Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Ralith on March 16, 2019, 01:40:56 pm
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Just finishing building our deck and looking at hot tubs. Just my wife and young son so far, but planning to have friends/ family over to use it as well. We're both big people, 6' for me, 5'7" wife so definitely want 36-38 depth. We have a Hot Springs, Marquis and jacuzzi local dealers. Been looking into dealers and so far the HS one seems best.
Gonna be wet testing HS Limelight prism and Highlife grandee Monday. Need to talk with marquis dealer more to get prices. Thinking about the Pulse or Prism (unfortunately no pulse available for wet testing). Dealer gave me a price of $11,600 plus $350 for ACE salt system for Pulse so far. I know HS is offering the 0% APR for 60 months next couple weeks... wasn't sure I'd that's a good deal or not.
Any recommendations or input welcome!
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Just found we have a Master Spa seller. They don't say what brand they sell online, but when I went to Master Spa's website it has them selling, so I'll have to check into them.
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Good price on the Pulse. I’m at $12,499 + $399 for Freshwater Salt. Having sat in both the Prism and Pulse, I prefer the Pulse, but YMMV. Marquis and Jacuzzi are both quality brands ( I also sell Marquis). I would be less concerned with the depth of the hot tub, it can be irrelevant to how deep you sit. Had a customer in store today who was 6’7” and he fit better in the Aria which is 36” deep versus the Envoy which is 38”.
I would personally pass on Master Spa. IMHO they make an average quality product and their reputation is average at best. You already have 3 premium options available and I think you would be better served with any of those vs a Master Spa.
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Thanks! I think we'd like the Prism's size, but price is a bit much since it would usually be 2-4. What's tough prince for prism? I think he said $15-16k for it. We will know more Monday!
Good price on the Pulse. I’m at $12,499 + $399 for Freshwater Salt. Having sat in both the Prism and Pulse, I prefer the Pulse, but YMMV. Marquis and Jacuzzi are both quality brands ( I also sell Marquis). I would be less concerned with the depth of the hot tub, it can be irrelevant to how deep you sit. Had a customer in store today who was 6’7” and he fit better in the Aria which is 36” deep versus the Envoy which is 38”.
I would personally pass on Master Spa. IMHO they make an average quality product and their reputation is average at best. You already have 3 premium options available and I think you would be better served with any of those vs a Master Spa.
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If the Prism is a 2019, I would expect $15k-$16k. I’m priced at $15,999 without salt. If it was a 2018 model, maybe as low at $13.5k-$14k.
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I’m not an expert on Tubs but the three you mentioned I feel are all top tier products. We have had a Caldera Tub made by Watkins who also makes Hot Springs for the last 5 years and love it.
Keep in mind the tub and water is about 6000 pounds and then add in the people and furniture on the deck plus the weight of the deck itself. also a tub is about 800 pounds empty and it has to be moved from the road and onto your deck. Plan your tubs location and orientation on the deck when you are testing them and looking at them. What direction the cover lifter will be opening and how much room that takes away from the deck space when open. Then you want the equipment area to have access to get in and work on it if needed. Then plan where your steps will be and what surface you will step down on when getting in and out. We have a higher cool down seat and it is flat and perfect to step on, plus it is the seat not commonly used so you don’t have to all move for someone to get in or out. Lastly plan your views. It is nice when in the main seats to look out at the best view.
As to depth some seats are much lower and some seats you will find you sit in different ways. The seat I love best I barely sit on the seat surface and use it more like it was a recliner when the jets are on the water force holds you up.
Enjoy and get what suits you best you will have it for many years. :)
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Are they quoting you for ACE or the new Freshwater Salt system?
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Thanks!
Our deck is 16x52, parallels our house. We plan to put tub at far end. It's most secluded and like 5' from exterior electrical panel. We will plan tub direction more once we do wet test and with 16' wide deck should have plenty of room... planning to put cover lifter towards house so it won't block views.
I’m not an expert on Tubs but the three you mentioned I feel are all top tier products. We have had a Caldera Tub made by Watkins who also makes Hot Springs for the last 5 years and love it.
Keep in mind the tub and water is about 6000 pounds and then add in the people and furniture on the deck plus the weight of the deck itself. also a tub is about 800 pounds empty and it has to be moved from the road and onto your deck. Plan your tubs location and orientation on the deck when you are testing them and looking at them. What direction the cover lifter will be opening and how much room that takes away from the deck space when open. Then you want the equipment area to have access to get in and work on it if needed. Then plan where your steps will be and what surface you will step down on when getting in and out. We have a higher cool down seat and it is flat and perfect to step on, plus it is the seat not commonly used so you don’t have to all move for someone to get in or out. Lastly plan your views. It is nice when in the main seats to look out at the best view.
As to depth some seats are much lower and some seats you will find you sit in different ways. The seat I love best I barely sit on the seat surface and use it more like it was a recliner when the jets are on the water force holds you up.
Enjoy and get what suits you best you will have it for many years. :)
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I think these are new 2019s...and brocher says ACE salt water system. What's the difference? Looks like there is the ACE salt water system or Everfresh system.
The freshwater Corona discharge ozone system is standard on all models to my knowledge, so not sure which you're referring to.
Are they quoting you for ACE or the new Freshwater Salt system?
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You might also think about cover orientation as it can be used as a wind blocker! I know you said you don't want to block views and I understand that...Just something to think about!
I agree with castletonia...I would avoid master spa.
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I think these are new 2019s...and brocher says ACE salt water system. What's the difference? Looks like there is the ACE salt water system or Everfresh system.
The freshwater Corona discharge ozone system is standard on all models to my knowledge, so not sure which you're referring to.
Are they quoting you for ACE or the new Freshwater Salt system?
The 2019 brochures have not been made yet which is why the brochure refers to ACE. The website is updated to reflect the new Freshwater Salt System. The Freshwater Ozone is now optional on all 2019 models (it doesn't play well with salt).
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Just found we have a Master Spa seller. They don't say what brand they sell online, but when I went to Master Spa's website it has them selling, so I'll have to check into them.
I have a Master Spa TS8.25 and I love it. Been in service for six months.
Be wary of the many bad reviews. A lot of them are borne out of stuff you don't care about i.e. "unscrupulous sales tactics".
If you have a dealer near you, go wet test just to see how they compare. Totally worth the trip.
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I need to stop in and at east get some prices. How do they usually compare to Hot Spring pricing?
We did wet test today and really liked Prism and Grandee.
So far he's offered $15,900 new 2019 Prism, $13,600 2018 non-NXT show floor Grandee (not filled). Both with salt systems and cover lifters, so OTD price once you add tax.
Just found we have a Master Spa seller. They don't say what brand they sell online, but when I went to Master Spa's website it has them selling, so I'll have to check into them.
I have a Master Spa TS8.25 and I love it. Been in service for six months.
Be wary of the many bad reviews. A lot of them are borne out of stuff you don't care about i.e. "unscrupulous sales tactics".
If you have a dealer near you, go wet test just to see how they compare. Totally worth the trip.
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Yep, that's it. Old system was ACE salt water with 2-3 year cell's, new freshwater salt is cartridge with 4 month lifespan.
I think these are new 2019s...and brocher says ACE salt water system. What's the difference? Looks like there is the ACE salt water system or Everfresh system.
The freshwater Corona discharge ozone system is standard on all models to my knowledge, so not sure which you're referring to.
Are they quoting you for ACE or the new Freshwater Salt system?
The 2019 brochures have not been made yet which is why the brochure refers to ACE. The website is updated to reflect the new Freshwater Salt System. The Freshwater Ozone is now optional on all 2019 models (it doesn't play well with salt).
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I need to stop in and at east get some prices. How do they usually compare to Hot Spring pricing?
We did wet test today and really liked Prism and Grandee.
So far he's offered $15,900 new 2019 Prism, $13,600 2018 non-NXT show floor Grandee (not filled). Both with salt systems and cover lifters, so OTD price once you add tax.
I paid $15K including tax, delivery, cover lifter, WI-FI and ABS pan.
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That's Grandee right? Prism doesn't have abs pan?
I need to stop in and at east get some prices. How do they usually compare to Hot Spring pricing?
We did wet test today and really liked Prism and Grandee.
So far he's offered $15,900 new 2019 Prism, $13,600 2018 non-NXT show floor Grandee (not filled). Both with salt systems and cover lifters, so OTD price once you add tax.
I paid $15K including tax, delivery, cover lifter, WI-FI and ABS pan.
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That's Grandee right? Prism doesn't have abs pan?
I need to stop in and at east get some prices. How do they usually compare to Hot Spring pricing?
We did wet test today and really liked Prism and Grandee.
So far he's offered $15,900 new 2019 Prism, $13,600 2018 non-NXT show floor Grandee (not filled). Both with salt systems and cover lifters, so OTD price once you add tax.
He bought a Master Spa. And has seemed happy with it judging by his posts. Not a Hot Spring
I paid $15K including tax, delivery, cover lifter, WI-FI and ABS pan.
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So MS dealer can do $7,400 on a 2017 show room Precision 8 with lifter and steps, not filled but in show room, $8k for new one. Seems pretty good price, seems more work due to chemicals than Prism/HS salt systems. Also only 1 year warranty vs 5 year on HS Prism.
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And Marquis dealer quoted me $8,000 plus tax for a Woodstock model
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And Marquis dealer quoted me $8,000 plus tax for a Woodstock model
That's cheap. What options are included with that?
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So MS dealer can do $7,400 on a 2017 show room Precision 8 with lifter and steps, not filled but in show room, $8k for new one. Seems pretty good price, seems more work due to chemicals than Prism/HS salt systems. Also only 1 year warranty vs 5 year on HS Prism.
If you are trying to compare apples to apples then you might want to look at the Twilight or the LSX tubs from Master. I believe the Precision series is there entry level series. That's from the Clarity series I believe. I would compare prices on that to the Marquis Celebrity elite which has a much longer warranty and the Hot Spot line by Hot Springs which also has a longer warranty. I will say on that precision 8 the Master road show was in my town last weekend so I went to see what they were offering. They had that tub listed at about 11k but within 5 minutes of talking to him he was at like $6500. Pricing is regional thing. Rent, overhead, volume of business all plays into the pricing aspect of things. I don't think Master is a terrible tub, I do think there are a number of better options but the way they sell them is high pressure and make it look like you are saving lots of money. Sounds like you are dealing with a dealership so I would check there reviews and wet test whatever it is you decide on. Also (I don't know the answer to this one) what is the insulation like on the clarity line of spas?
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And Marquis dealer quoted me $8,000 plus tax for a Woodstock model
That's cheap. What options are included with that?
That's with lifter, $7800 for tub plus $200 lifter.
MS is headquartered in IN about 5 hours away from me, so I'd think my region should be low?
Clarity has full foam insulation per dealer. Unfortunately only HS dealer does wet test, Marquis and MS don't. MS dealer didnt feel the higher tiers provided as much to warrant there higher cost so he only does Healthy living and clarity (their 2 cheaper tiers).
Warranty is 7/5 years on Marquis Woodstock and HS prism/ pulse, only 1 year on MS Precision 8.
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And Marquis dealer quoted me $8,000 plus tax for a Woodstock model
That's cheap. What options are included with that?
That's with lifter, $7800 for tub plus $200 lifter.
MS is headquartered in IN about 5 hours away from me, so I'd think my region should be low?
Clarity has full foam insulation per dealer. Unfortunately only HS dealer does wet test, Marquis and MS don't. MS dealer didnt feel the higher tiers provided as much to warrant there higher cost so he only does Healthy living and clarity (their 2 cheaper tiers).
Warranty is 7/5 years on Marquis Woodstock and HS prism/ pulse, only 1 year on MS Precision 8.
FYI Woodstock is 3 year warranty on equipment not 5. Just the same it’s a great price.
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Yeah, HS is 7 year tub and 5 equipments as well. I do like the size of prism, but price is just way too much considering other options, I just hate to spend $8k without wet testing.
I do have an artesian and Caldera dealers an hour away and I they have bigger tubs like prism where MS and Marquis don't.
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Cantabria is a good option as well. Pricing will probably be a little higher then the prism.
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The difference between the lower end and higher end Master spas is not in the build quality. It's in the performance of the jets. The Twilight Series has the the high performance jetting that is great if hydrotherapy is high on your list.
Not sure why the dealer doesn't carry the higher end line or why they say there is not much difference. Take a look at the pictures of the tubs on the Master web site. The jet size on the TS line is significantly bigger than the Precision line. Those bigger jets move a lot more water than the smaller ones and really hit the muscles.
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The difference between the lower end and higher end Master spas is not in the build quality. It's in the performance of the jets. The Twilight Series has the the high performance jetting that is great if hydrotherapy is high on your list.
Not sure why the dealer doesn't carry the higher end line or why they say there is not much difference. Take a look at the pictures of the tubs on the Master web site. The jet size on the TS line is significantly bigger than the Precision line. Those bigger jets move a lot more water than the smaller ones and really hit the muscles.
I’m not sure nowadays but that wasn’t always the case. Up until 5-6 years ago I did a home show every year. Master was there and one of the tubs they showed running was a contractor series tub. That isn’t on there website anymore but that tub had almost zero insulation on it. Wasn’t sure if it was done away with or renamed something else. That dealer doesn’t do that show anymore so I haven’t really seen Masters up close since then except for on the occasional service call we do on them.
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Yeah, someone posted a picture recently of a "full foam" master and it was partially filled at best. They are not insulated very well from everything that I have seen. Back when I sold them they had even less insulation.
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The difference between the lower end and higher end Master spas is not in the build quality. It's in the performance of the jets. The Twilight Series has the the high performance jetting that is great if hydrotherapy is high on your list.
Not sure why the dealer doesn't carry the higher end line or why they say there is not much difference. Take a look at the pictures of the tubs on the Master web site. The jet size on the TS line is significantly bigger than the Precision line. Those bigger jets move a lot more water than the smaller ones and really hit the muscles.
I think we're move into just relaxing then any specific hydrotherapy, so while bigger jets are nice, not sure how much they are worth to us. I got a quote of $10,322 plus tax for TS8.2 with lifter.
Anyone have experience with Artesian tubs? That Bimini is freshen huuuuuge!! Lol
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The difference between the lower end and higher end Master spas is not in the build quality. It's in the performance of the jets. The Twilight Series has the the high performance jetting that is great if hydrotherapy is high on your list.
Not sure why the dealer doesn't carry the higher end line or why they say there is not much difference. Take a look at the pictures of the tubs on the Master web site. The jet size on the TS line is significantly bigger than the Precision line. Those bigger jets move a lot more water than the smaller ones and really hit the muscles.
I think we're move into just relaxing then any specific hydrotherapy, so while bigger jets are nice, not sure how much they are worth to us. I got a quote of $10,322 plus tax for TS8.2 with lifter.
Anyone have experience with Artesian tubs? That Bimini is freshen huuuuuge!! Lol
Artesian is definitely a top tier manufacturer and one of my personal favorite. You can get an awesome spa in their Island line for the range you're looking at. The footblasters are amazing.
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We're going up to Indy (hour away) to closest dealer on Sunday. Looking at Margarita Elite or Bimini probably. It seems they have a lot of different water treatment systems so time to do some research.
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The Isla Margarita is a great spa. I would definitely be happy to put one in my own yard. The layout is pretty cool imo. As for their numerous water treatment options, I strongly recommend the ProPure ozone with inline @ease. It's not their most expensive option, but I find it to be the best. In fact, it's my personal favorite water management system I have ever tried and I've tried quite a few over the years.
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Ok, so wife really liked the Island Margarita Elite, loved foot blaster and step to get into it (she'd admit she's a bit of a clutz). I think we'd be pretty happy with this one.
So family leisure of Indy quoted us today for Island Margarita Elite in glacier.
$11,100 plus tax with cover, lifter, steps, chemicals, @ease inline, ozone, diamond AOP UVC sanitation, pillowfall and tranquilityfall, durabright LED lights, foot blasters and delivery.
I was reading on the UVC and seems to be nice. He quoted me $450 for the kit on the tub and then $90/bulb/year for maintenance.
The rep didn't know what the Crysral ProPure ozone mixing chamber was, but was gonna check into it.
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That's a good price. That's sort of a red flag to me that the rep didn't know what propure is. I personally find it to perform the best and it's less expensive with no bulb to replace. The ozone generator itself will last 2-5 years. You used to be able to just replace the chip for $60 or something but I'm not sure if that's true for the new ozone unit. On paper, the UV does indeed look like the better option but propure combined with @ease has been the best performing system I've ever used. Your mileage may vary.
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So there's a Master spa factory in Indy that we got in touch with and going to go see a couple tubs there. Mainly looking at Twilight 8.2 @9-10k and Legend 900 @ 12-13k, so wells see how we like them. Our local MS dealer doesn't sell legend or have twight even on floor.
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There's not "a" MS factory in Fort Wayne "the" factory is there. You may be able to get a deal there more so than through a dealer. That's really weird that your local dealer doesn't offer TS or Legend. Those are the top two lines Masters makes.
I'm going to be very interested in your thoughts on the 8.2 vs the others you've tested performance wise on the jets. I hope you wet test the 8.2. I have the 8.25.
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There's not "a" MS factory in Fort Wayne "the" factory is there. You may be able to get a deal there more so than through a dealer. That's really weird that your local dealer doesn't offer TS or Legend. Those are the top two lines Masters makes.
I'm going to be very interested in your thoughts on the 8.2 vs the others you've tested performance wise on the jets. I hope you wet test the 8.2. I have the 8.25.
To me its scary to make a deal with the factory if a delaer isn't directly involved. Master does not have a reputation for putting customers first or for their sales tactics so you really need a go between dealer to be there for you.
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My impression is that their sales tactics are objectionable to the dealers not the customer. It's the local dealers they are screwing with their tent sales not the end user.
But you guys have been here a lot longer than me so...
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My impression is that their sales tactics are objectionable to the dealers not the customer. It's the local dealers they are screwing withe their tent sales not the end user.
But you guys have been here a lot longer than me so...
You're welcome to your impression (sample of 1) but I personally would never trust any company that would be willing to alienate their dealer network and if they're willing to do that why would they be expected to worry about (let alone go the extra mile) for a singular customer.
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There's not "a" MS factory in Fort Wayne "the" factory is there. You may be able to get a deal there more so than through a dealer. That's really weird that your local dealer doesn't offer TS or Legend. Those are the top two lines Masters makes.
I'm going to be very interested in your thoughts on the 8.2 vs the others you've tested performance wise on the jets. I hope you wet test the 8.2. I have the 8.25.
I knew about the Fort Wayne facility, but I guess I misread that there was another factory around Indy. Fort Wayne is a 3 hour drive, so gonna be tough to do that on a weekday, unless we can get a Sunday time and Google maps shows closed on Sundays.
Local will purchase a twilight, no floor models and won't even sell LSX.
I'm still on fence if MS jets will be better. Most tubs I've tested we don't like the jets turned up all the way anyways so marking them stronger is moot point for us. Is that some we will get used to and want stronger jets later?
Not going to rush 10-12k purchase, so we'll see if we can find time for showing/wet test and go from there, but I think we'd be plenty happy with the Artesian Island Margarita Elite if we don't end up going.
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You're welcome to your impression (sample of 1) but I personally would never trust any company that would be willing to alienate their dealer network and if they're willing to do that why would they be expected to worry about (let alone go the extra mile) for a singular customer.
For the umpteenth time I personally don't give a s**t about how they treat their dealers. I care about getting a well built high performance product which, contrary to the (sample of too many of the non-Master dealers on this forum) opinions of many, I have.
There really ought to be a dealers vs end users section on this board. The newbie consumer who wants good advice about which brand to go with has to sift through the bad feelings of the dealers here to root out what really matters to him/her. Too bad for end user guy.
Ralith, take the negative reviews of Master with a huge grain of salt. Most of them stem from stuff you won't care about. Again, I hope you give Master a try, if only to hear how you think they compare to the rest.
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There really ought to be a dealers vs end users section on this board. The newbie consumer who wants good advice about which brand to go with has to sift through the bad feelings of the dealers here to root out what really matters to him/her. Too bad for end user guy.
The problem with customer reviews is that a honeymoon review is different from a first, second, third year, and so on review. People may be steered to a particular brand because you (any new owner) said it was fabulous. Then a few years go by and it turns to junk. How good was the review?
Long time dealers and service techs ARE the guys to ask.
Master Spa is big in the MPLS/ST Paul area. A ton get sold around there. There are piles of techs, customers and dealers with a pile of experience with MS. I have worked on a ton of them. I am affiliated with no dealer. But my opinion is still nothing more than an opinion, based on my experience.
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You're welcome to your impression (sample of 1) but I personally would never trust any company that would be willing to alienate their dealer network and if they're willing to do that why would they be expected to worry about (let alone go the extra mile) for a singular customer.
For the umpteenth time I personally don't give a s**t about how they treat their dealers. I care about getting a well built high performance product which, contrary to the (sample of too many of the non-Master dealers on this forum) opinions of many, I have.
Ralith, take the negative reviews of Master with a huge grain of salt. Most of them stem from stuff you won't care about. Again, I hope you give Master a try, if only to hear how you think they compare to the rest.
IMO it is naive to think a manufacturer that has a reputation for not fully valuing its dealer base will fully value individual spa owners.
I think future customers should view your take with a huge grain of salt as well since its a sample of 1 stemming from a short ownership period (though I hope your long term experience goes well of course)!
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So probably not going to get to wet test any MS, 3-4 hour trip is a bit much.
Working on final details for the Artesian Island Margarita Elite, they're gonna throw in some @ease chemicals.
Also, they offer an extended warranty. From 5 of base to 10 years on parts, labor and electrical for $500. I need to see exact details, but $500 seems like about as much as 1 decently expensive tech visit so maybe worth it...although I'm always skeptical of extended warranty because they have to make money for company... maybe they don't expect me to keep tub past 5 years...
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For the umpteenth time I personally don't give a s**t about how they treat their dealers. I care about getting a well built high performance product which, contrary to the (sample of too many of the non-Master dealers on this forum) opinions of many, I have.
Just saying, factories like Master, are corporate. They care about sales, and only sales, and future sales.
Dealers are all privately owned small business. Of course we are in it for a living and to make money... but all of us are generally heavily involved in local communities where we do care about our customer (and our community's) long term success.
You are absolutely entitled to your opinion! However, I think it is at least worth pointing that a lot of dealers care far more about your good experience than any factory would. With that said, since dealers are the only ones (and independent service techs) who actually interact with the customer... their opinion is at least a little valid, despite you not giving a $*&$ about us.
I live by the simple rule... lying is bad. Master's sales tactics are flat out deceitful. I for one won't ever represent someone that lies or intentionally deceives someone for their own gain. Just like I would never hire a sales person that lies to try and make a sale. Speak the truth... if the customer chooses us, great, if not, we will get our share and life goes on.
Someday... it will come back to bite them...
Personally, I hope they just stop, because they build a decent enough product. If they put more of their effort into service support/quality control instead of paying out high commissions on crazy advertisement campaigns, they could be a top tier manufacturer
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They build a great product.
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They build a great product.
Glad you think so buddy
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Personally, I hope they just stop, because they build a decent enough product. If they put more of their effort into service support/quality control instead of paying out high commissions on crazy advertisement campaigns, they could be a top tier manufacturer
They would have to build a bit different. The insulation is lacking and they are noisy. Big power pumps lead to big electric bills.
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And they can sell the ProPure mixing chamber, but they've had some trouble with them freezing since its added on outaide after insulation and slow moving water in subzero temps is bad so they don't recommend them.
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You are absolutely entitled to your opinion! However, I think it is at least worth pointing that a lot of dealers care far more about your good experience than any factory would. With that said, since dealers are the only ones (and independent service techs) who actually interact with the customer... their opinion is at least a little valid, despite you not giving a $*&$ about us.
For sure the dealers' opinion is valid. I didn't say I don't give a s**t about dealers. I said I don't care about how Master treats its dealers.
Master's sales tactics are flat out deceitful.
Again....don't care.
...because they build a decent enough product
Yep, they sure do!
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Glad you think so buddy
Thanks!
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They would have to build a bit different. The insulation is lacking and they are noisy. Big power pumps lead to big electric bills.
Insulation is just fine thank you. That's another common fake rap against Master.
As to noise, the (white) noise while the pumps run remind me that my tub is kitted out with high-performance powerful pumps, plumbing and jets that deliver great massage therapy.
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You are absolutely entitled to your opinion! However, I think it is at least worth pointing that a lot of dealers care far more about your good experience than any factory would. With that said, since dealers are the only ones (and independent service techs) who actually interact with the customer... their opinion is at least a little valid, despite you not giving a $*&$ about us.
For sure the dealers' opinion is valid. I didn't say I don't give a s**t about dealers. I said I don't care about how Master treats its dealers.
Master's sales tactics are flat out deceitful.
Again....don't care.
...because they build a decent enough product
Yep, they sure do!
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You are absolutely entitled to your opinion! However, I think it is at least worth pointing that a lot of dealers care far more about your good experience than any factory would. With that said, since dealers are the only ones (and independent service techs) who actually interact with the customer... their opinion is at least a little valid, despite you not giving a $*&$ about us.
For sure the dealers' opinion is valid. I didn't say I don't give a s**t about dealers. I said I don't care about how Master treats its dealers.
Master's sales tactics are flat out deceitful.
Again....don't care.
...because they build a decent enough product
Yep, they sure do!
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You are absolutely entitled to your opinion! However, I think it is at least worth pointing that a lot of dealers care far more about your good experience than any factory would. With that said, since dealers are the only ones (and independent service techs) who actually interact with the customer... their opinion is at least a little valid, despite you not giving a $*&$ about us.
For sure the dealers' opinion is valid. I didn't say I don't give a s**t about dealers. I said I don't care about how Master treats its dealers.
Master's sales tactics are flat out deceitful.
Again....don't care.
...because they build a decent enough product
Yep, they sure do!
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Insulation is just fine thank you. That's another common fake rap against Master.
It can be fine for you.
But it's not fine for me. To many people complaining.
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Hey swilly just curious as what the master spa has done to your hydro bill this winter. I am using a hot springs flash on avg. 6 times a week our hydro bill has not really been affected at all. So just curious what the master spa has done to your hydro bill. I am extremely pleased with the flash as far as energy efficiency goes as our hydro bill has not been negatively effected. Pretty much pleased with all facets of the flash it is a great product. For reference I am located just south of toronto so pretty cold days here as well.
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Hey swilly just curious as what the master spa has done to your hydro bill this winter. I am using a hot springs flash on avg. 6 times a week our hydro bill has not really been affected at all. So just curious what the master spa has done to your hydro bill. I am extremely pleased with the flash as far as energy efficiency goes as our hydro bill has not been negatively effected. Pretty much pleased with all facets of the flash it is a great product. For reference I am located just south of toronto so pretty cold days here as well.
Swilly's tub has much bigger pumps than your Flash, it would be expected to be more energy hungry.
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Hey swilly just curious as what the master spa has done to your hydro bill this winter. I am using a hot springs flash on avg. 6 times a week our hydro bill has not really been affected at all. So just curious what the master spa has done to your hydro bill. I am extremely pleased with the flash as far as energy efficiency goes as our hydro bill has not been negatively effected. Pretty much pleased with all facets of the flash it is a great product. For reference I am located just south of toronto so pretty cold days here as well.
Swilly's tub has much bigger pumps than your Flash, it would be expected to be more energy hungry.
Exactly.
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Swilly you also state you do not care how master treats their dealers so in essence you are allaying you do not give a @/&- about their dealers. Which as a consumer is pretty bad. As a consumer If i am purchasing a 10000. 00 product I would certainly care about how the manufacturer represents and treats their dealers as the dealer is the one I am depending on for after saless service. If the manufacturer does not support their dealers how well are the dealers to support our after sales purchase? I am not mocking their product but you certainly condratict yourself. I think finding a manufacturer that supports the dealer network is more important than purchasing what you may think is a good product. As a consumer you will need after sales support if and when you have a concern with your product. The people on this forum that are giving advice are dealing with the manufacturer after the sale. If the dealer is not getting the support from the factory what good is your warranty. No product is perfect and as a consumer I think that after sales support is the most important aspect when you are dealing with a big ticket item. Just my two cents.
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Point taken however how many end users do you find posting bad reviews about Master? The only end user reviews I see about the company are glowing. It's only the dealers that post negatively. If they were screwing the end users you would see that in the reviews.
Sorry to sound so harsh about not caring how they treat their dealers. I just don't agree that treating dealers badly equates to treating end users badly.
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Hey swilly just curious as what the master spa has done to your hydro bill this winter. I am using a hot springs flash on avg. 6 times a week our hydro bill has not really been affected at all. So just curious what the master spa has done to your hydro bill. I am extremely pleased with the flash as far as energy efficiency goes as our hydro bill has not been negatively effected. Pretty much pleased with all facets of the flash it is a great product. For reference I am located just south of toronto so pretty cold days here as well.
Tub has been in service for six months now and will report back soon on hydro bill increase over last year. I live in Toronto on the Scarborough Bluffs. I'm expecting about $40/mth which doesn't bother me in the least.
I like massage therapy and will gladly pay that amount. Tub available 24/7 for $500ish/year, or the cost of five massages/year from a RMT.
I didn't buy the tub to save money. I will happily pay for performance.
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Tub has been in service for six months now and will report back soon on hydro bill increase over last year. I live in Toronto on the Scarborough Bluffs. I'm expecting about $40/mth which doesn't bother me in the least.
I like massage therapy and will gladly pay that amount. Tub available 24/7 for $500ish/year, or the cost of five massages/year from a RMT.
I didn't buy the tub to save money. I will happily pay for performance.
You will need to hook up a meter direct to your tub. Estimating based on last year means absolutely nothing.
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I didn't buy the tub to save money. I will happily pay for performance.
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I really like your statement. You bought a hot tub for a reason and understand that there is a cost associated with using it.
In regards to deceitful tactics and whatnot, my take is this; If a company is deceitful in one aspect of their business practice, how can they be trusted in any other aspect? Reputations are earned. Master Spas does not have their reputation because they are the biggest, because they are not. Their past actions resulted in this opinion. The same can be said about Cal Spas.
This forum probably amounts to less than 0.000000000000001% of the industry. I believe most people will never publicly voice their displeasure or satisfaction about a product or company which is why you don't always hear about the bad stuff. At the end of the day, I think Master builds a decent product. My two issues are that I will never trust them based on past actions and that they try to position themselves as a premium, top tier product, which they are not, but to each their own.
At the end of the day, I want to represent the best company and product I can and I believe all the other dealers/service techs on this site would agree. I've personally seen the bad at my previous job (Cal Spas), I've seen the good at my current job (Hot Spring, Caldera, Marquis), I couldn't go back.
Swilly1000, I'm glad you really like your Master Spa and hope you stick around here a long time to continue to share your experience.
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Cal spa's were a nightmare for us. They were one of the worst companies I ever dealt with.
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Cal spa's were a nightmare for us. They were one of the worst companies I ever dealt with.
The second most powerful tub I owned was a Cal spa. Took the double pump out and plumbed in a couple used in stock 56 frame 4 HP pumps, awesome.
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Cal spa's were a nightmare for us. They were one of the worst companies I ever dealt with.
A friend of mine brought Cal into his store. I stopped by about 2 months after when he showed me his floor models and raved that they fit well in his plan "great price points and specs, look at this and this ... it's a great option on the floor as a 2nd brand". I then innocently asked "how have the deliveries gone so far" and without blinking or he said "so far every one has leak after install but I need it for people who buy based on bling and price points, I'm living with it". That lasted less than a year.
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Point taken however how many end users do you find posting bad reviews about Master? The only end user reviews I see about the company are glowing.
You didn't look very hard then. On this very site there are quite few user reviews under the review section that are 1 star. Their BBB page has more complaints than the manufacturers commonly recommended on here. They do have a lot of good reviews on consumer affairs which has the first 3 google results when you search, but dig a little deeper and consumer affairs is not a trusted review site. It's a paid reputation management service.
https://www.truthinadvertising.org/consumer-affairs-com/ (https://www.truthinadvertising.org/consumer-affairs-com/)
Funny that the 2 brands most commonly referred to as being shady on here (cal spas and master) have great consumer affairs reviews. Turns out, they pay a lot of money to hide from their reputation.
I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but they really aren't as good all around as many other brands and they most definitely are not as well insulated or efficient as the top tier brands. Their water treatment system is just not as good as other options. Their cabinets are cheap and flimsy. And as we've beaten into the ground they are shady. There are much worse options out there but, having sold them in the past I am confident in my opinion that they just don't stack up to most of the other manufacturers I have worked with in numerous ways.
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Point taken however how many end users do you find posting bad reviews about Master? The only end user reviews I see about the company are glowing.
You didn't look very hard then. On this very site there are quite few user reviews under the review section that are 1 star. Their BBB page has more complaints than the manufacturers commonly recommended on here. They do have a lot of good reviews on consumer affairs which has the first 3 google results when you search, but dig a little deeper and consumer affairs is not a trusted review site. It's a paid reputation management service.
https://www.truthinadvertising.org/consumer-affairs-com/ (https://www.truthinadvertising.org/consumer-affairs-com/)
Funny that the 2 brands most commonly referred to as being shady on here (cal spas and master) have great consumer affairs reviews. Turns out, they pay a lot of money to hide from their reputation.
I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but they really aren't as good all around as many other brands and they most definitely are not as well insulated or efficient as the top tier brands. Their water treatment system is just not as good as other options. Their cabinets are cheap and flimsy. And as we've beaten into the ground they are shady. There are much worse options out there but, having sold them in the past I am confident in my opinion that they just don't stack up to most of the other manufacturers I have worked with in numerous ways.
The reviews on this board are all at least 6 years old and there aren't 12 of them I think. Plus which they are split between awesome and s**t. Take that with a grain of salt.
Other links please.
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Point taken however how many end users do you find posting bad reviews about Master? The only end user reviews I see about the company are glowing.
You didn't look very hard then. On this very site there are quite few user reviews under the review section that are 1 star. Their BBB page has more complaints than the manufacturers commonly recommended on here. They do have a lot of good reviews on consumer affairs which has the first 3 google results when you search, but dig a little deeper and consumer affairs is not a trusted review site. It's a paid reputation management service.
https://www.truthinadvertising.org/consumer-affairs-com/ (https://www.truthinadvertising.org/consumer-affairs-com/)
Funny that the 2 brands most commonly referred to as being shady on here (cal spas and master) have great consumer affairs reviews. Turns out, they pay a lot of money to hide from their reputation.
I hate to keep beating a dead horse, but they really aren't as good all around as many other brands and they most definitely are not as well insulated or efficient as the top tier brands. Their water treatment system is just not as good as other options. Their cabinets are cheap and flimsy. And as we've beaten into the ground they are shady. There are much worse options out there but, having sold them in the past I am confident in my opinion that they just don't stack up to most of the other manufacturers I have worked with in numerous ways.
The reviews on this board are all at least 6 years old and there aren't 12 of them I think. Plus which they are split between awesome and s**t. Take that with a grain of salt.
Other links please.
They certainly should be taken with a grain of salt, same as your own, each is a sample of 1. One idea is to ignore the maybe the most flattering and least flattering and then draw somewhat of a feeling from what's left.