufacturer's quality can go up or down greatly in a three-year time span, regardless of product or market.
I'd love to hear from you if you have an informed opinion about Bullfrog spas that you're willing to share. Especially from those who have had their tubs for several or more years.
Edit: I found this more recent review but the thread was taken in a different direction that is rather unhelpful.
-
Greetings, fellow board members. I'm in the market for hot tub and am inclined to go used on either a Sundance or Jacuzzi but the Bullfrogs at the nearest dealer keep drawing my eye - they seem highquality, they are comfortable, and they seem affordable. The dealer sells Sundance, Jacuzzi, Viking and Bullfrog so they seem committed to a range of tubs and Bullfrog would be middle-of-the-road in their line-up.
I value internet reviews on this forum very highly in my decision-making process. The trouble is, there aren't any very recent reviews on Bullfrog spas that I've found. The most recent would be 2013 and that is already going back three years. It seemed like the company had built some buzz and there was a converted faithful that felt the company was really moving forward. But even the latest reviews from 2013 and earlier I've found are not very in depth and only mention Bullfrog in passing. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has noticed that a manufacturer's quality can go up or down greatly in a three-year time span, regardless of product or market.
I'd love to hear from you if you have an informed opinion about Bullfrog spas that you're willing to share. Especially from those who have had their tubs for several or more years.
Edit: I found this more recent review but the thread was taken in a different direction that is rather unhelpful.
I am new to this site and am also looking for advice but, I figured I would share my thoughts because Bullfrog was one of my choices for a little while. I am an engineer in a manufacturing facility so I love getting into the details of a manufactured product. The thing that I didn't like was the way they have there warranty. From everything I have learned the main things to go are the pumps or the pluming it self. They don't even say they guarantee the pluming?
I first liked the idea of the jet packs but the more I thought of it I doubt they could compete with a Marquis or Caldera spa.
I personally like the Caldera & Marquis and I am trying to pick one at the moment.
I hope you get your answers and maybe you will get something out of what I said?
-
The thing that I didn't like was the way they have there warranty. From everything I have learned the main things to go are the pumps or the pluming it self. They don't even say they guarantee the pluming?
Taken from the warranty section of their website... http://www.bullfrogspas.com/warranty/
5 year Warranty
Equipment
Warranty specifically covers the pump(s), heater, control system (including fuses), SnapCaps™, FilterCap™, other Bullfrog mechanical equipment, and leaks from any component or plumbing fitting located beneath the spa shell.
I've been very pleased with my Bullfrog R7. We use it 4-5 times a week. I've only had the R7 since October 2015, but have had a spa for 15+ years so it's not my first one. We had a minor control panel issue when it was first installed, the dealer took care of that for us promptly. Have had zero other issues.
We also looked at Hot Spring, Sundance, Jacuzzi, Artesian, and Caldera. Chose the Bullfrog for the seating layout, the modular jetpacks allowed us to choose what types of jets we wanted. After dealing with leaks and rot in my last tub, I was a fan of the less plumbing and no wood design, but that was not going to make or break it.
-
I've been in this industry for 14 years now, I'll save my opinion since of course I am a little biased since I currently sell Bullfrog but I'll just leave a nice 17 minute video here for you guys to watch..it is basically a "brochure in video form" for those who want to learn more about the product without having to go into a showroom. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll give you my best unbiased opinion. This video is also on their website, just posted it for those who may have "skipped over it"
First 3 minutes is "fluff" but the rest is great info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY)
-
I've been in this industry for 14 years now, I'll save my opinion since of course I am a little biased since I currently sell Bullfrog but I'll just leave a nice 17 minute video here for you guys to watch..it is basically a "brochure in video form" for those who want to learn more about the product without having to go into a showroom. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll give you my best unbiased opinion. This video is also on their website, just posted it for those who may have "skipped over it"
First 3 minutes is "fluff" but the rest is great info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY)
Thanks for the video that was pretty cool! The one thing I see is it is fully encapsulated with foam. Brands like Caldera have a system to be able to get to those possible leaks with out destroying the integrity of the insulation. How does Bullfrog tackle this potential issue?
-
I've been in this industry for 14 years now, I'll save my opinion since of course I am a little biased since I currently sell Bullfrog but I'll just leave a nice 17 minute video here for you guys to watch..it is basically a "brochure in video form" for those who want to learn more about the product without having to go into a showroom. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll give you my best unbiased opinion. This video is also on their website, just posted it for those who may have "skipped over it"
First 3 minutes is "fluff" but the rest is great info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY)
Thanks for the video that was pretty cool! The one thing I see is it is fully encapsulated with foam. Brands like Caldera have a system to be able to get to those possible leaks with out destroying the integrity of the insulation. How does Bullfrog tackle this potential issue?
With the JetPak system 90% of the plumbing is eliminated, the little that is remaining is serviced just like any other full foam spa...Caldera uses FiberCor which I'll admit is easier to "dig" than traditional foam but you still have a rats nest of plumbing underneath...see image below :-) More plumbing = more resistance on your pumps = more diverter valves to fail, not to mention you are "stuck" with the seats/jet locations a traditional spa forces on you..here you have 17 different JetPaks to choose from so YOU choose the massage in YOUR favorite seat in the spa...its a beautiful thing
(http://i64.tinypic.com/29f2wyf.jpg)
-
I've been in this industry for 14 years now, I'll save my opinion since of course I am a little biased since I currently sell Bullfrog but I'll just leave a nice 17 minute video here for you guys to watch..it is basically a "brochure in video form" for those who want to learn more about the product without having to go into a showroom. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll give you my best unbiased opinion. This video is also on their website, just posted it for those who may have "skipped over it"
First 3 minutes is "fluff" but the rest is great info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY)
Thanks for the video that was pretty cool! The one thing I see is it is fully encapsulated with foam. Brands like Caldera have a system to be able to get to those possible leaks with out destroying the integrity of the insulation. How does Bullfrog tackle this potential issue?
With the JetPak system 90% of the plumbing is eliminated, the little that is remaining is serviced just like any other full foam spa...Caldera uses FiberCor which I'll admit is easier to "dig" than traditional foam but you still have a rats nest of plumbing underneath...see image below :-) More plumbing = more resistance on your pumps = more diverter valves to fail, not to mention you are "stuck" with the seats/jet locations a traditional spa forces on you..here you have 17 different JetPaks to choose from so YOU choose the massage in YOUR favorite seat in the spa...its a beautiful thing
(http://i64.tinypic.com/29f2wyf.jpg)
Good info, sorry for all the questions, but what if you buy a jet pack and a year later you want a different one? Can you get something for the old one? And if so how much compared to the original price? Also I want a lounger it doesn't look like there a many jets for below the waist? Are the jet packs only for the back of the seats? Can you get jet packs that are below the waist? (legs)
-
I've been in this industry for 14 years now, I'll save my opinion since of course I am a little biased since I currently sell Bullfrog but I'll just leave a nice 17 minute video here for you guys to watch..it is basically a "brochure in video form" for those who want to learn more about the product without having to go into a showroom. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll give you my best unbiased opinion. This video is also on their website, just posted it for those who may have "skipped over it"
First 3 minutes is "fluff" but the rest is great info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY)
Thanks for the video that was pretty cool! The one thing I see is it is fully encapsulated with foam. Brands like Caldera have a system to be able to get to those possible leaks with out destroying the integrity of the insulation. How does Bullfrog tackle this potential issue?
With the JetPak system 90% of the plumbing is eliminated, the little that is remaining is serviced just like any other full foam spa...Caldera uses FiberCor which I'll admit is easier to "dig" than traditional foam but you still have a rats nest of plumbing underneath...see image below :-) More plumbing = more resistance on your pumps = more diverter valves to fail, not to mention you are "stuck" with the seats/jet locations a traditional spa forces on you..here you have 17 different JetPaks to choose from so YOU choose the massage in YOUR favorite seat in the spa...its a beautiful thing
(http://i64.tinypic.com/29f2wyf.jpg)
Good info, sorry for all the questions, but what if you buy a jet pack and a year later you want a different one? Can you get something for the old one? And if so how much compared to the original price? Also I want a lounger it doesn't look like there a many jets for below the waist? Are the jet packs only for the back of the seats? Can you get jet packs that are below the waist? (legs)
If you want another or different JetPak a year later you can purchase one...and not to speak on behalf of other dealers but there is no "trade in" program to speak of, we do deeply discount "extra paks" that we acquired throughout the year (as do a lot of dealers I've spoken too) so there always opportunity to "change up" your massage for a discount. Most lounge models have 4 calf jets + 2 foot jets + 2 hip jets on the lounge itself...JetPaks are for your back only, but a lot of customers sit on the "edge" of the spa to get some good jets on the calf area or also flip around in the seat to hit the quads...just do yourself a favor if you have a Bullfrog dealer within driving distance and go test your other brands that interest you then go wet test a Bullfrog and see what you think. A wet test can save you TONS of time researching, I had a customer who researched a model for 2-3 months, I convinced them of a wet test (because it was a lounger model) and they left the store buying a completely different model with no lounge so they really can be beneficial and save you a lot of "brochure reading time"...just my .02
-
I've had my A7 for almost a year now and have thoroughly enjoyed it. I'm in it 5-6 nights a week and there have been zero problems.
I wrote an extensive review but it doesn't show up in the search now, don't know why. Anyway, the reasons I chose a Bullfrog are generally the same as others: Made in the USA, no wood or metal in the structure, full ABS bottom pan, high quality fit/finish, drastically reduced amount of plumbing, high-quality pumps and parts, choosing which jetpacks I liked (I haven't purchased another one yet, but we change their positions around depending on who wants what in which seat), strong power at all the seats without a bunch of diverter valves, individually adjustable jet power at each seat, and no-questions-asked warranty.
I tried many other brands/models and they were all mostly nice, but in my opinion the Bullfrog was superior in construction and engineering, and of those I tested only the Bullfrog could produce strong power at every seat simultaneously. The others I tested could only produce more power at one seat by turning others down quite significantly, but in a Bullfrog all the seats can be turned up to full power and still have very strong jets for everyone.
Lots of nice spas available, lots of different features, lots of different opinions, all comes down to what's important to you.
-
Welcome to the forum! Sundance and Jacuzzi are good tubs. Unfortunately I don't have a Bull Frog dealer near me. We have had several recent members purchase Bull Frog tubs and they seem satisfied. We have one or two people here that have had them a few years.
-
Putting the manifolds and plumbing right next to your back in the tub IMO makes them noisier than others.
-
I've been in this industry for 14 years now, I'll save my opinion since of course I am a little biased since I currently sell Bullfrog but I'll just leave a nice 17 minute video here for you guys to watch..it is basically a "brochure in video form" for those who want to learn more about the product without having to go into a showroom. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll give you my best unbiased opinion. This video is also on their website, just posted it for those who may have "skipped over it"
First 3 minutes is "fluff" but the rest is great info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY)
Thanks for the video that was pretty cool! The one thing I see is it is fully encapsulated with foam. Brands like Caldera have a system to be able to get to those possible leaks with out destroying the integrity of the insulation. How does Bullfrog tackle this potential issue?
With the JetPak system 90% of the plumbing is eliminated, the little that is remaining is serviced just like any other full foam spa...Caldera uses FiberCor which I'll admit is easier to "dig" than traditional foam but you still have a rats nest of plumbing underneath...see image below :-) More plumbing = more resistance on your pumps = more diverter valves to fail, not to mention you are "stuck" with the seats/jet locations a traditional spa forces on you..here you have 17 different JetPaks to choose from so YOU choose the massage in YOUR favorite seat in the spa...its a beautiful thing
(http://i64.tinypic.com/29f2wyf.jpg)
Lets not start this BS again!!!! 90% less plumbing than the tub pictured. Not all tubs. Don't forget to count the plumbing inside the jet pac. Jeeeeez the BS is flying again.
-
Again, there is no plumbing inside the jet pac. Bullfrog spas are not going anywhere so get over it.. ;)
-
I've been in this industry for 14 years now, I'll save my opinion since of course I am a little biased since I currently sell Bullfrog but I'll just leave a nice 17 minute video here for you guys to watch..it is basically a "brochure in video form" for those who want to learn more about the product without having to go into a showroom. Any questions feel free to ask and I'll give you my best unbiased opinion. This video is also on their website, just posted it for those who may have "skipped over it"
First 3 minutes is "fluff" but the rest is great info. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SjHrqYZSYY)
Thanks for the video that was pretty cool! The one thing I see is it is fully encapsulated with foam. Brands like Caldera have a system to be able to get to those possible leaks with out destroying the integrity of the insulation. How does Bullfrog tackle this potential issue?
With the JetPak system 90% of the plumbing is eliminated, the little that is remaining is serviced just like any other full foam spa...Caldera uses FiberCor which I'll admit is easier to "dig" than traditional foam but you still have a rats nest of plumbing underneath...see image below :-) More plumbing = more resistance on your pumps = more diverter valves to fail, not to mention you are "stuck" with the seats/jet locations a traditional spa forces on you..here you have 17 different JetPaks to choose from so YOU choose the massage in YOUR favorite seat in the spa...its a beautiful thing
(http://i64.tinypic.com/29f2wyf.jpg)
Lets not start this BS again!!!! 90% less plumbing than the tub pictured. Not all tubs. Don't forget to count the plumbing inside the jet pac. Jeeeeez the BS is flying again.
Look at all that plumbing!!!!! lol...if you could do some research before letting false information out that would be great :-)
(http://i63.tinypic.com/szigwy.jpg)
-
;D
-
Well, this message prompted me to use Bullfrog's website to see if any dealers have moved in near me. No new dealers, but I did find one of the only two dealers worth going to in Columbus (IMO) is now carrying Bullfrog. Next time I need chemicals, I may have to stop in just to look at them. (If MJB will forgive me)
That other dealer (Scioto Valley) has been around a long time and has has carried HotSprings for as long as I can remember, but has carried many other brands that have come and gone. I will stop and look just for the education.
-
Putting the manifolds and plumbing right next to your back in the tub IMO makes them noisier than others.
The first few times we used ours I was hearing a strange noise/vibration when jets were on high. I first thought it was the jet pack... swapped them around and it didn't change. Opened up the equipment bay to investigate and found that one of the air inlet hoses had found it's way to a spot up against the shell and was making a noise that was transmitting outside. Moved it a couple inches away and all was fine. Point being, that little hose sucking some air inside the cabinet was louder than any perceived noise from the jetpacks or manifolds.
Your logic seems reasonable. Maybe if you had them to test side by side you might be able to perceive that. But in testing different brands at different locations, we never noticed it as an issue at all. Our Bullfrog is also much quieter than our old Dimension One that only had 15 jets in it. But all newer hot tubs are quieter than the old ones because they've improved the pumps. That's where most of the noise comes from.
-
Putting the manifolds and plumbing right next to your back in the tub IMO makes them noisier than others.
The first few times we used ours I was hearing a strange noise/vibration when jets were on high. I first thought it was the jet pack... swapped them around and it didn't change. Opened up the equipment bay to investigate and found that one of the air inlet hoses had found it's way to a spot up against the shell and was making a noise that was transmitting outside. Moved it a couple inches away and all was fine. Point being, that little hose sucking some air inside the cabinet was louder than any perceived noise from the jetpacks or manifolds.
Your logic seems reasonable. Maybe if you had them to test side by side you might be able to perceive that. But in testing different brands at different locations, we never noticed it as an issue at all. Our Bullfrog is also much quieter than our old Dimension One that only had 15 jets in it. But all newer hot tubs are quieter than the old ones because they've improved the pumps. That's where most of the noise comes from.
They are not any noisier whatsoever...I have 3 brands on my floor and at least 1 model from each brand "running" the Bullfrog is not louder than any of them. They can be louder when you add the JetPaks made specifically for the neck because now you have jets "above water" shooting down into the water, but as far as the mechanical aspect and the JetPak itself (where the water and air mix) there is no discernible difference between Bullfrog and other premium brands from what I have experienced and/or sold in the past
-
Putting the manifolds and plumbing right next to your back in the tub IMO makes them noisier than others.
Your logic seems reasonable. Maybe if you had them to test side by side you might be able to perceive that. But in testing different brands at different locations, we never noticed it as an issue at all. Our Bullfrog is also much quieter than our old Dimension One that only had 15 jets in it. But all newer hot tubs are quieter than the old ones because they've improved the pumps. That's where most of the noise comes from.
I agree...we've been shopping around looking at various tubs and Bullfrogs are not any louder nor quieter than others. Most of the noise is from the pumps and transmitted sonic vibrations throughout the shell of the tub. This kind of noise can't be avoided as the vibration and sonic resonances of water movement is inherent to all hot tubs.
We're still looking to do a wet test of the Bullfrog tubs (timing is an issue for us for various reasons). But unless there's something truly wrong with the seating or functionality, I believe we have decided on Bullfrog due to the benefits of less plumbing, decent design and quality, and being able to customize the tub with jetpaks that suit our needs.
-
Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.
Can you Bullfrog sales folks tell us consumers what brand of tub you used in that comparison photo that you are throwing around? That would be important information to know. Are there 3 or 4 or 5 jet pacs in the bullfrog model that you are comparing side by side with the other tub? Your calling it a tradition tub, what brand and model of traditional tub is in your photo?
Sales BS takes extremes and put them side by side to reflect better on the sales BS creaters product. I like to make sure that the comparison is proper before I buy into the sales BS skewed to the creater. So if you could help me to make sure the comparison is apples to apples that would help.
Remember I am a potential purchaser. I DO NOT sell any brand.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MldHtAStjA0 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MldHtAStjA0)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4IEgALNsTo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m4IEgALNsTo)
-
So your comparison photo used a Calspa? How many jets did that Calspa have if that's what your saying/implying?
I didn't hear it mentioned and don't like to assume.
-
So your comparison photo used a Calspa? How many jets did that Calspa have if that's what your saying/implying?
I didn't hear it mentioned and don't like to assume.
you remind me of the competitors who sell against us at Home Shows/Events...desperately trying to grasp at anything to try and sell against us...pack a lunch Tman, it's a steep, long climb up that hill :-)
-
So your comparison photo used a Calspa? How many jets did that Calspa have if that's what your saying/implying?
I didn't hear it mentioned and don't like to assume.
Cal spa was the only decent one I could find to show "others" how a conventional spa is built. And how much plumbing goes in on one. Sad thing is, that still doesn't show really how much plumbing there is on any given spa. Like Jacuzzi, Sundance or any other spa for that matter except Bullfrog. In the end it doesn't really matter what spa it is in the picture, but it gives the consumer the visual of how a conventional spa is built. And if you can't agree on that then you do not know as much as you think you know about how one is put together. 90% less plumbing or not Bullfrog still uses way way less plumbing than any other spa.
-
So your comparison photo used a Calspa? How many jets did that Calspa have if that's what your saying/implying?
I didn't hear it mentioned and don't like to assume.
Cal spa was the only decent one I could find to show "others" how a conventional spa is built. And how much plumbing goes in on one. Sad thing is, that still doesn't show really how much plumbing there is on any given spa. Like Jacuzzi, Sundance or any other spa for that matter except Bullfrog. In the end it doesn't really matter what spa it is in the picture, but it gives the consumer the visual of how a conventional spa is built. And if you can't agree on that then you do not know as much as you think you know about how one is put together. 90% less plumbing or not Bullfrog still uses way way less plumbing than any other spa.
Remember the hill wasn't that steep last time. I will give you a 100% guarantee that there is NOT 90% less plumbing. That is a deceptive sales practice. Is there less plumbing? Yes. Is there less manifolds? No. Just because Bullfrog don't count the manifolds inside the jet pacs, I and anyone familiar with plumbing will call it plumbing. Bullfrog salesman maybe not so much?
But maybe I am wrong, maybe they work just fine without jet pacs? Just like the full power at all jets all the time. That was a pretty flat hill also.
-
You are like trying to tell a liberal why Hillary or Bernie shouldn't be president. Some day you might get it.. There are no manifolds with lines that run to each jet inside the pac.
-
You are like trying to tell a liberal why Hillary or Bernie shouldn't be president.
Really? ::)
If your politics oozes out of your pores on a hot tub forum, you might want to go for a soak, release some of those toxins and relax.
-
Well sometimes people just don't get it.
-
I'm a Bullfrog owner and are very happy with ours, going on 3 years no problems. It is not noisy and we wet tested a lot of spas before deciding on Bullfrog. I would highly recommend Bullfrog and suggest anyone who is interested to wet test - actually wet test as many different spa brands as you can. Happy spa hunting!
-
Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.
Like I said, your theory seems reasonable... but in actual use, I'm not hearing it. How many Bullfrog Spas have you used?
-
Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.
Like I said, your theory seems reasonable... but in actual use, I'm not hearing it. How many Bullfrog Spas have you used?
1
How many have you tried?
-
Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.
Like I said, your theory seems reasonable... but in actual use, I'm not hearing it. How many Bullfrog Spas have you used?
1
How many have you tried?
Was it the new design or the old design? Could you actually hear a discernible noise from the jetpacks?
For me.. 3 different tubs, 1 old design, 2 different new ones, one of which I own. And have never noticed noise like that.
-
Instead of splitting the water flow after the pump and then directing through hoses to the individual jets. Bullfrog splits the water flow behind the jet pacs and sends it to the individual jets. It's plumbing. Plumbing creates water cavitation. Water cavitation makes noise.
Like I said, your theory seems reasonable... but in actual use, I'm not hearing it. How many Bullfrog Spas have you used?
1
How many have you tried?
Was it the new design or the old design? Could you actually hear a discernible noise from the jetpacks?
For me.. 3 different tubs, 1 old design, 2 different new ones, one of which I own. And have never noticed noise like that.
New design, I will hold my opinion on the noise created by moving the manifolds/fluid distribution closer to your ears. Most customers, like you, it may not matter.
This board is for information and not sales. Any company that comes here and throws BS sales rhetoric should get corrected. Bullfrog just happens to be the most recent. Most dealers here are pretty good. Listing the potential positives should also be followed by the potential negatives. People are passionate. Owners and dealers alike.
If you removed the insulation (might not be much to remove) from a 120 jet 4 pump Master Spa and set it side by side with a two pump BF and didn't count the water channels/plumbing inside the BF jet pacs you could potentially come up with 90% less plumbing. But because it has 2 less pumps and a bunch less jets it should have 50% less plumbing. That's deceiving. Flip over a 40 jet Marquis Euphoria and tell me BF has 90% less plumbing. Or do what BF does and just imply what they are showing you is them compared to all other spas. And........maybe 90% less plumbing means moving less water, negatively impacting the hydrotherapy? This can be spun a lot of different ways.
My point is, if stuff like that is going to be throw into the mix lets look at it closely. That's why we are here to help potential buyers. Not sell tubs. Your a BF owner Racenut. I trust your opinion of how YOUR tub works for YOU. But lets get the sales BS out of our advice for our posters.
No need to thank me.
-
You're really hung up on that 90% thing... I believe the ads claim "UP TO" 90%... which means in the most extreme case. I don't think anyone at Bullfrog has ever claimed that it's 90% less than every tub made. This is marketing 101 stuff that is done by nearly every company in every industry. They put their best foot forward against the worst of their competition. But if that's the drum/dead horse you want to beat, then I guess that's your thing. But the fact is, that the BF design does result in less plumbing than any other design, and especially less plumbing where leaks present a real problem. For a consumer like me, who has spent way too much time digging through foam fixing leaks, this is a big deal to me. It doesn't guarantee no leaks, but it does minimize risk and that's a big plus to me. And for your "maybe it moves less water"... I suppose in a bad design it could restrict flow, but that's not the case here and you know it.
You give lots of good info for users here and I appreciate and respect your input here. As a result, I think your comments tend to hold a bit more weight than most users here. It just seems that you have a bone to pick with Bullfrog and make sure to plant seeds of doubt where ever you can. I know BF isn't going to be everyone's top choice, especially if someone's local BF dealer isn't so great... But it seems you're trying to scare people away from them due to your misinterpretation of a sales brochure. But at the end of the day, I agree with you in that the wet test should be the final measure. I'd just hate to see someone not even give the BF a chance due to something they read on the internet.
I still have some of the Bullfrog Kool-Aid... maybe you should try some with vodka. It's not bad :D
-
I think the point is there is less holes drilled in the shell on a BF compared to others. Other spas drill the holes in the shell for the various jets vs BF, the jetpak has the holes for the jets and not the shell. So the "plumbing" is in the inside of the spa shell and not the outside. If you want to count what's in the jetpak go ahead. Of course there are still holes drilled in the shell for a BF but it is less than others.
A Marquis Euphoria has 58 jets not 40.
-
But it seems you're trying to scare people away from them due to your misinterpretation of a sales brochure. But at the end of the day, I agree with you in that the wet test should be the final measure. I'd just hate to see someone not even give the BF a chance due to something they read on the internet.
Ummmmmmm wait........isn't that what an advertised sales brochure from BF does? It's OK for them to do it but not me? I'd hate to see someone not give any other brands a try because of that sales BS.
I'm not sure how drilling the right amount of holes in the shell for the proper hydrotherapy feel means anything but hey......
-
Sorry to go radio silence on here. It was a busy weekend. First, I wet tested the hot tubs and then I started running numbers and scouring Craigslist.
I made an offer on a 2013 Sundance Cameo 880 that I could see up and running and came to a fantastic arrangement with the seller on price and extras. I'm just waiting on the movers now and then it's permit time followed by installation and electrical.
I still appreciate all the input about Bullfrogs. Now that we'll be wired and set up for a tub, it would make getting a new one quite a bit more affordable, if that makes any sense. It's amazing how all the prices add up not just in the store but with the foundation, electrical, and permits.
-
That's a powerful tub and quiet. You will like it.
Need any trouble shooting help let us know. Parts are easily accessible.
I hope everyone understands that I am not trying to blow holes in BF. I have said it before, they make a fine tub. But if the design was that good you could count on copying, and don't give me the "it's patented" thing. If patents could stop other similar designs in products we wouldn't have choices in any products. It wouldn't matter what brand it was. If you sling shit here you get called on it, plain and simple. There are other dealers and owners here who slung it long before any of you BF dealers/owners did with other brands. They got the same from me and several others members here. People come here to get un-biased information. Not the same stuff and same brochures they heard/saw at the dealer. This is my board dammit!!! No really I have been warned here before by the moderator team because of some vigorous discussions for a lot of years. I called it constructive conflict, they called it mean. We all learn. I'm honored that I am respected here. But I am falling behind. The industry is getting out of site as I zero in on retirement. Sighhhhhhhh..........But I will always recognize BS. I'm crabby cause I don't have a tub right now.
-
Maybe you missed the heated post from me against some certain HS sales people in the past one of which sells Bullfrog now?
The thing with Bullfrog is and I sold against them for a long time and they were easily destroyed in the sales presentation. With the changes and improvements they have done, and granted you wouldn't know this other than the increased amount of Bullfrog traffic here. They have exploded in to the market place in the last two years. I talked with our rep on Friday and he set up 8 dealers in the last month or so. Many of which were long time Jacuzzi/Sundance dealers. They are taking floor space and selling spa's and it's not because of the " up to 90%" less plumbing pitch. They are an easy spa to sell and people do like the features and customization they offer. They are not louder than any other spa, there warranty is on par if not better than many, and so far their customer service is batting a thousand with me and any issue that has come up. Far better than Jacuzzi had been in the last about 4 years with whom we sold spas with for 15 years. They were not happy with us bringing Bullfrog on in the slightest, and my previous comments in this post reflect that. Jerry Paisley (Ex President of Jacuzzi and Sundance spas) Has done a very good job of bringing Bullfrog to the front of the line.
-
Sorry to go radio silence on here. It was a busy weekend. First, I wet tested the hot tubs and then I started running numbers and scouring Craigslist.
I made an offer on a 2013 Sundance Cameo 880 that I could see up and running and came to a fantastic arrangement with the seller on price and extras. I'm just waiting on the movers now and then it's permit time followed by installation and electrical.
I still appreciate all the input about Bullfrogs. Now that we'll be wired and set up for a tub, it would make getting a new one quite a bit more affordable, if that makes any sense. It's amazing how all the prices add up not just in the store but with the foundation, electrical, and permits.
Glad to hear you made a decision...and yet buying a hot tub is like buying a home, you need to budget to all the extra fees to get the deal done.
Enjoy your tub!
-
I hope everyone understands that I am not trying to blow holes in BF. I have said it before, they make a fine tub. But if the design was that good you could count on copying,
I believe the jetpak design is patented which means no one can copy them without a lawsuit. Once the patent runs out (14 years from patent date) then anyone can make a similar design without risk of a lawsuit. That's probably when you'll see others copying the jetpak idea which I think is a good one. One of my biggest beefs with hot tubs is that you get what you get. With Bullfrog you can get what you want (within the limits of the jetpak choices).
I'm crabby cause I don't have a tub right now.
That I understand completely. We've been without a tub for a while and we really miss it...
:(
-
Tman has always had a weird thing with Bullfrog. In the end, they have significantly less plumbing than a comparable spa. They have less holes drilled in the shell. They allow you to decide what jets you want and in what seat to put them. You can change them whenever you want. When they come out with a new pack, you can upgrade your old hot tub. JetPaks are patented and you cannot copy them.
This is all verifiable fact and not sales BS.
-
I guess its all a matter of opinion. There are many valid points made in favor of and against Bullfrog. It seems that there will not be a consensus on the matter at hand. I hope we can all move forward now and let this thread cool off for a while and get back to answering questions vs campaigning.
-
I'll refrain after all.
-
I guess I got the "there patented" speech anyway......anyone wana bet? Talk to a patent lawyer. You would be surprised how little difference you need to go around patent laws. And the next guy will patent them as better, and the next, and the next. But that's not going to happen.
-
My take on bullfrog. 5 years ago I thought they were terrible. I just saw them and went through as best I could at the Vegas show about 5 months ago. They are a lot sharper looking and much better marketed now. They fixed the problem of the slime buildup by drilling some holes for circulation around the jet packs. I was impressed by them. Seems like in my area it's all jacuzzi guys selling them now which makes sense because I know a ton of old jacuzzi reps work there now. I don't necessarily think they are better then Watkins brands, Marquis or jacuzzi/sundance but I think they have a neat story and are very well made. I'd put them right there with those guys and would by one of those before a jacuzzi/sundance as the quality control on those tubs aren't what they used to be. I also like competing with them because there dealers seem to get good margins unlike some of my other competitors
-
Tman has always had a weird thing with Bullfrog. In the end, they have significantly less plumbing than a comparable spa. They have less holes drilled in the shell. They allow you to decide what jets you want and in what seat to put them. You can change them whenever you want. When they come out with a new pack, you can upgrade your old hot tub. JetPaks are patented and you cannot copy them.
This is all verifiable fact and not sales BS.
I thought patents only lasted 7 years?
-
I thought patents only lasted 7 years?
US Patents are typically good for 20 years depending on the type of patent. For design patents it was 14 years until recently where it was changed to 15 years. This is from the date of first application, not the date the patent is filed. So assuming 20 years for the Jetpak filed in 2007 (patent 8,661,576), it's protected until 2027. After that, if no term extension is given the patent goes into public domain and anyone can make copies.
-
The thing with patents is what it is. Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS. No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog. Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it. Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?
I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of?
-
The thing with patents is what it is. Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS. No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog. Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it. Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?
I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of?
pretty much everything is copycatted at some point...the only things that really aren't seem to be things that would require a complete new mold to be built (ie no-bypass or similar system that requires a very large filter compartment) anything that is a "component" will eventually be copied, ie Remote Controls, Salt Systems, Stereos, WiFi Apps, Jet Designs, etc....Also I rarely even hear the name Artic but isn't their insulation "system" similar to Maax?
-
The thing with patents is what it is. Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS. No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog. Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it. Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?
I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of?
pretty much everything is copycatted at some point...the only things that really aren't seem to be things that would require a complete new mold to be built (ie no-bypass or similar system that requires a very large filter compartment) anything that is a "component" will eventually be copied, ie Remote Controls, Salt Systems, Stereos, WiFi Apps, Jet Designs, etc....Also I rarely even hear the name Artic but isn't their insulation "system" similar to Maax?
More similar to Clearwater I believe
-
The thing with patents is what it is. Nobody that I know of has done a no by-pass filtration system other than HS. No one has done the exterior equipment pac other than Beach Comber. And no one has done the jet pac system other than Bullfrog. Arctic does their insulation system and I don't think anyone has really copied it. Patent or not maybe some just do not want to be labeled a copy cat for a better lack of terms?
I am sure there are other examples, any of you guys that have been in the industry can think of?
pretty much everything is copycatted at some point...the only things that really aren't seem to be things that would require a complete new mold to be built (ie no-bypass or similar system that requires a very large filter compartment) anything that is a "component" will eventually be copied, ie Remote Controls, Salt Systems, Stereos, WiFi Apps, Jet Designs, etc....Also I rarely even hear the name Artic but isn't their insulation "system" similar to Maax?
Arctic uses spray foam on the inside of the cabinet walls. Great concept if spray foam on the shell/plumbing scares you. Their claim of heating without a heater is false. Put's your pumps and electronics in a heated and even super heated environment in summer, which effects longevity. So venting is required for cooling and to prevent heat creep. But more important their molds seemed confining to me.
Maxx uses a sloppy rendition. No need for venting because there are gaps and openings everywhere.
-
Arctic uses spray foam on the inside of the cabinet walls.
The Arctic tub we had used hard foam insulation panels lining the cabinet and base with heat reflective aluminum coating. Several brands do the same thing.
Their claim of heating without a heater is false. Put's your pumps and electronics in a heated and even super heated environment in summer, which effects longevity. So venting is required for cooling and to prevent heat creep.
I believe their claim of heating without a heater referred to hot climate areas where the pumps could generate enough heat to help maintain water temp without the heater being used much. The wording is key...they didn't claim you don't need a heater, only that the tub could maintain temp without the heater coming on when the jet pumps were running on a hot day. Obviously in cold climates like winter in the northern States and Canada, this doesn't fly at all. But during the summer at 90'F days I know the heater didn't kick in much.
But more important their molds seemed confining to me.
Everyone is different and so are tubs. ;D
And sometimes peoples' experiences affect future buying decisions. This time round it won't be an Arctic tub simply because they don't offer one that suits our needs. Same goes for Hydropool, Beachcomber, and several others we crossed off the list as they didn't offer what we want. Nothing wrong with the tubs, just features/design didn't suit.
-
I believe their claim of heating without a heater referred to hot climate areas where the pumps could generate enough heat to help maintain water temp without the heater being used much. The wording is key...they didn't claim you don't need a heater, only that the tub could maintain temp without the heater coming on when the jet pumps were running on a hot day. Obviously in cold climates like winter in the northern States and Canada, this doesn't fly at all. But during the summer at 90'F days I know the heater didn't kick in much.
There was no mention of the 20 hours per day filtering isn't required. If it's cold outside the heater will work just as much during the 20 hours (majority) of non filtration time everyday. To me the sales BS read as if the heater wouldn't be needed because the warmth generated from the jet pump during filtration would be sufficient to heat the water. That's how it was pushed here on this board. I called BS on it.
-
I have a Bullfrog R6 on order. Should be ready for it in the next few weeks. This will be my first spa. I wet tested and did research. These spas clearly have less plumbing than traditional designs and have fewer hull penetrations. Looking forward to my new spa.
FL Person
-
I have a Bullfrog R6 on order. Should be ready for it in the next few weeks. This will be my first spa. I wet tested and did research. These spas clearly have less plumbing than traditional designs and have fewer hull penetrations. Looking forward to my new spa.
FL Person
Welcome to spatopia.......
-
Well, I bought a used Sundance instead of a new Bullfrog (for details, check out the "Pics of My New Hot Tub" section of the forum).
-
This is probably a little late for a reply, but..... I LOVE my bullfrog spa. It's predecessor was one of the major names mentioned above that had constant little leaks and cost a fortune to heat (and I live in a fairly mild climate). My Bullfrog is probably ten years or so old, I think it's a model 451 (4 jetpacks, 5 total seats, one pump). I will admit I had to replace the circuit board a couple years ago but that has been it for repairs. Plus the parts guy walked me through the troubleshooting and replacing the part only took me a few minutes. What do I love. It is efficient, sure, but I love the jetpacks. I can pick the ones I want and I can move them from location to location. I also really like how the plumbing is designed. Far fewer opportunities for leaks and the plumbing is fairly accessible if a leak does occur (which hasn't happened). What would I do different if I were buying a new one. I'd buy a unit with two pumps. Mine only has one and will not run everything at full strength at one time. Since their are usually only one or two in the tub at a time I just turn off the nozzles on the jetpacks we aren't using, so I have a workaround, but a second pump would be great.
-
I have an A7, just over a year old. Mechanically its been good, but against my better judgement we got the stereo system. In just over a year and half of owning the A7, I have had all the speakers replaced and 1/2 are broke again.
Some are louder than others, one is blown and crackling. I just had the service department here last week to fix one and now 2 others are broke.
I plan on contacting Bullfrog directly, this is defect issue. Unless there are others out there experiencing similar issues.
-
I have an A7, just over a year old. Mechanically its been good, but against my better judgement we got the stereo system. In just over a year and half of owning the A7, I have had all the speakers replaced and 1/2 are broke again.
Some are louder than others, one is blown and crackling. I just had the service department here last week to fix one and now 2 others are broke.
I plan on contacting Bullfrog directly, this is defect issue. Unless there are others out there experiencing similar issues.
Usually the first thing to go on a hot tub is the stereo. Speakers and water don't mix well together. Are they still under warranty?
-
What do I love. It is efficient, sure, but I love the jetpacks. I can pick the ones I want and I can move them from location to location. I also really like how the plumbing is designed. Far fewer opportunities for leaks and the plumbing is fairly accessible if a leak does occur (which hasn't happened). What would I do different if I were buying a new one. I'd buy a unit with two pumps. Mine only has one and will not run everything at full strength at one time. Since their are usually only one or two in the tub at a time I just turn off the nozzles on the jetpacks we aren't using, so I have a workaround, but a second pump would be great.
I agree with the above. Having never owned a spa before this one, I did a lot of reading and specifically opted not to get a lounger model based on feedback from this forum. While it is nice to be able to move the jetpaks, I find that I simply rotate through the various seats to use the three jetpaks in my R6. If it were a lounger model, I'd probably feel compelled to constantly move the jetpaks to the lounger position.
And I've already emailed Bullfrog stating my disappointment with the pressure, or lack thereof, in the R6 with the single 2.5 hp pump. When in the tub by myself - which is more often than not - I always keep the two jetpaks I'm not using turned off, as well as several of the non-jetpaks jets, in order to keep decent pressure in the jetpak I'm using. There is a noticeable loss of pressure (and enjoyment) when more than one jetpak is operational at a time.
Bullfrog responded (two weeks later) by effectively saying - "sorry, that's just the way it is."
FL Person
-
I contacted bullfrog directly because they broke twice before the year warranty was up. They said they had made an upgrade to the speakers and were going to replace all of them. I was told the new ones would come with a year warranty. Has been about 6 months and 1/2 are broke again.
So we will see what happens next. Hope they stand by their product, I will keep the board posted, so people thinking about buying are informed of how Bullfrog handles equipment problems.
-
I always recommend avoiding the stereo in any hot tub. I've never seen a brand that got it right.
-
I wanted to post a current opinion on Bullfrog Spas. We just received our A8 last week and are very happy. We wet tested several of the top competitors (Jacuzzi, Master, etc) and read more reviews than we could digest (i.e Hot Tub University will have you questioning everything). Ultimately, my husband felt the massage capabilities on the Bullfrog Jetpacks were much nicer. We sacrificed a few more leg jets and comfy seating (in other brands) for a more spacious tub that offered a good therapeutic massage. The structure and interior components all looked quite good upon arrival and it was really just the new smell on the head pillows that bothered us. Some pros: All jets can be run at once, it's quiet, water filtration seems great so far (water doesn't smell). We've also custom switched the packs around to get the right massage on each seat. We got the neckblaster, pulsator, versa, wellness, rainwater, and oscillator and love them all. I'd like to post again after a few months of use but as of now, we are quite satisfied in choosing a Bullfrog.
-
I wanted to post a current opinion on Bullfrog Spas. We just received our A8 last week and are very happy. We wet tested several of the top competitors (Jacuzzi, Master, etc) and read more reviews than we could digest (i.e Hot Tub University will have you questioning everything). Ultimately, my husband felt the massage capabilities on the Bullfrog Jetpacks were much nicer. We sacrificed a few more leg jets and comfy seating (in other brands) for a more spacious tub that offered a good therapeutic massage. The structure and interior components all looked quite good upon arrival and it was really just the new smell on the head pillows that bothered us. Some pros: All jets can be run at once, it's quiet, water filtration seems great so far (water doesn't smell). We've also custom switched the packs around to get the right massage on each seat. We got the neckblaster, pulsator, versa, wellness, rainwater, and oscillator and love them all. I'd like to post again after a few months of use but as of now, we are quite satisfied in choosing a Bullfrog.
You do realize the hot tub university is nothing more than a Master Spa sales gimmic?
-
I wanted to post a current opinion on Bullfrog Spas. We just received our A8 last week and are very happy. We wet tested several of the top competitors (Jacuzzi, Master, etc) and read more reviews than we could digest (i.e Hot Tub University will have you questioning everything). Ultimately, my husband felt the massage capabilities on the Bullfrog Jetpacks were much nicer. We sacrificed a few more leg jets and comfy seating (in other brands) for a more spacious tub that offered a good therapeutic massage. The structure and interior components all looked quite good upon arrival and it was really just the new smell on the head pillows that bothered us. Some pros: All jets can be run at once, it's quiet, water filtration seems great so far (water doesn't smell). We've also custom switched the packs around to get the right massage on each seat. We got the neckblaster, pulsator, versa, wellness, rainwater, and oscillator and love them all. I'd like to post again after a few months of use but as of now, we are quite satisfied in choosing a Bullfrog.
You do realize the hot tub university is nothing more than a Master Spa sales gimmic?
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
-
I wanted to post a current opinion on Bullfrog Spas. We just received our A8 last week and are very happy. We wet tested several of the top competitors (Jacuzzi, Master, etc) and read more reviews than we could digest (i.e Hot Tub University will have you questioning everything). Ultimately, my husband felt the massage capabilities on the Bullfrog Jetpacks were much nicer. We sacrificed a few more leg jets and comfy seating (in other brands) for a more spacious tub that offered a good therapeutic massage. The structure and interior components all looked quite good upon arrival and it was really just the new smell on the head pillows that bothered us. Some pros: All jets can be run at once, it's quiet, water filtration seems great so far (water doesn't smell). We've also custom switched the packs around to get the right massage on each seat. We got the neckblaster, pulsator, versa, wellness, rainwater, and oscillator and love them all. I'd like to post again after a few months of use but as of now, we are quite satisfied in choosing a Bullfrog.
You do realize the hot tub university is nothing more than a Master Spa sales gimmic?
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
Correct...….But only if you pay him. Good for him he gets to make some money off running that site and manufacturers pay him to endorse there products. Pretty much like every other review site on the internet
-
I wanted to post a current opinion on Bullfrog Spas. We just received our A8 last week and are very happy. We wet tested several of the top competitors (Jacuzzi, Master, etc) and read more reviews than we could digest (i.e Hot Tub University will have you questioning everything). Ultimately, my husband felt the massage capabilities on the Bullfrog Jetpacks were much nicer. We sacrificed a few more leg jets and comfy seating (in other brands) for a more spacious tub that offered a good therapeutic massage. The structure and interior components all looked quite good upon arrival and it was really just the new smell on the head pillows that bothered us. Some pros: All jets can be run at once, it's quiet, water filtration seems great so far (water doesn't smell). We've also custom switched the packs around to get the right massage on each seat. We got the neckblaster, pulsator, versa, wellness, rainwater, and oscillator and love them all. I'd like to post again after a few months of use but as of now, we are quite satisfied in choosing a Bullfrog.
You do realize the hot tub university is nothing more than a Master Spa sales gimmic?
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
Correct...….But only if you pay him. Good for him he gets to make some money off running that site and manufacturers pay him to endorse there products. Pretty much like every other review site on the internet
His top (2) brands in all of the industry based on his reviews are Master and PDC :-X :-X :-X enough said
-
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
Makes this shill seem legit doesn't it? Fools a lot of people, including some here.
-
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
Makes this shill seem legit doesn't it? Fools a lot of people, including some here.
It never ends. There's just no dealing with the Master haters. They will go to any length to trash the brand and those who endorse it. It's uncanny.
-
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
Makes this shill seem legit doesn't it? Fools a lot of people, including some here.
It never ends. There's just no dealing with the Master haters. They will go to any length to trash the brand and those who endorse it. It's uncanny.
You say hater, we say others are far greater!
Tomayto/tomahto, potayto/potahto lets call the whole post off!
-
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
Makes this shill seem legit doesn't it? Fools a lot of people, including some here.
It never ends. There's just no dealing with the Master haters. They will go to any length to trash the brand and those who endorse it. It's uncanny.
Well, Master has deceived thousands and thousands of people for lots and lots of years. They have a ton of work to do and they haven't even started.
A mediocre tub that makes itself a terrible tub because of their SOP's, deceptive practices and sales BS.
-
You do realize that HTU endorses several brands other than Master?
Makes this shill seem legit doesn't it? Fools a lot of people, including some here.
It never ends. There's just no dealing with the Master haters. They will go to any length to trash the brand and those who endorse it. It's uncanny.
Well, Master has deceived thousands and thousands of people for lots and lots of years. They have a ton of work to do and they haven't even started.
A mediocre tub that makes itself a terrible tub because of their SOP's, deceptive practices and sales BS.
Like I said, no dealing with it. Just relentless on the hating. Never ends. Useless trying. Can only laugh at it now.
And at the same time love my TS8.25 with the awesome jetting.
-
Like I said, no dealing with it. Just relentless on the hating. Never ends. Useless trying. Can only laugh at it now.
And at the same time love my TS8.25 with the awesome jetting.
To each his own. Just don't jam it down my throat. Same with hot tub university.
You have a few good years left in yours, enjoy them.
-
I have my MS LSX 900 coming October 15th. I'll let you know how it is.
-
I have my MS LSX 900 coming October 15th. I'll let you know how it is.
Master has tons of power (the ones I've seen and owned)
-
If you like jet power you are going to love that LSX.