Hot Tub Forum
General => Beating a dead horse => Topic started by: stuart on March 06, 2006, 12:11:13 pm
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We just finished a Home show....Sold about 50K in product but took a beating in attitude.
I've noticed that people get more volatile year by year. We see the same people show after show asking the same questions.
Here is a little summary of the weekend questions.
Customer: “So your shirt says Marquis, that sign says Dimension One and your hat has your store name...I'm confused. What company do you work for?”
Me: “All of them....Although looking at how your dressed I was wondering if you where in marketing or did Tommy Hilfiger, Nike and Budweiser con you into paying top dollar for the right to advertise for them?”
Customer: “How many jets are in this spa right here?”
Me: “How many jets were you looking for?”
Customer; “I'm not sure, but I think I need at least 50.”
Me: “What would make you think around 50 is good?”
Customer; “Most of the spas we've seen have about 50.....”
Me: “Did you know that every jet requires at least 3 plumbing joints? If you could get a great massage with half as many jets would you be happy?”
Customer “Naw, I really think I need 50 jets but thanks....”
C: “How come you don't have prices on all of your spas so that we know how much they are? That’s really stupid.”
M: “What are you looking to spend on a spa?”
C: “Oh, we not going to buy one...we live in an apartment.”
M: “Well let me let you in on a little secret....We don't show pricing because it could be depressing to you to know that for pocket change you could own a spa if you could only afford a house. That would just be cruel....”
C: “Where are your spas made?”
M: “Depends on the brand...Are you looking for a spa?”
C: “Yes but we want one made in a cold climate like this so we know it will handle our weather....”
M: “Really, so you talked to the Arctic factory guys did you?”
C: “Well....yes...how did you know?”
M: “Did you know that Columbia ski jacket your wearing is made in Malaysia? It can't possibly be warm in cold weather can it?”
C: “…..yes…Well, do you have to use chemicals in this spa?”
M: “Only if you want to keep the water clean and keep the spa from deteriorating! So I take it you talked to the Hotspring guys to?”
C: “Um..Yeah…they said that they don’t use any chemicals….”
M: “Did they say they didn’t use chemicals or that they didn’t use Bromine or Chlorine.”
C: “I don’t remember…”
M: “All spas use chemicals…Sounds like you’ve been fed a lot of lines of BS would you like some honesty and common sense about spas?”
She bought two spas…!!
Here's the best one...
C: "We have a 6 year old CalSpa"
M: "Oh really? How is it holding up"
C: "Great, never had a bit of trouble with it!"
M: "Really? Say, have you had your pump seals checked?"
C: "Oh we replaced both pumps twice"
M: "...but never a bit of problem?"
C: "Nope been great! New heater really works well!"
M: "You had to put a new heater in?"
C: "Yeah, they replace that every once in awhile along with the circulation pump."
M: "Wow, I'm glad it's held up so well...."
C: "Yeah, we might be talking to you in a couple of years though...I just noticed some little cracks in the shell"
M "hmmmm, but it's held up for you good?!"
C "YEP!"
I could not begin to tell you some of the stupid questions, angry remarks and lies I heard….
Two questions I have are:
Why is it that the guy that always interrupts a presentation with a good prospect has no desire to buy a spa nor the resources but wants you to answer a question for his girlfriend right then?
Is there a group of people or club that swings by the home shows and drop their small children off to be entertained in the spa booths while they go grocery shopping?
Oh last but not least….
I could see most of the other booths and saw no one writing deals, in fact I saw salespeople outside smoking or setting around in the booth yet they all claim to have written over 20 deals! What a talent! It takes us working with the customer for 45 minuets to an hour and setting at the table writing for at least 30 minuets!
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Home shows....
Well as a consumer who goes to these trying to get info and see who has what, Sometimes I feel like a piece of raw meat in the lions den. LAst year I needed windows. Good lord. I heard so much B.S and was harrassed by vendors....it was nuts. This year I need to do a bathroom and am looking at getting some info on a pool. have mercy on me.
So if a forlourn customer happens by with a wild look in his eye and is a bit defensive, have pitty on him. Give him a free magnet ;D
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Home shows....
LAst year I needed windows. Good lord. I heard so much B.S and was harrassed by vendors....it was nuts. ;D
This is a case where I would defintely go with the thermal pane type.
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This is a case where I would defintely go with the thermal pane type.
yes. I am regretting my full foamed window decision. I blame the vendor who had the bikini clad window model and free beer. :-[
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Thats funny. I remember years ago telling customers that the only reason the Thermo pane story exists in windows is because you cant see through foam.! If they could invent a perfectly see thru foam, all windows would be foam filled and not sealed air.
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Too funny!! ;D
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We just finished a Home show....
That certainly explains the rant post from yesterday!
Aint we consumers a peach?
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Wanna know why I got out of retail? Read this and Stu's "ranting" thread... ;)
I found myself becoming more confrontational and less productive. It was the best move I ever made personally. Home shows were the worst and though I still attend them with my dealers, I can tolerate them knowing I'm the not the primary salesperson anymore.
A couple of things have to happen Stu. I know consumers have become more hostile for the most part so it's not just you but you need to let your business work for you and not such much you working for your business. Remove yourself from situations that cause stress and allow your manager to deal with this more. This may mean not attending the full shows but your mental health takes priority right? There’s no shame in doing that as you’ve done your time and you need to empower others to deal with this primarily.
If that doesn't make sense to ya…I hear Hawaii calling… ;)
Steve
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My first thought when I read this was "oh boy, he needs a vacation" (Good call, Steve) I'm hearing Cozumel, not Hawaii calling, but ANYWHERE will do, yes?
And am I the only one who finds Stuart's post and Term's choice of Pic-o-the day IRONIC? (Nice comment on the bikini clad window model, Drew)
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Sorry to hear about your weekend show Stuart. I have to admit I love shows. We do two a year and the first one is the biggest and it's this comming weekend.
I work for a company with 7 women salespeople. I worry less about the competition at a show than my coworkers LOL. We joke that if we trip and fall we'll have footprints on our back from the other girls trying to get to the customer.
I've always loved the energy that a show brings to the start of the building season. I feel that shows are an excellent place to create new blood. They force you to be on your game and to sharpen your knowledge.
The people in North Dakota are very friendly but every once in awhile I work with someone who pushes my buttons.
One thing I started doing a few years ago really helped me qualify a buyer from a looker. I ask, so have you been shopping for spas for awhile or are you just starting? I'll ask where are putting the spa, inside or ouside? and what brands have you looked at and what did you liked about that brand.
These are general questions and if they say... Well we've been looking on and off for years. Or, we really don't have a place for a spa, but we love to come to the shows to see whats new. Or we're really sold on brand X but wanted to see if you could beat their price. I'm always polite and I'll spend a small amount of time with them and give them a brochure with my card on it. I'll let them know where our store is and that they really should wet test any spa that their interested in, and then cut them loose.
Time is money at a show and it's all about numbers. The more people you talk to the better chance you have of selling something. ;) ;)
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Stuart, I think some of what irritated you was the attitude of people who really had no interest in buying a spa. Home shows don't always live up to their billing and often many of the visitors end up irritated at the crowds and sorry that they went anyway. I went to a home show on Sunday. My Marquis sales person sent me tickets because I had mentioned that I was interested in a few home projects this spring.
The show advertised alternate energy vendors, there was ONE person there representing solar technology. I patiently waited while this obnoxious person asked this man all sorts of (what I considered stupid) questions. You could tell that he was just talking to hear hiimself talk, he had no more interest in shelling out money to install solar collectors, he just was jabbering for nothing. What a waste of time.. and it changed my whole mood for the rest of the show. As we worked our way around, we found Sundance spa reps with a beautiful set up and a D1 dealer beside him. I wanted to get a closer look but did not want to encounter the salesmen. When the Sundance rep moved away from his booth, I took my husband over to get a closer look. If the rep would have returned, I'm not sure what I would have said to him. I obviously wasn't in the market for a tub, but I was interested to see the foot dome and some of the things that Sundance folks on here like about their tubs. the D1 was a swim spa and the first I had ever seen. The point I am trying to make is, as a dealer/vendor at these type of events, you have no idea of who you are dealing with when you approach them. I can remember going to home shows years ago and looking at the spas and engaging in conversations with the sales people and I probably sounded like that guy that made me mad at the solar booth. When you don't have a clue, but just want to talk or ask questions with no intention to buy, you do waste the sales person's time. You may irritate him to no end, but the atmosphere at a home show allows that. You would not expect the same type of people to walk into your showroom and bombard you with goofy questions. They are there to look at just hot tubs, not windows and lending companies and garage floor companies. I really think the homeshow atmosphere is part of why you felt such frustration. Hopefully, now that it is over, you can remember why you got into this in the first place and jump into your own tub for a nice long soak!
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So I talked to this grumpy Marquis rep at the spa show.
I asked him how many pumps this spa had.
He asked how many did I think I needed.
I told him that wasn’t the question.
He said two.
I asked him “and it powers all these jets?”
He said ‘Yep’
I said “all at once?”
He said, do you think you need them on all at once?
I said, that wasn’t the question.
He said well, it’s designed to focus the massage on individual areas.
So I said “the answer is no.”
He said well you’d need three pumps to do that.
I asked if it came with three pumps.
He said no.
I asked why doesn’t it come with three pumps.
He said then the heater wouldn’t run when you’re in the spa with three pumps on.
I said what’s the problem with that?
He said well, it could lose temperature when you’re in it if it’s cold and windy out.
I said well, it makes me glad I bought an Arctic – lousy non-FF and all……..
3 pumps, great power to all jets, water stays hot running three pumps without the heater, not to mention comfy seats I don’t float out of. Hmmmmmm….who was it in another post said it was all about hot clean water, comfortable seating and good jets?
Oh and I do calisthenics on the cover just for fun……… ;D
Dude – you need a vacation……….the negativity keeps knocking out my DSL………The Arctic slams, subtle or otherwise are old and tired.
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Stuart,
It sounds like you have had a rough week and have the blues. Who's the guy on the Blue Collar Comedy Tour whose lead statement is "You can't fix stupid"?
You need to remind yourself of the serenity prayer: "Please God help me to have the courage to fix the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I can't, and the courage to know the difference."
Take a long weekend off. Don't let stupid people set the tone for you. If you let them get under your skin you are only going to get more blues and you can't resolve their problems. Dumb people such as you describe were broken way before they came to your booth.
Regards,
Bill
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Who slammed Arctic?
???
I was wondering the same thing.
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I think he was referring to this comment:
C: “Where are your spas made?”
M: “Depends on the brand...Are you looking for a spa?”
C: “Yes but we want one made in a cold climate like this so we know it will handle our weather....”
M: “Really, so you talked to the Arctic factory guys did you?”
C: “Well....yes...how did you know?”
M: “Did you know that Columbia ski jacket your wearing is made in Malaysia? It can't possibly be warm in cold weather can it?”
C: “…..yes…Well, do you have to use chemicals in this spa?”
M: “Only if you want to keep the water clean and keep the spa from deteriorating! So I take it you talked to the Hotspring guys to?”
C: “Um..Yeah…they said that they don’t use any chemicals….”
M: “Did they say they didn’t use chemicals or that they didn’t use Bromine or Chlorine.”
C: “I don’t remember…”
M: “All spas use chemicals…Sounds like you’ve been fed a lot of lines of BS would you like some honesty and common sense about spas?”
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Poor Stuart! He really needs a vacation. :o We just finished up with our Home Show this weekend and we are all tired! We have all lost our voices and are glad it is over! We encountered hundreds of people that he explained and yes, I was getting tired of their wasting my time, but the one thing that saved most of us was the booth across from us. They were selling the Vita-Mix which is a mixer that can freeze ice cream and boil water. If we were feeling down and tired of people who rent, don't have room, are building or are in the midst of buying the house we would walk over there and get tortilla soup, a frappacino or some yummy strawberry ice cream! Thank goodness for them. I think I can speak for a few people out there, I'm glad that their are only Home Shows once or twice a year because if we had to deal with people like that all the time there would be alot of turnover in the spa business and an increase in the casket business! Cheer up Stuart, it's over, go jump in a tub have a glass of wine and perk up for next year! ;D
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I think he was referring to this comment:
Got it, I guess I didn't catch that because I thought someone was offended by a comment about their product (I guess the Cal Spas guys don't show here too often) but I see he did take a dig at that crazy marketing comment that many of us roll our eyes at.
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I was wondering the same thing.
I think it kinda came from what Meriflower said, but also the other thread:
2. Justify whatever you want in insulation but if my builder tells me that he is going to take 40% of the insulation from around my hot water pipes and "use the dead air space to capture heat" he's fired! Likewise if he suggests that it will be easier to fix leaks I will have to question the ability of his plumber.
8. I don't give a crap where your spa is made....I care how it is made. If you use the location of your factory as a reason for how well your spa holds heat you're a fraud and deceptive to your customers.
9. As a customer I don't care how many people can stand on my cover I care how well it holds heat.
The thing is, everybody got slammed, and Stuart just needs a break. Not worth anyone getting their hackles up. IMO.
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Not worth anyone getting their hackles up. IMO.
Without even knowing what a hackle is, I agree.
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Without even knowing what a hackle is, I agree.
A hackle is the feathers in the back (?) of a chicken's neck ... they use these feathers for fly fishing "flies".
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Without even knowing what a hackle is, I agree.
hehehe. Ever seen a really defensive or scared/angry dog? The area at the back of the neck and shoulders- how the hair stands up? Thems hackles.
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I understand your rant and see your point but here's a counterpoint.
As a consumer, a "home show" may be (I've never been to one) the place to see everything you want and dream. I believe that most people window shop at these things, kind of like having catalogs sent to our houses. They don't look at it as wasting your time since you're "stuck" there manning the booth.
Stuart, you said in your rant something to the effect of "don't assume your soaking experience is the same as someone elses", well I have to say don't assume people have the same intelligence as you. I am finding that there are some stupid people in this world - young, middle age and old. Myself included at times!
I agree with Chas and Steve - Since you get upset - send one of your employees to do the show and maybe stop doing the show. You obviously have a successful business and enough stress (I'm thinking about the split tub) in your life you don't need this.
Just my $0.02
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blah blah blah blah blah
Nice attempt at making this all about YOU stl-rex! ::)
There were more than a few manufacturers mentioned and all of it was true. Make peace with that and don't get your panties all in a bunch!!
Every manufactuer makes claims that can't be substanciated. Even Hydropool and I'd be the first to admit it.
Steve
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As a mere consumer reading this forum of late I am awfully glad I already bought a tub. I sure get the feeling I'd be a dang nuisance walking into a home show or some dealer's places, being as stupid as I probably am and all. I don't think some of these threads are helping the general reputation of hot tub sellers that some people have complained about. Good luck all. Paul
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Well as I stated, subtle or otherwise, but he fired off some shots in the rant thread and in this one. As good as business is, you'd think he'd a bit happier.
We are a "deal oriented" society. It's been built that way recently. If we weren't, he would post his prices at the show rather than get pissed because someone had the nerve to ask. In general, the internet has opened folks eyes to pricing. Even this site contributes to the "problem" because a wide range of prices appear against a single model. As far as "show pricing", you guys do it to yourself as an industry by advertising "show only" pricing. Of course an average person is going to ask about it in each and every booth.
I actually find most of Stuart's post informative and helpful, but that's a harsh tone taken with the folks that pay the bills and in spite of your good business, the competition must be more than let on judging by the shots at the competition. Granted, I'm sure hearing the same things gets old but and it probably is irritating when you're getting ready to talk to someone and their attention is diverted to someone else standing on their cover. But that's sales. I'm sure Ford and GM dealers get sick of people flashing their Consumer Reports as the dealer tries to tell them that their cars are reliable.
Every mfr has marketing points and will exploit them to their fullest. They are afterall in the business to sell product. Some have more effective or exploitable marketing points than others. Blame the mfr that you represent, not the competition.
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Nice attempt at making this all about YOU stl-rex! ::)
There were more than a few manufacturers mentioned and all of it was true. Make peace with that and don't get your panties all in a bunch!!
Every manufactuer makes claims that can't be substanciated. Even Hydropool and I'd be the first to admit it.
Steve
Hey, it's not about me. I don't sell spas and I don't live in an area he services. But I own a spa he enjoys taking shots at. As an owner who's in the spa nearly every day, I think I'm just as qualified or more so to talk about that brand against which he competes. He gets pissed because people like me and others speak favorably of their brand even though we "know nothing not having been in the business for years". Well people like me are an asset. We've just wet tested the latest and greatest competing models, formed an opinion, and share it. We are an alternative to the dealers whose agenda, however how noble, have an eye on the bottom line. Concede anything to a competitor and you may have lost a sale. It's so obvious at times.
I also think that if his opinions of his customers are accurate, he needs to find a new profession. No one should hold that much negative contempt for the people who keep their doors open.
My panties are unbunched - but thanks for reminding me to check them........... ;)
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Wow! I share some of the questions and conversations that I found funny, odd or misplaced and people here take it personal?
None of this is an attack on anyone....This was my weekend!
If some of you think this post was all about you, your spa, your position in the grand scheme of things and let it hurt your feelings you have some issues that you should probably deal with.
I know... try a rant!! How about the “stuarts picking on arctic rant” or the “stuarts grouchy and mean rant” or better yet “it’s all about me rant”?
I don't need a vacation, I need a place for a reality check and a place that I can vent somewhere and this forum was always that.
I'm not angry, I'm not depressed and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. On the contrary I rather enjoyed writing the last two posts and have had friends say they rather enjoyed reading them.
I hope you can understand that I'm not going to put an Arctic-bashing disclaimer on every post.... Funny, I always thought that if you got defensive over something it was because of a guilty conscience!
I met several great people this weekend! In fact, I think that I need someone else to work the show so that I can spend my time hobnobbing with customers, friends and acquaintances that seem to come by in droves.
I really enjoyed all of the young couples out spending time together because one of them just got back from Iraq.
I would not be in business without consumers and things would be boring if not for the colorfulness of human nature but in the words of Ron White "You just can't fix stupid!"
Disclaimer....I'm not calling anyone on this forum stupid, if comments on this post resemble any similarities to anyone here or anyone you know it is simply coincidental, no Arctic spas where damaged in typing this post, Ron Whites name was used without his permission
This has been brought to you by “Tired old spa warrior rants inc.”
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Every manufactuer makes claims that can't be substanciated. Even Hydropool and I'd be the first to admit it.
Steve
Don't I know it. I saw them at a show and decided to check them out and the salesperson kept going on about how great their regional sales reps were and I was like "don't try to sell me swamp land, I know one of those MYTGEWFYCLEWS".
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MYTGEWFYCLEWS".
I have no clue what that is but I bet Steve is one of those..... ;) ;D
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We are a "deal oriented" society.
This is so true and it is what Barnum's theory is structured on, "There is a sucker born every minute, and two to take his money."
Cars, boats, diamonds, real estate, bridges, swamp land, etc, for that matter anything that is bought or sold is subject to a dealing discussion, but here we are talking about Hot Tubs. It is the "deal" oriented sucker that that is a fool and gets sucked up by all the rebates that were too good to be true and they weren't. It is just tiring to see so many fools get sucked in and they think they know what they are doing.
It is really a great thing that ALL HOT TUBS are good, because those that have them enjoy them regardless of who made them or where they came from. The better the quality reputation of the manufacturer, harder and more dfficult it is to sell it at a show because every body is looking for a "deal" and only those who are good at manipulation do it best.
You heard Chas say it, you make a small fortune at a show that cost you a large fortune to be at, just to watch suckers circle the bait and get gobbled up by the sharks, while the honest and reputable educate them enough to make them feel capable of making any decision they can afford.
It is all about psychology and how to the game is played. Those that have ethics, morals and integrity just don't do well, while the moths fly into the flame and the lambs are led to the slaughter. It is really frustrating to watch for more than 20 years and hear their stories as they complain later. ::) :-/
It does seem that some are sensitive about their brands whether they sell them or bought them. Some are defensive, some are arrogant, some are happy and some are not.
For heavens sake it is only money, and it is all about the deal and the lowest bidder. Those that have it don't need to dicker. Those that don't shouldn't spend what they don't have, but that won't stop those who know how to take it.
Disclaimer, this is not intended to impugne any character, company, product, past, previous or future decisions. May you enjoy 100% of the choices you make in life, even if it is to sell Hot Tubs to a whole lot of nice people or buy a Hot Tub and enjoy your delight.
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You think it's rough buying a spa, J McD mentioned Diamonds. Now there is a racket. Sleeze-O-Rama. If you don't know you're stuff..............you will get hung out to dry. I've seen it happen to too many friends that don't listen to me.
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You think it's rough buying a spa, J McD mentioned Diamonds. Now there is a racket. Sleeze-O-Rama. If you don't know you're stuff..............you will get hung out to dry. I've seen it happen to too many friends that don't listen to me.
That's why I got my wife a genuine Diamonique! ;)
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Wow! I share some of the questions and conversations that I found funny, odd or misplaced and people here take it personal?
None of this is an attack on anyone....This was my weekend!
If some of you think this post was all about you, your spa, your position in the grand scheme of things and let it hurt your feelings you have some issues that you should probably deal with.
I know... try a rant!! How about the “stuarts picking on arctic rant” or the “stuarts grouchy and mean rant” or better yet “it’s all about me rant”?
I don't need a vacation, I need a place for a reality check and a place that I can vent somewhere and this forum was always that.
I'm not angry, I'm not depressed and I don't have a chip on my shoulder. On the contrary I rather enjoyed writing the last two posts and have had friends say they rather enjoyed reading them.
I hope you can understand that I'm not going to put an Arctic-bashing disclaimer on every post.... Funny, I always thought that if you got defensive over something it was because of a guilty conscience!
I met several great people this weekend! In fact, I think that I need someone else to work the show so that I can spend my time hobnobbing with customers, friends and acquaintances that seem to come by in droves.
I really enjoyed all of the young couples out spending time together because one of them just got back from Iraq.
I would not be in business without consumers and things would be boring if not for the colorfulness of human nature but in the words of Ron White "You just can't fix stupid!"
Disclaimer....I'm not calling anyone on this forum stupid, if comments on this post resemble any similarities to anyone here or anyone you know it is simply coincidental, no Arctic spas where damaged in typing this post, Ron Whites name was used without his permission
This has been brought to you by “Tired old spa warrior rants inc.”
I find it odd you would go on a forum frequented by consumers and basically call us all a bunch of idiots as a way of venting. By the very admission you were venting tells me that is what you believe, that you "just had to get it off your chest". After the fact niceties and "I didn't really mean that" don't carry a whole lot of weight. Not that what I think matters to you, but it might to others who are trying to figure out what the hell crawled up yours.
Of course your dealer friends find it amusing and well said as they probably feel the same way about their customers (as is evidenced by their supportive comments.)
So do you pay "sticker" for your new (or used) cars? Or do you haggle out the best deal?
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I do not think this is about haggling your best deal....
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I find it odd you would go on a forum frequented by consumers and basically call us all a bunch of idiots as a way of venting. By the very admission you were venting tells me that is what you believe, that you "just had to get it off your chest". After the fact niceties and "I didn't really mean that" don't carry a whole lot of weight. Not that what I think matters to you, but it might to others who are trying to figure out what the hell crawled up yours.
Of course your dealer friends find it amusing and well said as they probably feel the same way about their customers (as is evidenced by their supportive comments.)
So do you pay "sticker" for your new (or used) cars? Or do you haggle out the best deal?
Perhaps I missed something.....but I never got the impression anyone was referring to anyone as idoits...what I think gets lost here by many is that most consumers on this forum are not like the average person who walks in your door or who you meet at a home show....etc....most people here want to make an informed decision or simply enjoy owning their spa and like the common shared experience of ownership that most have here on this board.....I took the post as someone venting about a long weekend.....I can say this......I wish we had more consumers that walked in our door that did the research that those here do........Do not get me wrong we have met some truly wonderful people....who are now customers as well as freinds...but most who come in have very little idea about what makes a spa worthy of the investment and depending and who and what they want to beleive....a quick example....we lost a sale to another dealer....lower price....a few months later the customers are back at our place looking for help.... it was spa/ gazebo package they bought...when I asked what the trouble was it was that they could not get the cover off their spa.....turns out the other "deal" was cheaper because the gazebo was to small for the spa....it fit inside but left to room for clearance for a lift and it made using the spa very diffcult.....it really opened my eyes as just how low some will go to make a supposed deal....I am speaking of the other dealer....anyway......I appreciate those contribute here to this board both from the dealers and consumers and again I say Thank you to you all....... :D
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As an owner who's in the spa nearly every day, I think I'm just as qualified or more so to talk about that brand against which he competes.
Now that's what I'm talking about!!! Because you own a spa you want to seen as an expert on your brand! I own a BMW Cycle but I know far less about it then the mechanic at the Honda dealership that works on all brands. Staying at a holiday inn express doesn’t really give you knowledge!
Do you think Arctic invented Thermopane insulation?
Do you think they engineered that equipment pack or invented the cedar wood cabinet? Fact is that most of the things they have one that spa are ideas taken from other brands.
I've seen hundreds of spas with similar features...some last some don't but I've seen them fail and survive at most levels. You've seen your spa…How many wooden rails have you fixed on spas? How many cabinet doors of the same design have you repaired? Do you have any idea how many motors failed on the first brands of TP spas because they never cooled and stayed in constant overheat condition? Do you think they did that in the first 3 years? I promise you that your motors stand a better chance of failure by the 5-year mark than many others but you wouldn't know that because you haven't gotten to that point.
Do you have any idea how heavy all of those 6 inch covers will get when they begin to water log?
He gets pissed because people like me and others speak favorably of their brand even though we "know nothing not having been in the business for years". Well people like me are an asset. We've just wet tested the latest and greatest competing models, formed an opinion, and share it.
Are you that blinded to see that I have no problem with your relationship with your spa or brand? I have a problem with how they have been marketed for the last few years. Your spa is not the problem, the quality is not the problem, the attitude of many dealers and the way the factory allows and perhaps encourages sales is. Do you have an identity problem that makes you think your employed by Arctic in some way?
You know plenty, you know a lot about your spa and your have a mild knowledge of the few tubs you wet tested but that's it. I test drove several cars before I bought my SUV but that doesn’t make me Ralph Nader.
Your right your formed an opinion...that's all it is, your opinion! You have yet to dissect the industry enough for it to be solid fact. You’re on a journey to that knowledge and this site is part of that but your still a long way from many who have been trekking that road most of their lives.
.We are an alternative to the dealers whose agenda, however how noble, have an eye on the bottom line. Concede anything to a competitor and you may have lost a sale. It's so obvious at times. .
My agenda is the bottom line? What is it that you think I get paid for here? I’ve spent countless hours here helping people on brands that I don’t give a crap about because they felt they had no where else to turn. I’ve called factories, dealerships and even component manufactures to help people on this forum and it didn’t get me a thing! When’s the last time you called a competitor up to help one of their customers for no personal gain? I do it all the time here.
.I also think that if his opinions of his customers are accurate, he needs to find a new profession. No one should hold that much negative contempt for the people who keep their doors open. .
I started my store from the back of a truck with a spa and gazebo that I maxxed out two cards to buy. I used grocery money to buy a banner and did all sales, deliveries and service myself. In my first year I did 1.3 million in sales, now six years later I own one of the largest stores in the state. I’ve never had the luxury of being in the red or letting someone else take care of it and it didn’t happen without an extremely good referral base.
Where is it that you get that I have contempt for my customers? By me questioning the rudeness of some people at a show? Let me ask you something…Because I make a joking comment about the spa brand you bought, you feel that you can justify attacking me and a brand that you know little to nothing about? Are you OK with the potential that your attitude could take food off of my table? I have no choice but to take this dead serious, it’s my livelihood….It’s your hobby.
Next week for grins lets get into a discussion about what you do for a living, your obviously bored with it if you spend so much time trying to dominate mine…
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I have to agree with you Stuart. I looked around and bought my spa based on personal preference, quality and a judgment call as to the quality of service that I would receive from my dealer. I didn't get to see an Arctic tub, no dealers in my area, but I did read up on them. I looked into HS, Marquis, Caldera, Maax, Coleman, Jacuzzi, Cal, Bullfrog, Costco brand, HD brand, Catalina, Coast and Vita. I made a decision that I knew I would have to live with for a long time, well actually my wife got the final decision. The guy I bought from didn't cut up the other brands, he just told me what he liked about the brand he rep'd. Sure he stretched it a bit, but all of the other guys did a lot more. If we all owned the same brand of tub, then we could just sit around and tell each other how much we love each other. Well we don't. We discuss issues from choosing a tub to site prep to whether we need a roof over our tub or not. I personally don't care which tub everybody else owns. I don't need to know that you bought the same tub as I did to make me feel any more right about my decision. My tub is FF and I don't care what yours is, but the fact that we discuss it is great. The comments from the show that you wrote about are funny Stuart. I can see that you can get a bit fed up with the dummies at the shows, and well, that's up to you to handle the situation how you feel. If the smart a$$ doesn't like your attitude, that's his problem. I'm sure that a lot of people like to play the devils advocate at the shows. I guess that is their way of feeling superior.
What do I have to offer to this forum as a whole?
My opinion and observations on my tub of choice
My observations on the chems that I have used
My experience in the electrical field
Steve
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Thanks Steve! The electrical field input is really a plus!
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Stuart...you are allowed to trash talk any brand you want. If Rex gets hurt tough s**t I also could care less what brand anyone owns for that matter and if they feel they need to constantly justify there purchase and we are not allowed to say one is a piece of junk and another is terribly built something is wrong. I just think it's funny how I get blasted for trash talking Arctic even though I never do and yet there are a few Arctic guys who instead of coming around and saying "they think Arctic is fine" they continualy jump in and say they are tired of us trash talking Arctic.
Well guess what. I could give a rip what you think. I can trash talk any brand I want!!!
Man this gets sickening, bunch of baby.
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I really wanted to respond to this thread, but did not know what I could really add that would be useful.
I like when we have people go on tangents. It gives me something to do than look at an excel spreadsheet all morning, afternoon, and evening. Personally, I took Stuart’s comments with a grain of salt.
I would love to see a Chas rant or at least another Chas vs. Arjuna debate because that keeps me occupied for a good 2 days.
I did have one question: Why aren’t the Hotspring people up in arms about Stuart’s comments about Hotspring sales personnel saying their spas require no chemicals.
NOTE: if Chas has ranted on something post the link because that has to be like reading The Da Vinci Code.
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You think it's rough buying a spa, J McD mentioned Diamonds. Now there is a racket. Sleeze-O-Rama. If you don't know you're stuff..............you will get hung out to dry. I've seen it happen to too many friends that don't listen to me.
We have been saying the same thing with great consternation and critisism.
The problem here is that we are all individuals and we are human. It is just that we may meet 2000 to 3000 of them at a show and they too are individuals of every description. It doesn't take long to have some inferior idiot come in to challenge your thinking. Stuart is only expressing how those idiots present themselves with such inteligent thoughts. It just seems that there are a few sensitive issues that he has touched upon and those who do not know what he is talking about are taking personal offense.
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If you are wondering where the Terminator is on all of this...I can only guess that he is polishing one of his pieces and sitting back grinnin'. That is one man who just loves what he does, every aspect of it. As long as I have been reading this forum, I have never seen him shoot seriously negative remarks about any other brand and while he may refer to a few folks as goobers, he does it all in jest...My hat's off to you Term...You'll live
a long and happy life and you deserve it! :D
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As I had stated earlier in another post, IMO trash talk from a sells person is not what I want to hear when I was shopping for a tub. Its a free world, and some people are more opinionated. Thats ok, but to me, that is a sign of a lack of professionalism. Its no big deal, its a turn-off to me. It makes me think that the salesperson doesn't know the qualities of their product so they have to knock the competitions. I know its a sells tactic. And that it works, it just doesn't work for me.
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Man, I LOVE doing shows. This weekend, I went over to Shreveport just to help out because I enjoy visiting with people.
I can relate to the aggravation in dealing with some of the goobers that stop by the booth, but I just try to have fun with it as much as possible. You just never know when the irritating, semi-retarded yokel you're talking to is liable to suddenly change demeanor and whip out the credit card. I've seen it many times.
Customers like to play ignorant sometimes just to see how you're going to react. They will lie like dogs, always trying to find your weakspot. Even sweet little ol' me sometimes loses my patience and I shoo them away. But, when you can roll with the flow and continue to be patient, sometimes they will reward you with a purchase, which is what you're there for in the first place.
Spa selling ain't saving the world and it ain't curing cancer and it ain't really very important in the grand scheme of things. But, it is a ton of fun and very rewarding when you can look back at the end of the day and say "I sell a damn fine product that makes a lot of people happy. I can sure live with that."
Hang in there, you ol' spa selling warrior! ;D
Terminator
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Stuart,
It sounds like you have had a rough week and have the blues. Who's the guy on the Blue Collar Comedy Tour whose lead statement is "You can't fix stupid"?
You need to remind yourself of the serenity prayer: "Please God help me to have the courage to fix the things I can, the serenity to accept the things I can't, and the courage to know the difference."
that would be Ron "tater salad" White. I man I presonally can relate with. ;D
"Here's your sign" Is of course, Jeff Foxworthy.
However, If I here "git r done" anymore I will drown someone. (I belive it's Larry the cable guy who's does that bit)
anyhow, you migth be a redneck disgrunted spa dealer if....
8) ;D
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Again...Where did I "trash talk" anyone? My initial post was one what I heard over and over again at the home show.
Just about anyone that has worked a show knows what it means when the first words out of a customer’s mouth are "Where are these spas made?"
We have ads on the radio on a weekly basis with the local HS Company saying that you don't need chemicals in their spa....
As consumers would you rather I join the fray and come up with a deceptive pitch to counter? You should be happy that those things bother me and that I take jabs at them. ???
I'm the guy that asks the car next to me to turn their stereo down because it's irritating me and everyone else at the intersection. I'm that guy that will speak up if I'm in a non-smoking area and someone smokes. I give my seat to a woman that is standing and expect others to do the same. I will tell you to take your hat off in respect to my flag during the pledge of allegiance.
If that makes me a redneck then so be it...I will be proud of that.
We have created poor customer service as nation with our lack of speaking up. You don't want to be confrontational at a restaurant with poor service so when the cashier as "How was everything?" you just say, "Fine" and silently vow to never come back...I they don't hear it they wont fix it! How often do you walk past young kids smoking or doing something wrong and ignore it because "it's not your problem" and "it's not your kids"
Come on! If people are not selling on the merits of their product and company, say something! It will only make them better. If you care so much for a brand wouldn't you want them to get better at selling it? Do you enjoy the constant battle?
Drew,
Bill Engval did “Here’s your sign”
Term,
PM me before the Master Spa extravaganza and I will give you some info…
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that would be Ron "tater salad" White. I man I presonally can relate with. ;D
"Here's your sign" Is of course, Jeff Foxworthy.
Correction--that would be Bill Engvall's "Here's Your Sign" routine.....and a damn funny one, too! 8)
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Correction--that would be Bill Engvall's "Here's Your Sign" routine.....and a damn funny one, too! 8)
Thanks dog. :)
Guess, I need to wear my sign today. ::)
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most who come in have very little idea about what makes a spa worthy of the investment and depending and who and what they want to beleive....a quick example....we lost a sale to another dealer....lower price....a few months later the customers are back at our place looking for help.... it was spa/ gazebo package they bought...when I asked what the trouble was it was that they could not get the cover off their spa.....turns out the other "deal" was cheaper because the gazebo was to small for the spa....it fit inside but left to room for clearance for a lift and it made using the spa very diffcult.....it really opened my eyes as just how low some will go to make a supposed deal....I am speaking of the other dealer....anyway......I appreciate those contribute here to this board both from the dealers and consumers and again I say Thank you to you all....... :D
I was just wondering has any other dealers come across this before..or consumers how would you feel....I ask for others opinions because for me it was very eye opening.....You want to try and keep on a white hat....but when the guys around you are doing this type of thing.....how do you with creditability get this across to your customer without being the bad mouthing one......
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Mendo, I consider myself an educated consumer. There are very few things that I buy that I don't investigate and try to seek first hand opinions on. When my friends decide to buy things, they will ususally ask me because if I have what they want, I have done my homework before I bought it. This forum was the single most meaningful source of information in my hot tub purchase. on here we can ask stupid questions over and over and someone will be patient and help out. It is a totally different story when you are face to face and maybe someone is saying this deal is only good for today. Yeah yeah it has a good filter, uses less chemicals than brand X, but Leave your deposit today or you won't get this price ever again. ..I'll throw in 2 years worth of chemicals..Some people enjoy shopping like that, they are looking for deals, but not necessarily quality. If someone at a show or anywhere else said that to me, I would run. I need to think...There are customers out there who realize it is not all about the dollars, you do have to look deeper. There are many people who bend to the pressure and have terrible buyer remorse afterward. And others like the customer you are talking about, that gets shafted because of their own ignorance. I can bet that by helping this person, you will gain many more sales to more than make up for the one that you lost. I really think word of mouth, when it is positive, is your best friend. You really don't need to say anything in this case, the other dealer
has shown his true colors, let his stupidity speak for itself!
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Don't I know it. I saw them at a show and decided to check them out and the salesperson kept going on about how great their regional sales reps were and I was like "don't try to sell me swamp land, I know one of those MYTGEWFYCLEWS".
I have no idea what you wrote but I rest my case! ;)
I have no clue what that is but I bet Steve is one of those..... ;) ;D
Well...I was but I'm on meds now... :P
Steve
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Bubba Stu...
Don't get the blues, brother... Take that wolfman body of yours and hit the TUB!
BTW, just a thought, why not try selling spas at healthcare products or construction trade shows? Ya get a LOT of end users at those shows who CAN afford them and I guarantee if you show up with a working tub, a bunch of swimsuits and some fine looking sales "associates" demonstrating proper hot tub etiquette, WELL, you get the idea...
PS, my Artesian is STILL working fine.
Peace and Hot Water...
Drewski
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Whatever you do, DO NOT EXHIBIT SPAS AT THE SENIOR EXPO!!!
I made that mistake last year and will never repeat it. Busload after fussload of angry, bitter, scared folks who love to dump all over the hot tub parade.
"Who would take care of it for me?"
"I'd probably drown in one of those infernal contraptions!"
"How on earth would I get in and out?"
"I would never let anyone see me in a bathing suit!"
"Bathing in public is a sin."
I finally got so fed up, I told this one old geezer why didn't he just go on over to the Lakeview Memorial Cemetary booth and get on their waiting list. He called me a rude sumbitch and walked off. I did see him over in that direction later in the day.
Terminator
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Looks like its time to rant...so here I go.
All spas ARE NOT created equal!!!
I sell Sundance. If a customer brings up other QUALITY brands i.e. Hot Spring, Marquis, Jacuzzi Premium, D-1, etc....I will tell them that they are good tubs and then explain the benefits that a Sundance has. But don't expect me to reaffirm your attraction to a spa because "It has cool lights around the waterline"
I'm getting sick of people on this forum suggesting that the only thing that matters is the wet test.
What if Costco had one wet for me to try and I was comfortable in it.....it's still a piece of crap!! Narrow your choices according to quality, dealer, and budget (in that order!) then wet test.
The ONLY reason some manufacturers use TP.......FOAM COSTS $$$$$!!!!!
The ONLY reason some manufacturers don't use circ pumps.........PUMPS COST $$$$$$!!!!!
When you see my home show price is $500 off the regular price and my competitor has his marked down $4000 someone is lying, and it ain't me!
If you go to a home show and are just curious, tell the salesman that FIRST. I know that I would be more than happy to answer your questions if I had the time. IF!
Stuart, your posts recently have been dead on. Keep it up.
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Some of these replies want me to avoid the whole Hot tub area of my home show.
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We have ads on the radio on a weekly basis with the local HS Company saying that you don't need chemicals in their spa....
I have had HotSpring tubs for two decades and I have never put chems in them. I have my wife or kids do it.
But seriously, HotSpring doesn't condone telling people that their tubs will not need any chems. They do, however, train us to say, "with the Freshwater III System you can soak chlorine free."
Which is true: you SOAK chlorine free - and shock with MPS or you can do a Chlorine shock but just wait a day to get back into the tub.
Some of my customers were not hearing me right, so I have ammended the way I say it.
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I wish you many returns from your efforts at the show, who knows maybe that huge "be back bus" will pull up in front of your store. I hope so, God Bless!
-SpaMan~
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Looks like its time to rant...so here I go.
All spas ARE NOT created equal!!!
I sell Sundance.
And I bet you don't care if I don't like Sundance. That's how it is spose to work.
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To each his own I suppose. :)
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The ONLY reason some manufacturers use TP.......FOAM COSTS $$$$$!!!!!
There are other reasons to use tp....I'll not recite them since this has been so thoroughly beaten to death.
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There are other reasons, but the FACT is full foam costs more, meaning so-called thermal pane costs less to manufacture.
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There are other reasons, but the FACT is full foam costs more, meaning so-called thermal pane costs less to manufacture.
Are you sure your facts are absolutely correct? One could speculate that mfrs use full foam to skimp on the shell, making it actually less expensive to make a FF spa than a well designed TP spa whose shell needs no foam to support and no other supports under the seats. But what the hell do I know. I'm just a stupid consumer..... ;D
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Now that's what I'm talking about!!! Because you own a spa you want to seen as an expert on your brand! I own a BMW Cycle but I know far less about it then the mechanic at the Honda dealership that works on all brands. Staying at a holiday inn express doesn’t really give you knowledge!
No but as an owner, I can give an opinion on my observations and performance of the spa. Primarily how it performs in relation to what you yourself state is important – clean hot water, good jets and comfy seats, which is generally where I stay. You don’t hear me rant on about 20 year life expectancy or “TP is the best”.
Do you think Arctic invented Thermopane insulation?
Do you think they engineered that equipment pack or invented the cedar wood cabinet? Fact is that most of the things they have one that spa are ideas taken from other brands.
Nope – spas have been around for some time. They’re in an evolutionary state. However, spa mfrs may work with other companies to mfr parts to their specifications that may perform differently than off the shelf equipment used by the bargain basement guys. Heck they may even engineer their own parts on occasion.
I've seen hundreds of spas with similar features...some last some don't but I've seen them fail and survive at most levels. You've seen your spa…How many wooden rails have you fixed on spas? How many cabinet doors of the same design have you repaired? Do you have any idea how many motors failed on the first brands of TP spas because they never cooled and stayed in constant overheat condition? Do you think they did that in the first 3 years? I promise you that your motors stand a better chance of failure by the 5-year mark than many others but you wouldn't know that because you haven't gotten to that point.
Nope I haven’t got there yet. My primary concern when wet testing were the jets and seats. If the motors fail within 5 years, I’m covered by warranty. If they fail sometime thereafter, I’d still rather have my seats and jets, given what I felt was vastly superior feel and comfort.
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Do you have any idea how heavy all of those 6 inch covers will get when they begin to water log?
Guess I’ll have to wait and see how heavy that 5”-4” cover gets. Guess I’ll also have to see if it was marketing speak regarding how quickly they take on water since each core is cast whole and not cut and thus not leaving a more porous exposed edge.
Are you that blinded to see that I have no problem with your relationship with your spa or brand? I have a problem with how they have been marketed for the last few years. Your spa is not the problem, the quality is not the problem, the attitude of many dealers and the way the factory allows and perhaps encourages sales is. Do you have an identity problem that makes you think your employed by Arctic in some way?
Nah, I don’t think I’m employed by them. Far from it. I happen to think it’s a fine tub with great jets and comfy seats. Since that usually gets lost quickly in any Arctic thread, that is the point I usually add.
You know plenty, you know a lot about your spa and your have a mild knowledge of the few tubs you wet tested but that's it.
The mild knowledge I have is again what folks here keep saying is important – how the spa feels. Sure it’s my opinion and it’s stated that way regarding jet feel and pressure
I test drove several cars before I bought my SUV but that doesn’t make me Ralph Nader.
God I hope not! But you could sure have some strong opinions on which ones handle well, accelerate well, i.e. perform well. Just as I do regarding the spas I tested.
Your right your formed an opinion...that's all it is, your opinion! You have yet to dissect the industry enough for it to be solid fact. You’re on a journey to that knowledge and this site is part of that but your still a long way from many who have been trekking that road most of their lives.
And these forums are great for disseminating opinions, along with experience and occasionally relevant facts.
My agenda is the bottom line? What is it that you think I get paid for here? I’ve spent countless hours here helping people on brands that I don’t give a crap about because they felt they had no where else to turn. I’ve called factories, dealerships and even component manufactures to help people on this forum and it didn’t get me a thing! When’s the last time you called a competitor up to help one of their customers for no personal gain? I do it all the time here.
I said dealers, not you specifically. If you recall, I actually commented that I found most of your posts informative and helpful.
Where is it that you get that I have contempt for my customers? By me questioning the rudeness of some people at a show? Let me ask you something…Because I make a joking comment about the spa brand you bought, you feel that you can justify attacking me and a brand that you know little to nothing about? Are you OK with the potential that your attitude could take food off of my table? I have no choice but to take this dead serious, it’s my livelihood….It’s your hobby.
Based on prior rather caustic comments from you, I didn’t take it as joking. I wasn’t the only one as I read through the posts.
Next week for grins lets get into a discussion about what you do for a living, your obviously bored with it if you spend so much time trying to dominate mine…
Yep I’m down to 2-4 posts per week on average (except this week) and I’m really trying to dominate the industry. ::)
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Looks like its time to rant...so here I go.
I'm getting sick of people on this forum suggesting that the only thing that matters is the wet test.
Is it the only thing? Nope, but it should be number one. Your Maxxus is a pretty slick tub. Had we purchased it, we'd be pretty unhappy with it and it would get nowhere near the use of our Tundra. Why? It didn't fit us. Your Optima is a nice spa also. It was probably #2 behind the Tundra. But the wife fit in more of the Tundra seats due to the sculpted seating. She had more to brace against to limit float. The ONLY way to know these things is to wet test. It does no good to buy a "quality" spa if it doesn't meet your needs. You won't get the use out of it.
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Stuart...you are allowed to trash talk any brand you want. If Rex gets hurt tough s**t I also could care less what brand anyone owns for that matter and if they feel they need to constantly justify there purchase and we are not allowed to say one is a piece of junk and another is terribly built something is wrong. I just think it's funny how I get blasted for trash talking Arctic even though I never do and yet there are a few Arctic guys who instead of coming around and saying "they think Arctic is fine" they continualy jump in and say they are tired of us trash talking Arctic.
Well guess what. I could give a rip what you think. I can trash talk any brand I want!!!
Man this gets sickening, bunch of baby.
It doesn't hurt my feelings and what goes around comes around. I generally post positive comments about Arctic regarding the seats and jets in the spa I own. But I also see nothing wrong with responding to BS anti-Arctic rhetoric that invariably gets tossed into any Arctic discussion, solicited or otherwise. At least you've sat in a Tundra and can legitimately express an opinion from it. I'd venture to guess most have not. And while some here claim it's the marketing and not the spa, the threads don't read that way.
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Oh my god, that was funny. I can't stop laughing thinking about the old people. That made my head ache go away.........
Whatever you do, DO NOT EXHIBIT SPAS AT THE SENIOR EXPO!!!
I made that mistake last year and will never repeat it. Â Busload after fussload of angry, bitter, scared folks who love to dump all over the hot tub parade.
"Who would take care of it for me?"
"I'd probably drown in one of those infernal contraptions!"
"How on earth would I get in and out?"
"I would never let anyone see me in a bathing suit!"
"Bathing in public is a sin."
I finally got so fed up, I told this one old geezer why didn't he just go on over to the Lakeview Memorial Cemetary booth and get on their waiting list. Â He called me a rude sumbitch and walked off. Â I did see him over in that direction later in the day.
Terminator
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Can somebody please start a new board for stl-rex so that he can keep writing to himself in peace. You probably have the most efficient tub around buddy and I'm happy for you. You will probably save about $80.00 per year in heating cost over my Epic and I'm happy for you. Hopefully your equipment will withstand the heat from your non Canadian cooler climate so that you will be happy and that I can be happy for you too. Last but not least, I wist that seat fit you a bit better so that you could spend even more time out there.
Steve :)
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I can see that stl-rex is very biased in his opinions. I looked and tested a lot of tubs before my wife and I bought. She is only 5'3" tall. And we wanted a tub that wouldn't "float her" out of her seat. Say what you must, but its very clear you didn't test the maxxus. All the seats but one have wrist jets, All the seats have foot jets, which she can brace with to keep her down into the seat if she has it on high. But its very simple to regulate the flow knob to reduce the flow to your liking. Yes there are other tubs that are very nice. But to say the Maxxus doesn't fit, shows you didn't do your homework well enough. I believe its more about cost than features that turns off a potential buyer. I can't see how seats could be made better to fit. Hammer if you must, but it just shows me stl-rex, you would complain about the new rope these dealers are going to put around you.
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There are other reasons, but the FACT is full foam costs more, meaning so-called thermal pane costs less to manufacture.
If you could explain the difference between "thermal pane" and "so called thermal pane" maybe I can follow your line of thought. I'm having to assume that the "so called thermal pane" to which you refer is nothing more than a poor implementation of thermal pane which has no more to do with ff v. tp than "so called ff" v. "so called tp". Or maybe you think there is no such thing as a poor implementation of ff and no such thing as a good implementaion of tp. Face it, your myopic view of this debate prevents you from seeing any benefit to tp so why not just come out and say it sucks and there is absolutely no benefit at all to tp--that it is inherently inferior and anyone who believes otherwise may be up for a Darwin award soon?
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This is the kind of stuff that takes the effectiveness of this forum away from consumers.
I feel bad for you sales guys. You have a very tough job out there. You need to learn to deal with a variety of different people with different expectations. You are insulted day after day with bargining and shoppers that think that they are informed. You get frustrated with the same questions over and over and the constant, (hearassment) of aggressive consumers.
I feel bad for consumers that purchase products that they do and read non stop negative reviews from dealers alike.
I feel bad for the misinformed consumer that wants to come here for information and to share their excitement. I feel bad that individuals here take a topic and direct it to the old debates over and over.
I feel bad that every time a certain product is mentioned, a negative spin results from it and the first thing that dealer competitors say in defence is that "tell me where I insulted, or slammed the product". Lets fac it, there have been several posts, with comments made that puts people on defence. Yeah they may not be a flat out slam, but you know what you are getting at.
The bottom line here folks is that this is your job. You appeal to the consumer and thats that. We are what keep you in buisness, food on your table and all that jazz. In return, you give us a lifestyle that allows for relaxation and enjoyment. We are not asking for you to be our friends, we are asking for you to support our product that we purchased off of you. Thats it.
I may not sell spas, however, I am in the ultimate profession of customer service. If I have a bad day, the public does not care, if I disagree with something, I dont get to disagree or avoid doing the task. I do it because it is my job and that is whay I am paid to do.
Do you think that I like sitting infront of dead people for hours, or the odours that are associated to a dead person found in a heat wave after six weeks. do you think that I like pulling a 1 year old child out of a vehicle that has passed along. Do you think that I love getting poked with needles, bit, spit on, and yelled at. do you think that I like going and watching a person burn alive in a car, and I cant do anything to help. Do you think that I enjoy going to work not knowing if it is my last day that I see my child. That means nothing to people, because they only care about me doing my job. And to me, all I care about is providing for my family.
I am probably the worst guy here, I always get pissed when I read slams to arctic, I am guilty of it and I admit it. Stuart, it is great that you have a place to vent, I find it enjoyable. I vent too, with my shift mates after work over cold beer. Thats the only way I can get through it. the difference here is that you get the support of neutral people and other dealers in your situation. you also open yourself up to the anger of people that feel that they have been offended by your comments. I only choose to vent with those that understand me. thats where you made an error in my opinnion.
I love this sight, because you get opinions from everyone. the downside of this, is that it creates conflicts as we can all see.
we just need to learn not to take them as an attack, rather as information sharing.
I will pass on the words that my training officer said to me after my first critical incident. "You good? suck it up and never let them see it get to you"
hot tubs are fun, lets enjoy them and our time here.
Post away, hey tman you notice, I kept to my agreement, no jumping in about my tub!!!!!!! 8)
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For what it's worth, I respect what you do a great deal Bosco. Many years ago I tried to get into the police force here but failed the physical, got a 1 year deferral and din't go back. If there was one job I could pick, it would be yours and hell...I'd be willing to take the pay cut even! ;) Sad but true. Cops should make WAY more money than they do...
Great post at keeping things in perspective...
In closing, BUY A HOT TUB AND ENJOY ALL THE BENEFITS IT OFFERS YOU. PEACE OF MIND AND TOTAL RELAXATION FOR THE MIND, BODY AND SOUL!!
I give a sh*t whether it's FF or not... :)
Steve
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There are other reasons, but the FACT is full foam costs more, meaning so-called thermal pane costs less to manufacture.
We buy more Coleman spas than Jacuzzi spas, yet the Jacuzzi spas cost us less.
So that logic doesn't add up at all does it.... :P
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Hymbow, you are an ignorant FF shill.
Stick your circpump up your butt and start digging for the leak, punk
Time to send this thread to the scrap heap!
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I agree with many here that this post has evolved into something ugly.
I still do not believe Stuart's comment was an Arctic slam. He was receipting something I hear time and again from shoppers in my show room and at home shows.
Fact: Arctic sales people (trained by factory representatvies) are trained to say that a tub built in a cold climate will be more efficient and hold up better in a cold climate.
It does not hurt my sales position, because my tubs are made in Canada too.
I do automatically know that when someone makes a comment like that, it was a seed planted by the Arctic guy. Anyone that has Arctic as a competitor locally or at a show, can confirm this.
Is it right to say this? Is it wrong? I will not comment on that.
I will say, what Stuart presented was a short sample of a conversation he had over and over again at a home show. He found it amusing / frustrating.
If you re-read his post, after the 4 sample customers:
I could not begin to tell you some of the stupid questions, angry remarks and lies I heard….
Did you get that? He did not say any of the above stories or people were stupid.
SO, someone reads the words Arctic, customer and stupid all in the same long post and decide they should connect them and attack.
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Fact: Arctic sales people (trained by factory representatvies) are trained to say that a tub built in a cold climate will be more efficient and hold up better in a cold climate.
It's also the mantra of a deranged man in CO.
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"Time to send this thread to the scrap heap! "
Because you obviously agree with hymbow's statement.
So when somebody rebutts him, and has a different opinion than you (yeah it was a crude rebuttal, but he deserved it), we must scrap the conversation eh?
It gets really tiring having to defend TP design here with the obviously biased FF majority here.
Oh, by the way, can I get your shortlist of the best spas again TUO?
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(yeah it was a crude rebuttal, but he deserved it)
Few people deserve to have a circ pump shoved up their butt....
Terminator
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"Time to send this thread to the scrap heap! "
Because you obviously agree with hymbow's statement.
Rick,
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing (and giving reasons for one's opinion) but when we resort to insightful posts which include " you are an ignorant FF shill.
Stick your circpump up your butt and start digging for the leak, punk" it is my opinion the thread has outgrown it's usefullness. Now I'm not the moderator and I'm not going to send any messages asking for it to be moved so you can continue venting all you want as far as i care. I'm not sure where the anger comes from but you do what you have to do.
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Rick,
There is nothing wrong with disagreeing (and giving reasons for one's opinion) but when we resort to insightful posts which include " you are an ignorant FF shill.
Stick your circpump up your butt and start digging for the leak, punk" it is my opinion the thread has outgrown it's usefullness. Now I'm not the moderator and I'm not going to send any messages asking for it to be moved so you can continue venting all you want as far as i care. I'm not sure where the anger comes from but you do what you have to do.
I agree. Too much venum. Kill this thread before it gets more out of hand.
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Kill it just because of one igorant post? Take my cir. pump away and I take you away! Remember its just his opinion. Geeks don't need a sign around their necks for everyone to know they are a geek. On the railroad we called them moons.
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I agree. Too much venum. Kill this thread before it gets more out of hand.
I think your right to kill it ,,it's been rough from the start
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Hey,
I just bought an Arctic tub from a show.......... :)
Am I doomed for eternity in spa Hell??????????? ......or just Hell on this forum??? ;D
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You probably have the most efficient tub around buddy and I'm happy for you. You will probably save about $80.00 per year in heating cost over my Epic and I'm happy for you. Hopefully your equipment will withstand the heat from your non Canadian cooler climate so that you will be happy and that I can be happy for you too. Steve :)
I’m so happy you want to be happy for me. I’m trying to figure out where the $80 comment came from. I don’t recall ever claiming any savings over any other brand regarding operating costs.
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I can see that stl-rex is very biased in his opinions. I looked and tested a lot of tubs before my wife and I bought. She is only 5'3" tall. And we wanted a tub that wouldn't "float her" out of her seat. Say what you must, but its very clear you didn't test the maxxus. All the seats but one have wrist jets, All the seats have foot jets, which she can brace with to keep her down into the seat if she has it on high. But its very simple to regulate the flow knob to reduce the flow to your liking. Yes there are other tubs that are very nice. But to say the Maxxus doesn't fit, shows you didn't do your homework well enough. I believe its more about cost than features that turns off a potential buyer. I can't see how seats could be made better to fit. Hammer if you must, but it just shows me stl-rex, you would complain about the new rope these dealers are going to put around you.
The fact is we sat in three wet SD models. Max, Optima, and Bahia. The folks at SD were even so kind as to offer her a water filled pillow to help keep her from drowning. Sure you can turn flow down, but then what does that get you – less therapy? Why compromise if you don’t have to? So let me repeat – the Maxxus didn’t fit. The wrist jets were more like palm/finger jets; they were set too far out. Since the foot-dome wasn’t centered in this rectangular tub, it was useless for the seats facing the same direction as the lounge and even at that it seemed to be positioned farther away from the primary therapy seat than in the Optima. The Optima was a much better fit than the Maxxus. I’d say we gave it a fair chance. Perhaps you should do a little more homework before suggesting someone a liar. The fact is we wet tested models from SD, HotSprings, Jacuzzi, Arctic, Caldera, Master, D1 and a friends CalSpa. After which we decided on the Arctic. I'd say that should clear up any misconceptions of how much work we put into selecting a spa.
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Hey,
I just bought an Arctic tub from a show.......... :)
Am I doomed for eternity in spa Hell??????????? ......or just Hell on this forum??? ;D
Congrats! What did you pick-up?
By the way, you won't be doomed as long as you have nothing nice to say about your spa and don't get irritated when others try to pick the brand you selected apart. ;) Other than that this is a great forum and if you have water problems or general questions you will find the folks here quite helpful. ;D
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Hey,
I just bought an Arctic tub from a show.......... :)
Am I doomed for eternity in spa Hell??????????? ......or just Hell on this forum??? ;D
You just might be doomed for spa Hell....or just maybe spa Heaven ......depends on who your sharing your spa with..... ;)
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You just might be doomed for spa Hell....or just maybe spa Heaven ......depends on who your sharing your spa with..... ;)
and what they're wearing (or not wearing :o ) and what kind of whiskey you take with you.
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This should get some hacles up. If you aren't BUYING a hot tub, then by all means, avoid the area.
Some of these replies want me to avoid the whole Hot tub area of my home show.
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This should get some hacles up. If you aren't BUYING a hot tub, then by all means, avoid the area.
Be careful Wisoki, I posted a scarcastic message regarding the dealings with customers at a show, and my ethics and morals as a business owner were questioned. ::) God forbid someone have a little fun around here.
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The fact is we sat in three wet SD models. Max, Optima, and Bahia. The folks at SD were even so kind as to offer her a water filled pillow to help keep her from drowning.............The fact is we wet tested models from SD, HotSprings, Jacuzzi, Arctic, Caldera, Master, D1 and a friends CalSpa. After which we decided on the Arctic. I'd say that should clear up any misconceptions of how much work we put into selecting a spa.
How diligent of you, but the point is how much work others put in to your efforts to water test all of those spas. I would certainly hope that you at least thanked them for their interest and efforts, as many don't even think to do so.
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Yeah, I just read it, lol, what do I care? I'm a salesman, I make money by selling things, not by making friends and having a chat. I don't sell, I dont eat, and God knows I LOVE to eat!
Be careful Wisoki, I posted a scarcastic message regarding the dealings with customers at a show, and my ethics and morals as a business owner were questioned. ::) God forbid someone have a little fun around here.
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How diligent of you, but the point is how much work others put in to your efforts to water test all of those spas. I would certainly hope that you at least thanked them for their interest and efforts, as many don't even think to do so.
Actually, I appreciated and acknowledged everyone's hospitality at each location. While there were a couple of rotten eggs in the bunch, the others were quite pleasant and accomodating (although we never did have to do an after hours test) and the overall experience was a positive one. I would also say most appreciated talking with a person who had done up front research and had an idea for what they were looking. There were no "where is this spa made" questions.
Although I did on occasion check if anyone else did have DAITT ;D
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I get that question EVERY day. We have a local manufacturer here, and apparently their number one selling point is that ther spas are assembled here in Indy. Quite funny actually!
There were no "where is this spa made" questions.
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I get that question EVERY day. We have a local manufacturer here, and apparently their number one selling point is that ther spas are assembled here in Indy. Quite funny actually!
I dont get why that is a issue with dealers.?. It seems simple to answer, give the benefit of your location, and then move on to your presentation. In our sales process we get asked the same questions by different customers all the time. I must be missing something about that recurring question
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Because customers pose the question as if to imply if your spa is not built in a place to their likiing then it must not be worth the ammount you are asking or any price, for that matter.
I dont get why that is a issue with dealers.?. It seems simple to answer, give the benefit of your location, and then move on to your presentation. In our sales process we get asked the same questions by different customers all the time. I must be missing something about that recurring question
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I get that question EVERY day. We have a local manufacturer here, and apparently their number one selling point is that ther spas are assembled here in Indy. Quite funny actually!
Why is it funny? I think I missed the point?
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It is a funny question because, it makes absolutly ZERO difference where your spa is built so long as it is a quality product. What difference will it make if your spa is built in San Diego, Los Angeles, Indianapolis, Des Moins, or a city in Canada if the manufacturer uses cheap parts. None. That is why it is a funny question. Now, I could have said stupid question, but I didn't I said funny question.
Why is it funny? I think I missed the point?
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It is a funny question because, it makes absolutly ZERO difference where your spa is built so long as it is a quality product. What difference will it make if your spa is built in San Diego, Los Angeles, Indianapolis, Des Moins, or a city in Canada if the manufacturer uses cheap parts. None. That is why it is a funny question. Now, I could have said stupid question, but I didn't I said funny question.
I wasn't sure if you ment "Funny" as in "ha ha That's a funny joke" or Funny as in "Odd. Terms feet sure do smell funny", or given the tone lately around here, I could see some folks giving me the "Funny? Funny how, like a clown? Do I ammuse you? Do I make you laugh? Blam! Blam! Ozinator up the butt!"
I took it as if they were going to buy a hot tub, they'd see value in supporting local industry. And as someone else mentioned, Location does affect cost. And if they ask, it maybe that they are curious, or it's something that's important to them. I don't think it makes "ZEROE" Difference, espcially if they ask.
;)
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Terms feet sure do smell funny
;)
Hmmm....you're the second person who's told me that today.
Terminator
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A hackle is the feathers in the back (?) of a chicken's neck ... they use these feathers for fly fishing "flies".
Wow, I never even knew chickens knew how to fly fish...
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Wow, I never even knew chickens knew how to fly fish...
You should see them cast. They wind they necks back and "Flingggggggggggggg"!!!!!!! Craziest thing I've ever seen. Of course they have a heck of a time reeling the fish in!
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Is the question "funny ha-ha" or "funny peculiar".
When you get a "funny peculiar" question, it calls for an answer. If you don't answer the consumer, it immediately tells them that you are being evasive. If you answer it directly and honestly, it turns a switch of in their mind and they go to the next question. The customer is not helping you and you are not helping the customer. But, typically, this shopper is smarter than the average bear.
The only problem is, when that switch gets turned off, he didn't really get the truth, but he got his answer. If some local maker wants to give all the reasons why buying local or north of the border, and it make sense to him, he could talk to Americas Bet Hot Tub and because it is made elsewhere it dosen't qualify to his logical standards. He doesn't want an explanation, he wants the location, decision made.
The same is true about price, "How much is this one right here", you tell the person and the switch turns of, decision made. Maybe they want or don't want some of the optional features he can choose from included or not included, but if you counter with, "how much do you want to spend", the discussion is over and he walks out.
There is definitly an art to selling and it is called psychology. It is all about the way the mind works, and who believes what. That is why East Tx spent 3 full days in a selling seminar on how to sell when, presumeably he already knows how to sell. Are you aware that people will put more credibility on what they read in a sign, than what the salesperson says. Why is that, when the sign tells a lie? ???
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Ozinator up the butt!"
I laughed out loud at this comment Drew. This week has been unique
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Amen to that!
Terminator
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Hey Stuart...I thought your post was funny!!
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Time to send this thread to the scrap heap!
Yup, The very offensive post removed. (I checked the authors history and this seemed to be out of character, so deleting it will be all for now)
Geez people, sit back, take a breath and calm down. Even if spas are your life it isn't nessesary to defend your point of view to the death. There are worse things in life than misleading claims.
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"Time to send this thread to the scrap heap! "
It gets really tiring having to defend TP design here with the obviously biased FF majority here.
THat is the kind of thinking that turns these threads into novels. Chill, step back, let it go, the world moves on.
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Yup, The very offensive post removed. (I checked the authors history and this seemed to be out of character, so deleting it will be all for now)
Geez people, sit back, take a breath and calm down. Even if spas are your life it isn't nessesary to defend your point of view to the death. There are worse things in life than misleading claims.
I checked as well not understanding why he jumped down a couple of our throats seemingly from out of nowhere. Then I saw he was upset with a couple of us last April in a thread and I guess he didn't forget and it took a while for the steam to build back up.
Let's consider this horse dead and on it's way to Europe to be someone's dinner.
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Hey Stuart...I thought your post was funny!!
Thanks, so did I... 8)
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I thought Stuart's original post was very humorous myself. I didn't have time to read all the banter. I'm not sure what went wrong here. ???
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Geez, all this over a can of water?
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Geez, all this over a can of water?
luckily it was only water...remember what happened with that tea incident??? just kidding ;D
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well, at least it was tea and not scotch.
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well, at least it was tea and not scotch.
could you imagine the outcry if it was scotch??? i am happy i live in a more civilized time ;D
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Yeah, I can just see this further de-generating into a Single malt VS Blended Scotch debate.
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Yeah, I can just see this further de-generating into a Single malt VS Blended Scotch debate.
single malt as in mickeys or ol' english???
ill take some rum please ;D
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Rum? Scoth? ???
I'll take some Canadian Rye Whiskey! Preferably Weiser's Deluxe 10 year old...and a twist of lime and a splash of ginger ale.
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Rum? Scoth? ???
I'll take some Canadian Rye Whiskey! Preferably Weiser's Deluxe 10 year old...and a twist of lime and a splash of ginger ale.
lime and ginger ale??? kind of kills the taste of whiskey dont it?? ;) ;D
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Preferably Weiser's Deluxe 10 year old...and a twist of lime and a splash of ginger ale.
??? :( :'(
McCallan 18 year old scotch on the rocks or Booker's on the rocks. No ginger or lime or pixie sticks, PLEASE! ;)
Terminator
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Thanks, so did I... 8)
In the spirit it was intended so did I. Having been involved with the internet, email, and forums for more than 20 years, some people are just learning how easy it is to misjudge electronic communication and fly off the handle.
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??? :( :'(
McCallan 18 year old scotch on the rocks or Booker's on the rocks. No ginger or lime or pixie sticks, PLEASE! ;)
Terminator
I would have to go with the McCallan. Bookers gives a whole new meaning to the word smooth at 126% alcohol. And that would be 1 rock at the most. Had some Johnny Blue a short time ago. Very smooth. Had to do that neat. Even comped it against my std Glenlevit and it really was superior. "Everyday" - it's Jameson.
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Bookers gives a whole new meaning to the word smooth at 126% alcohol.
You ain't kidding. First time I had it, I thought it was gonna light me up. Went down like Kool-Aid (not the Arctic kind ;D)
Terminator
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I would have to go with the McCallan. Bookers gives a whole new meaning to the word smooth at 126% alcohol. And that would be 1 rock at the most. Had some Johnny Blue a short time ago. Very smooth. Had to do that neat. Even comped it against my std Glenlevit and it really was superior. "Everyday" - it's Jameson.
Gotta be 126 proof, not percent.
yea, I'm nit picking.
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yea, I'm nit picking.
If not you, then who?
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lime and ginger ale??? kind of kills the taste of whiskey dont it?? ;) ;D
I need to add something so I don't drink it too fast.
;D
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Gotta be 126 proof, not percent.
yea, I'm nit picking.
But you never do that....
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I need to add something so I don't drink it too fast.
;D
i know what you mean. also dont get "happy" as fast ;D
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But you never do that....
Never ever.
::) 8)
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Gavulnized steel cost more and wood cost less yet the tub with the Gavulnized steel cost more
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Gavulnized steel cost more and wood cost less yet the tub with the Gavulnized steel cost more
Did I miss something here...??? ??? ??? ??? ???
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had something to do with 126 proof :-/
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Gavulnized steel cost more and wood cost less yet the tub with the Gavulnized steel cost more
Brulan,
You have a fresh start here. Try to control yourself.
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Thought I would do my best in getting this to 10 pages. I have the Artic sales manual. Anyone want a copy?
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Did I miss something here...??? ??? ??? ??? ???
It's called a Brulan Hijack.