Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: dishdude on May 26, 2015, 01:53:27 pm
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What exactly does this system do? I thought it generated chlorine from the salt in the water with the assistance of the system, but so far everytime I test the water the chlorine is low and I need to add some. The tub is a week old, and PH has been on the high side but I keep adding PH reducer a little at a time. Salt level is good, and ACE says it is functioning properly and set to level 5.
Am I missing something?
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What exactly does this system do? I thought it generated chlorine from the salt in the water with the assistance of the system, but so far everytime I test the water the chlorine is low and I need to add some. The tub is a week old, and PH has been on the high side but I keep adding PH reducer a little at a time. Salt level is good, and ACE says it is functioning properly and set to level 5.
Am I missing something?
That is what it is suppossed to do. You also need to add cyanuric acid to the tub which will help hold the chlorine in for longer periods of time
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cyanuric acid? Is that PH reducer?
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What are you using to test for chlorine? The system isn't supposed to make chlorine right away, first it cleans the water, then it makes chlorine. The levels of chlorine should be low. That is an oversimplification, but that is basically what the lady from Hot Springs said when the local dealer had a factory rep in to help people understand their ACE systems.
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low chlorine is a good thing...ideally I have most customers setup their ACE System so they are producing around a 1-3 ppm level of chlorine, obviously the exact ppm number will fluctuate but the "lower" side of the spectrum is not a bad thing, nobody wants to soak at "public pool levels" in their own spa
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If you don't use any Cyanuric Acid (CYA) aka stabilizer or conditioner in the water, then the active chlorine level will be much too high. Free Chlorine (FC) does NOT tell you the active chlorine level that oxidizes swimsuits, skin, and hair as well as bather waste, hot tub covers, and disinfects. With CYA in the water, it significantly moderates chlorine's strength. I suggest a level of around 30-40 ppm CYA. You can add it via pure CYA that dissolves slowly or you can use Dichlor in the spa for a while since for every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor it also increases CYA by 9 ppm. With Dichlor, don't add it all at once (i.e. not 30-40 ppm) since the chlorine level would then be too high.
The ACE system outputs both chlorine similar to a saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG) but also outputs very short-lived and powerful oxidizers called hydroxyl radicals. The salt level is lower than in a normal SWCG spa (say one that uses the ControlOMatic Technichlor (http://www.controlomatic.com/technichlor.html) which uses 2000 ppm) and the Calcium Hardness (CH) level must be very low because the special boron-doped diamond electrodes used in the system are very sensitive to developing calcium carbonate scale.
As for the chlorine level itself, you should be fine so long as it is at a measurable level, 1 ppm FC or so should be OK, though with the CYA in the water even higher levels won't be that noticeable, but most people prefer soaking in not more than 2 ppm FC so that they don't notice the chlorine or chloramine smell.
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If you don't use any Cyanuric Acid (CYA) aka stabilizer or conditioner in the water, then the active chlorine level will be much too high. Free Chlorine (FC) does NOT tell you the active chlorine level that oxidizes swimsuits, skin, and hair as well as bather waste, hot tub covers, and disinfects. With CYA in the water, it significantly moderates chlorine's strength. I suggest a level of around 30-40 ppm CYA. You can add it via pure CYA that dissolves slowly or you can use Dichlor in the spa for a while since for every 10 ppm FC added by Dichlor it also increases CYA by 9 ppm. With Dichlor, don't add it all at once (i.e. not 30-40 ppm) since the chlorine level would then be too high.
The ACE system outputs both chlorine similar to a saltwater chlorine generator (SWCG) but also outputs very short-lived and powerful oxidizers called hydroxyl radicals. The salt level is lower than in a normal SWCG spa (say one that uses the ControlOMatic Technichlor (http://www.controlomatic.com/technichlor.html) which uses 2000 ppm) and the Calcium Hardness (CH) level must be very low because the special boron-doped diamond electrodes used in the system are very sensitive to developing calcium carbonate scale.
As for the chlorine level itself, you should be fine so long as it is at a measurable level, 1 ppm FC or so should be OK, though with the CYA in the water even higher levels won't be that noticeable, but most people prefer soaking in not more than 2 ppm FC so that they don't notice the chlorine or chloramine smell.
Just curious, you seem extremely knowledgeable about water care but also the exact workings of Ace. Do you have an Ace system?
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Well now I'm really confused. I've been using the Hot Spring 5 way test strips to test the water, and adding PH- to get it down into the 7's and adding Hot Spring chlorinated granules to keep the chlorine in the 3-5 range.
I didn't get any stabilizer with the starter kit and the ACE documentation I got makes no mention of it :(
This is what I have used so far -
(http://i372.photobucket.com/albums/oo167/dishdude1/20150528_193930_HDR_zpsluy9ldbj.jpg) (http://s372.photobucket.com/user/dishdude1/media/20150528_193930_HDR_zpsluy9ldbj.jpg.html)
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Well I am sure glad that ACE system cuts down on having to use any chemicals..
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Well I am sure glad that ACE system cuts down on having to use any chemicals..
+1 - Now that's funny!
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He's doing it wrong. I've added salt and spa down. Nothing more. Sounds like system startup wasn't properly explained by his dealer.
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Well that's what I added, salt and PH down. The chlorine was low so I added some and turned up the ACE level - new toy so it's been getting a lot of use.
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Well I am sure glad that ACE system cuts down on having to use any chemicals..
pH reducer and salt is all my customers use to startup their spa.
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Well I am sure glad that ACE system cuts down on having to use any chemicals..
pH reducer and salt is all my customers use to startup their spa.
Ph increaser and bromine is all my customers use to startup their spa. I think that I'll start telling them that it is a special system that only costs $1,500 and every one to two years they need to pay me $800 for my special bromine floater with diamonds. They will also need to purchase $75 pillows and clean the bromine floater. It will be way better than the old school traditional methods of treating hot tub water :o
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Btw, that post was totally tongue in cheek and not meant to be a dig at you Twincities. You seem like one of the good ones. Just having fun.
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Btw, that post was totally tongue in cheek and not meant to be a dig at you Twincities. You seem like one of the good ones. Just having fun.
Plus one!
Our kits contain 1 Jacuzzi proclear mineral cartridge, 1 btl of Leisure time replenish only 15% chlorine mixed with monopersulfate, spa defender, spa up or spa down depending where they live. Bout it..
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You haven't mentioned water hardness - it needs to be low.
If your test strip is one color block above the 'ok' range, add two dry ounces (1/4 cup) of pH reducer. If it is way up the scale, add three ounces, test again in five to eight hours, and add another three if it is still way up the scale. You need to get that pH down quickly - and keep it down if it is creeping back up.
You may have something going in the tub which raises the pH - I had to take my kids back and exchange them four times before we finally stopped getting "pH creep." Now we are working on my brother-in-law.
HTH
8)
(PS- that last part was tongue-in-cheek)
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You haven't mentioned water hardness - it needs to be low.
If your test strip is one color block above the 'ok' range, add two dry ounces (1/4 cup) of pH reducer. If it is way up the scale, add three ounces, test again in five to eight hours, and add another three if it is still way up the scale. You need to get that pH down quickly - and keep it down if it is creeping back up.
You may have something going in the tub which raises the pH - I had to take my kids back and exchange them four times before we finally stopped getting "pH creep." Now we are working on my brother-in-law.
HTH
8)
(PS- that last part was tongue-in-cheek)
haha Thanks. Hardness is good, I guess I just haven't been adding enough PH- (I was afraid of adding too much so I was just adding a teaspoon at a time) and the ACE setting was set too low for all the use it's been getting. Adjusting that up took care of the chlorine level. So I think it's all good now.
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Btw, that post was totally tongue in cheek and not meant to be a dig at you Twincities. You seem like one of the good ones. Just having fun.
its all good brother, we all have our various "unique" products and have to market them appropriately...its just business. The funny thing is, (this may sound twisted but its true) but the more "bashing" competitors do against the ACE is actually better for me from a sales standpoint as far as in-store leads are concerned.
Customer: Gee Eric I left your store, went down the street to shop Jacuzzi and I mentioned I was looking at a Grandee model with ACE and all the sales person did was tell me everything was going to corrode, it was expensive, it doesn't work, etc etc etc.
Me: Sir, How did it make you feel when you walked into a Jacuzzi store to learn about the Jacuzzi product and all you were told was how bad the competition is?
Customer: "a little weird actually" <----9 times out of 10 this is exactly what I hear
Me: So you spent 45 minutes at Jacuzzi, what did you learn?
Customer: ummmmm, ummmmmm, uummmmm something about a 50/50 mixture or something?
Me thinking to myself: Excelllllent, would you like to hear the truths behind some of the things you were told as "truth" and how it will help me choose the perfect spa for you and your family?
30min. - 1 hour later.......check = written
so ya, bash alll day long boys and keep sending them my way after you do 8)
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Sounds like that Jacuzzi salesman isn't a very good salesman. Your lucky I don't work down the street from you :P ;D
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its all good brother, we all have our various "unique" products and have to market them appropriately...its just business. The funny thing is, (this may sound twisted but its true) but the more "bashing" competitors do against the ACE is actually better for me from a sales standpoint as far as in-store leads are concerned.
Customer: Gee Eric I left your store, went down the street to shop Jacuzzi and I mentioned I was looking at a Grandee model with ACE and all the sales person did was tell me everything was going to corrode, it was expensive, it doesn't work, etc etc etc.
Me: Sir, How did it make you feel when you walked into a Jacuzzi store to learn about the Jacuzzi product and all you were told was how bad the competition is?
Customer: "a little weird actually" <----9 times out of 10 this is exactly what I hear
Me: So you spent 45 minutes at Jacuzzi, what did you learn?
Customer: ummmmm, ummmmmm, uummmmm something about a 50/50 mixture or something?
Me thinking to myself: Excelllllent, would you like to hear the truths behind some of the things you were told as "truth" and how it will help me choose the perfect spa for you and your family?
30min. - 1 hour later.......check = written
so ya, bash alll day long boys and keep sending them my way after you do 8)
Funny, that's exactly what the Jacuzzi/Sundance dealer was like. After visiting that place, there was no way I was buying a thing from them.
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Yeah, there are a lot of clueless sales guys in our industry. I'm glad though ;D Being friendly, knowing your product, and focusing on the positives of your product will get you a lot more sales than trying to bash the competition. Even if someone asks me about Cal Spas, I avoid being negative. I will, however, tell them to search for reviews on any hot tub they are interested in. If they still buy a Cal, well that's on them lol.