Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Jakeman on March 01, 2005, 10:07:07 pm

Title: Swim Spas
Post by: Jakeman on March 01, 2005, 10:07:07 pm
Anybody have any info on swimspas? I know d1 has some & Hydropool has one. Has anybody ever tried any of these? Looking for some excercise & hot tub, what are the benefits? of drawbacks of having them built in the same unit?
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: stuart on March 02, 2005, 07:34:25 am
Quote
Anybody have any info on swimspas? I know d1 has some & Hydropool has one. Has anybody ever tried any of these? Looking for some excercise & hot tub, what are the benefits? of drawbacks of having them built in the same unit?

The D1 incorporates a lot more than just swimming so they call their units Aquatic Fitness Systems. I looked at just about everything before bringing them on my showroom floor and originally took on the D1 line because I was so impressed with the AFS. I would be happy to send you a DVD on the benefits and they only drawback I can think of is the sheer amount of time you will ignore your television because you have one of these! (Oh, and the need to buy a new wardrobe from the great exercise!) ;) ;) 8)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 02, 2005, 10:14:25 am
In my grand opinion, the only type of swimspa worth owning is the type which moves the entire body of water, to actually make you swim.  The ones which use a hydro jet or group of hydro jets simply move too little water to do what should be considered 'swimming.' They are more like jogging in place or leaning against a breeze.

I have seen many of these types of units on display at trade shows being demonstrated by one person all day. They use a very slow crawl stroke with no flutter kick and can easily out swim the 'current.'  

But then you get to another display, this time a unit which moves the entire body of water via a paddlewheel or something similar, and you see a demonstrator actually working hard with a full stroke and flutter kick just to keep  in the middle of the unit. And you also see a group of demonstrators puffing and blowing, walking around wrapped cooling off from their short demos.... the difference is obvious.

There are a couple of brands with which I am familiar, but there may be others available where you live.

Swimex  (http://www.swimex.com/index.html) has a return channel built in under the floor so the water makes one pass through the swimming area and then returns to the other end of the unit. Very controlable, very safe, very fast if you want it to be.

(http://www.swimex.com/images/aquatic/lowerleft2.gif)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: stuart on March 02, 2005, 12:13:40 pm
Chas buddy! You really should try an AFS out! I would be happy to set you up with a demo knowing that it's just for curiosity! Your pretty close to one of the stores that have a couple full will all the exercise attachments. If you ever get a spare moment I would love to get you to hope in one and then post the outcome.

Heck I would even buy dinner for you and your lovely wife that night for your trouble and might even be tempted to fly out for the honor of showing it to you myself!

The sheer level of fitness that you can achieve in an AFS is unequaled by anything else in the industry. It is the only spa I know that is allows the ability to circuit train and swim both with that much variety of different exercises. I think that these units are the forerunners to what we will see many companies attempt in the future.

The swimex unit would most certainly be easier for the beginner but pretty limited in what you can do. With very little practice the AFS can help you become a very good swimmer and extremely fit with no impact on your joints!!
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 02, 2005, 12:39:50 pm
Quote
In my grand opinion, the only type of swimspa worth owning is the type which moves the entire body of water, to actually make you swim.  The ones which use a hydro jet or group of hydro jets simply move too little water to do what should be considered 'swimming.' They are more like jogging in place or leaning against a breeze.


Though I don't expect you to be totally aware of the operation and function of these swim spas as you don't sell them Chas, your perception of what is needed is incorrect. It lends itself to the same philosophy as a spa needing 80 jets in order to be therapeutic. Let me explain;

The act of swimming for exercise is something we would want in a way that allows us to maintain a strong, steady stroke. One of the largest complaints in some of these swim spas is the amount of turbulence they generate. A properly designed swim spa will offer a powerful stream designed at hitting you at each shoulder and under your chest and divert the water to the massage seats and eliminating the backwash that many paddlewheel swim spas have. It will give the water the ability to move in a way that doesn't inhibit the swimmers stroke and allows them to stay centered in the spa. I don't blame you for being unaware of the principles as I was to prior to becoming a Hydropool Rep.

Quote
I have seen many of these types of units on display at trade shows being demonstrated by one person all day. They use a very slow crawl stroke with no flutter kick and can easily out swim the 'current.'


A very strong swimmer could out-swim any swim spa initially. That's not the point. These are designed for exercise and if I put you in a Hydropool swim spa and you swam for 10 minutes, you would be exhausted by the end of it as most of us couldn't last longer than 15 or 20 minutes. After 5 minutes, you couldn't out swim them if you tried unless you were an athlete of sorts. Hydropool has many units that are used by professional sports teams (2-Toronto Maple Leafs, New York Nicks) and are used by a number of Olympic athletes for training purposes. If what you had mentioned was true in any way, these professionals wouldn't be indorsing them nor using them in the capacity in which they are.

Quote
But then you get to another display, this time a unit which moves the entire body of water via a paddlewheel or something similar, and you see a demonstrator actually working hard with a full stroke and flutter kick just to keep  in the middle of the unit.


Exactly my point. This exercise should be no different than swimming laps in a pool and not similar to swimming in a tsunami.

To give a true comparison to the swimex model, I’ll give you this.
-Hydropool has 2 therapy seats in the back corners of the swim spa with 8 therapy jets each. Swimex does not though it is optional.
- Our amp draw requires a 50 amp service. Swimex is either 85, 105 or 135. Ouch…
- Hydropool has a topload pressurized filtration system used by all swimming pools today. Swimex does not.
- Hydropool offers a complete cedar cabinet for above ground installations. Swimex does not.
- Hydropool comes standard with an underwater light. Swimex does not.
- Hydropool has an optional insulated, lockable hardcover. Swimex does not.
- The base price of a Hydropool starts at $15,700 US. Swimex base model is $21,900.

It’s interesting when you really get fully trained on these things and though it has similarities to what we know in spas, the technology is much different and the concept of creating a true swim lane can really be misunderstood. Thanks for bringing this topic up Jakeman and if there’s anything I can do to help, please let me know. I’m in the business of swim spas and can provide the information you will need to make this a great purchase. I look forward to hearing from you.

Learn even more about Hydropool’s Swim Spas (http://www.hydropoolhottubs.com/swimspas.html
)

(http:// http://www.hydropoolhottubs.com/Hydropool.data/Components/comercial/comimgs/com09.jpg )




Steve

Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Drifter on March 02, 2005, 01:28:15 pm
Endless Pools makes a good product from what I've seen but I can tell you this when you look at one of these you really have to consider the installation price. I know from posts on other boards the cost of installation can easily exceed the cost of the unit, which is surprising since they are priced 20k and up. My thought is for the total investment you could have a regular pool put in and get your self a membership to a local indoor pool for the off season months. Besides I'm a competitive swimmer and swimming in one place couldn't be more boring. You don't want to spend 40k and then 3 months later be treating it like the exercise bike that now clutters up your basement! ;D
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 02, 2005, 01:58:19 pm
Good point Drifter. I know that many put them on a concrete pad and build a deck around them. Others will dig a hole and backfill to have them inground. Some are inside a solarium and to be honest, that's the only application that could see being $20 G's that I could imagine.

There's many choices including just a cedar skirt as well but I think most applications are quite reasonable. I've seen some amazing spa applications as well and like those, it just depends on the person and what they want. Keep in mind that these are basically the size of 2 hot tubs and can be installed in a similar to fashion. Installations costs would represent maybe a 1/4 of the total cost on average.

Steve

Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Spatech_tuo on March 02, 2005, 02:24:18 pm
Quote
Hydropool has many units that are used by professional sports teams (2-Toronto Maple Leafs)

Steve



These 2 might be available on eBay pretty soon.
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: HotTubMan on March 02, 2005, 02:31:16 pm
One should not discount the benefits of other exercises in these "swim spas".

One can swim a far greater distance in water than one can run. In a swim spa you can get some high impact resitance while standing/running. This also releives a great deal of the stress on the back and kness that running on pavement/concrete gives.

Some like D-1's AFS also have places to attach apparatice for resistence training for the whole body.

Steve & Chas....Play nice ;)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 02, 2005, 02:55:04 pm
That's right HTM. Our Aquaplay units have a harness which allows all aspects of resistance.

As far as "playing nice", I'm mearly pointing out that there are factors that Chas may not be aware of when it comes to swim spas. I'm not saying that he can't share his opinions as we all know Chas has a great deal of knowledge in spas. I don't question that for second and I think he knows that.
The fact remains that I do have the knowledge with swim spas which extends to most models available and this was my reason for the comparison. That's all...nothing else... :-/

Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Mendocino101 on March 02, 2005, 03:00:25 pm
Quote
Steve & Chas....Play nice ;)


Is a pay per view event in the works.....I here the odds are 3 to 1 for Steve the "Younger Buck" to take the title from the" Wiley old vet King Chas"....there going to both do a few laps in the swim spa and than see who can drag themselves into Grandee first with no step....
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: poolboy34 on March 02, 2005, 03:05:50 pm
are you sure it's gonna be a grandee????  I heard it was a Beachcomber 750 or something..........
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: HotTubMan on March 02, 2005, 03:10:11 pm
Quote
are you sure it's gonna be a grandee????  I heard it was a Beachcomber 750 or something..........

My sources tell me that they will be soaking in a Fallsburg after the competition..... :) ;) :D ;D
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: poolboy34 on March 02, 2005, 03:14:13 pm
Custom....SUPER custom....or the brand spankin new for 2005 "Ultra Snoop dog pimped out tricked out Version???"
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 02, 2005, 08:07:28 pm
Look at these guys trying to provoke something here. Ya bunch of goons!  ;D

YOUNG BUCK? I'm turning 40 on Apr.17 and feel anything BUT! I know that's younger than most of you 'ol fogies here though... ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: poolboy34 on March 02, 2005, 09:28:21 pm
wow, I REALLY feel young now ;D
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 02, 2005, 09:32:18 pm
Well, I certainly don't mean to stir anything up. I'm enjoyin' it, mind you...  and I'm proud of the way everyone's behavin'..... so far .....
;)

But I have to say, without minimizing these other units:  one dip in a unit which moves the whole body of water, and you'll never go back.

I have seen High School Water Polo players who had a hard time outswimming a Swimex unit on high speed.

And they offer a range of exercise attachments and accessories, from underwater treadmills to rowing, recliner bikes, elipticals, regular excercyles. They also offer units aimed at sports rehab and specialised training. These guys have been doing just this a long time - I became a dealer for them shortly after I became a HotSpring dealer. I lost contact with them - I think they sell factory direct now.

Please understand that these other units offered by the various companies are fine items - some of them are the Bowflex of spas, others are the Universal Gym of spas, etc. But none of them move water like the units I've mentioned. They just can't and don't.

If you want to SWIM - look at swimex or endless. If you want a very high-end home unit spa with lots of options and extras available, these other units could work very well for you. But keep one other thing in mind: if you are doing some serious exercise, you are not going to want to heat the water very warm. As such, a dual-purpose unit must have a gas heater to be able to accomodate swimming and soaking without a long wait for heating, and the costs that would go with that.

The Swimex (http://www.swimex.com/index.html)-type units are dedicated to swimming and exercising.

(http://www.swimex.com/images/extra_images/RECLINETREQUARTI_lg.jpg)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: stuart on March 02, 2005, 09:44:16 pm
Quote
Well, I certainly don't mean to stir anything up. I'm enjoyin' it, mind you...  and I'm proud of the way everyone's behavin'..... so far .....
;)


Even Steve?

Well I guess he must be, after all you haven't asked him to step outside yet!! ;) ;) ;D ;D
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 02, 2005, 11:28:14 pm
I'm still waiting for that line Stu! ;D Maybe after this post... ;)

Yes Chas, the swimex wheel is pretty cool. I'm not going to repeat myself from the last post as I did explain the negative aspect of turbulence and the fact that POWER (like a spa) really isn’t what makes up these units already. I’m not sure if you missed that or chose to believe that I wasn’t being truthful.

Have you ever tried a variety of swim spas to compare Chas or are you assuming that alternate swim spas with swim jets designed for specifically for swim spas wouldn't be adequate for a competitive swimmer? I'm just trying to understand if this an opinion based on personal experience or an assumption. :) Your quote of "But I have to say, without minimizing these other units:  one dip in a unit which moves the whole body of water, and you'll never go back." leads me to believe that you have experienced a number of swim spas, correct? ???

And nooooo, how would that statement ever be construed as minimizing all the other swim spas available…I mean, after all…you
pre-empted your comment with that first so of course there was no insult taken. ::)

I'm not saying that other swim spas can't be decent but I'm trying to understand your bias and the level of knowledge you are basing this on. It’s tough to understand how someone selling spas can take a strong stance without really understanding the products available. Of all people Chas, I certainly expected you to be a little more open minded being that you defend all the posts that question any HotSprings shortcomings (though rightly so) and I'm guessing you find it difficult to comprehend how someone could make up their mind against your product without really taking the time to learn about it. That's how I'm feeling right now I guess...

*the above was said in a chilled sorta way* ;D

Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 03, 2005, 12:24:59 am
I guess I should try a different approach:


If you want a machine which closely approximates the action of swimming in a lap pool - the best ones move the whole body of water. The flow is amazingly adjustable for speed, there is no turbulance or drag because the water flows evenly and powerfully - all of the water: from top to bottom, side to side. The water makes a single trip from end to end of the swimming area, and then it returns back to the starting point through a counterflow channel under the floor or alongside the bottom under benches, depending on the make and model. It is no more difficult to stay in the center than it would be when swimming down the lane of a real lap pool.

The speed is adjustable over a wide range by use of an electronic control over a gearmotor driving a paddlewheel. The drive unit is heavy duty, and not connected with the heating/filtration system in any way.

These companies offer a wide range of accessories such as eliptical trainers, steppers, treadmills, rowers and cycles. With the large flat floor, these units can allow any form of exercise you can dream up, and if you choose to you can strap on a harness and swim against still water, a punishing workout to be sure.

On the other hand, if you want a huge spa with tons of cool spa-features, which can also be used for all sorts of exercising, (other than a duplicate of swimming in a real lap pool...) then go for one of these other units. They offer much less expensive bungi-cord rowing arms and pull bars, and grab-rails to do leg-lifts and the like.

Bottom line: there are two very distinct categories of 'swim spa.'  I mean no disrepect to my esteemed colleagues: the units they sell are wonderful for what they are. And the units I sell will easily impersonate a lap pool for less money, and while taking up less space.

But the two devices are not even in the same league, other than the fact that they are commonly called by the same name.

How did I do?
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 03, 2005, 12:33:58 am
One more thing: I have done many miles in a Swimex. I have also tried several different brands of jetted spas, even a huge 'Badu Jet' in a regular swimming pool. This latter item was hooked up to 15 hp (twin 7.5 hp pumps with 3" plumbing and an electrical panel all it's own).

But the most telling was what I described above: seeing the units in use, almost side-by-side at NSPI and other shows.
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 03, 2005, 02:32:51 am
Hmmmmmmm
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Lori on March 03, 2005, 06:44:27 am
Quote
Look at these guys trying to provoke something here. Ya bunch of goons!  ;D

YOUNG BUCK? I'm turning 40 on Apr.17 and feel anything BUT! I know that's younger than most of you 'ol fogies here though... ;)

Steve


Hey Steve, April 17 will be our 6th wedding anniversary!  It is also one of my best friend's 41st birthday, so you aren't as old as some people...LOL!   :-*

Does that help?
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 03, 2005, 08:36:21 am
Quote
Hmmmmmmm

;D
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Bill_Stevenson on March 03, 2005, 02:14:08 pm
We have quite a bit of experience with swim spas having raised a couple of kids who swam competitively all the way through college.  

I think Chas has given excellent advice.  The best ones move the whole body of water with the return being ducted so as not to disturb the smooth laminar flow of the main body of water that the user swims against.  The best one that I have seen and used is the Endless Pool.  I am talking swimming, not other forms of excercise.  An Endless can be set up so that even Olympic level swimmers cannot outswim it.  

Regards,

Bill

Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 03, 2005, 06:02:22 pm
Well then, I guess everything I said was completely wrong, deceptive, misleading and inaccurate...I apologize.  :-/   ::)  You're right, it has nothing to do with the quality of the swim and less turbulance in the water...it's more about the really BIG water it moves and ya gotta admit...that wheel is sooooo cool to watch!. ::) I mean sheesh...if you can outswim those with a constant 100% effort for like 20 minutes...what's the point? ??? Makes sense and I thank you for steering me straight there.

In closing, I agree with all those people that want 100+ jets for at least some degree of therapy… Those one's with 50 or 60 jets are just child’s play. Oh…and don’t forget a blower…YEH…they move the water around like CRAZY. Must be good! WhooHoo :D

signed,
Tim Taylor wannabe :-[
;D[glb] ;DWatch for the new Binford 6000 Swim Spa Coming Soon! ;D[/glb] ;D


P.S. Sorry Bill, which swim spa did you say you owned? I missed the part about your experience with them. I did get that the kids are really good swimmers (and that you own a HS spa) but if you can expand on that, it would be great..thanks!
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Spatech_tuo on March 03, 2005, 06:28:19 pm
Pistols at 10 paces!!
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: poolboy34 on March 03, 2005, 06:45:46 pm
I believe Bill said that he has used an Endless Pool in his post.  Both Steve and Chas have brought up excelent points, and given a lot of information on the DIFFERENT types of swim spas available today.  Each type is aimed at a specific customer.  While one might be good for one person it may not be good for another person.  Some people like having lots and lots of jets in their spas, others prefer spas with less jets that move a greater amount of water providing them with a gentler massage.  And in closing................Steve and Chas please STEP AWAY FROM THE GUN DEPOT!!!!
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 03, 2005, 06:50:17 pm
I's jus teasin. No harm no foul.  ;)..and no weapons used either! ;D

Just hav'n some which ya'll.

Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: poolboy34 on March 03, 2005, 06:52:41 pm
I gotta say, the Binford swimspa 6000 was an excelent and funny touch steve ;D
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: stuart on March 03, 2005, 07:49:37 pm
I have for the most part stayed out of the fray a bit here but I have to throw my 2 cents in....

We sell the D1 AFS systems and are an authorized installer for the Endless Pools. I have 2 AFS units in stock and on my floor.

I haven't tried the endless pool but have talked to many people that have purchased them. I have had many people tell me that the Endless pool was not everything they thought it was going to be when they purchased it and I have Never had someone say that about the D1. In fact, everyone that I've talked to that owns a D1 AFS are thrilled with it and want to tell me of all the new ways of exercise they have found since owning it!

I don't know anyone with a Swimex and have never tried one....
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 03, 2005, 08:10:38 pm
Wait a minute here Stuart...aren't D1 swim spas using those cheesy swim jets? ??? ;D

Ya need a BIG FREAKING WHEEL man to move that darn water. Wasa matta which you? ??? If it ain't pushing the water over the dfar edge, it's pretty much useless.

(http://www.bigeasy.com/images/attractions/mississippi-cruises.jpg)

If it ain't lookin like dis, f'get it! ;)

Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: stuart on March 03, 2005, 09:47:00 pm
You’d better step outside and chill a minuet! ;) ;)

(sorry, I just thought that was pretty witty of Chas) :D
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 03, 2005, 10:07:34 pm
Quote
You’d better step outside and chill a minuet! ;) ;)(sorry, I just thought that was pretty witty of Chas) :D

Thank-you Stuart.

And Steve, you proved my point: wouldn't you rather waterski behind the boat you pictured than a jet boat?

;)

(http://www.whirlpooljet.com/images/gallery/photo_gallery_jetboat_20_tn.jpg)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 04, 2005, 01:24:30 am
Actually no Chas. I don't think a paddlewheel boat could keep my body on the surface of the water.  ;)

Are you saying the jet boat would be too powerful? I'm confused. ???  ;D

A jet boat sure gives a nice wake to ski on though. Good point!

Steve

Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Drifter on March 04, 2005, 10:02:22 am
Ummm can I jump back in the fray?  As I was saying earlier the cost of installation for these units is substantial. As someone pointed out if your going to be swimming for excersise you don't want the water at 103! Therefore you can't just stick it outside like a spa. My friend looked into buying endless and he was all set until he looked at the other costs involved.  If you stick it in your existing home your going to have to do substantial work to accomidate it. If it's going outside then chances are a solairum or other addition will have to be built. I can remember reading several threads on other web sites about owners of endless complaining about the "unforseen" substantial expense involved in putting one of these in. Therefore I still say spend 30k and put in a regular backyard pool that your whole family and friends can enjoy and take the other 10k and buy yourself a membership to a local indoor pool. If you want to swim laps then 25 yards (or meters if your lucky) is what you need!
   ok time to jump back out!....BTW I'm 41 with the mind of a 12 year old and I hear he wants it back!
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 04, 2005, 10:03:14 am
Quote
A jet boat sure gives a nice wake to ski on though. Good point!

Steve

Well, for a good wake, you can't beat the Malibu Skier: they had a 400 gallon ballast tank you could fill or empty to give more or less wake for doing slalom or wake boarding. But prior to my back injury when I did waterski, my favorite ski boat was always this one:
(http://www.mastercraft.com/photos_2005/43804_p_t_90x60_image05.jpg)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Bill_Stevenson on March 04, 2005, 10:29:22 am
It is remarkable to read all the hearsay and second opinion and sales talk in this thread.  Someone correct me if I am wrong, but in re-reading the posts in this thread there is damn sparse testimony from people who actually swim as a sport.  A lot of opinions expressed here are self admittedly based on no actual swim time.  And watching others swimming in a spa not the same as swimming in them.  

I would like to repeat that we have actually used a variety of swim spas over a period of years including both types mentioned in this thread.  More than once, and more than for just casual swimming.  My whole family, including two competitive swimmers, three generations in fact, have all swum in these things.  Many, many times.  The best for swimming, not just my opinion, but the opinion of a lot of people who take their swimming seriously is the type that moves the whole body of water with the return being through separate ducts.  The Endless Pool is representative of the type I am talking about.

I would suggest that anyone who is reading this thread and doesn't know what to make of the controversy, but who is thinking of buying a swim spa, go to competitions where swim spas might be found in use.  Or check with the many universities and colleges that have swim teams to ask what they use and what they would recommend.  

Regards,

Bill    
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 04, 2005, 10:55:52 am
Quote
I would suggest that anyone who is reading this thread and doesn't know what to make of the controversy, but who is thinking of buying a swim spa, go to competitions where swim spas might be found in use.  Or check with the many universities and colleges that have swim teams to ask what they use and what they would recommend.   


Thanks for your insight Bill. I strongly agree!

(http://www.hydropoolhottubs.com/Hydropool.data/Components/comercial/comimgs/com09.jpg)


Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 04, 2005, 11:27:44 am
Quote
And watching others swimming in a spa not the same as swimming in them.
I agree - but watching these units being demonstrated at the NSPI and/or Aqua show gives you an amazing amount of info - you can, as I have said, see the obvious difference in the amount of water they move. You can see the vast difference in effort required, the vast difference in speed control, and the vast difference in similarity or lack of similarity to a swim lane.

That's the main difference as I see it - do you want a unit which closely approximates a lap pool, or do you want a large spa with the optional bungi-cord gear to expand it into a sort of home gym? They both have strong benefits and I am not in any way trying to put down the large spa units. You simply need to know which one you want when you go shopping.  

Quote
I would suggest that anyone who is reading this thread and doesn't know what to make of the controversy,    
I don't know that there is a controversy - other than Steve and I having a little fun - there really are two main categories of swim spa. Both have supporters and fans. The competitve swimmer is far more likely to feel at home in the counter flow units, while the average family will get more use out of the large spa, though I have found that most folks who purchase the swim jet types usually do end up using them simply as large spas - and understand me clearly on this one: there's certainly nothing wrong with owning a nice big spa!!
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Bill_Stevenson on March 04, 2005, 01:34:44 pm
Gee, I didn't know that the Toronto Maple Leafs decided to form a swim team.  Makes sense since no one is skating.  
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 04, 2005, 01:36:53 pm
Personally, I think they should form a waterski team....

;)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 04, 2005, 02:21:09 pm
I generally find that there are 2 types of consumers when it comes to spas or swim spas.

The first customer has a preconceived notion that more is better. These customers generally consider number of jets and horsepower to be their primary concern when in fact, most of us here know differently. All of us in the retail sector have spent many a presentation explaining the reasons why this isn't the case and explaining the true benefits of ownership from many other, more critical examples of what makes up this purchase. It can be hard to get this message across sometimes (as we've seen in this thread ;)) yet we continue to try and give them the necessary tools to make a good buying decision. Yes, sometime these people will go with the model that offers 86 small therapy jets based primarily on the jet count and having 4 - 6Hp pumps so they can tell their buddy what they bought.  

Generally, their second purchase will reflect the same principles we attempted to tell them initially. :-/

Customer #2 will research the purchase and carry a booklet filled with details on each spa into each showroom for an accurate comparison of each model they are contemplating. They will test each spa/swim spa and come away knowing that HP rating and jet count means very little to most serious consumers. They will swim in a swim spa and realize that swim spas are not designed to prevent you from out swimming the current, but geared towards a steady, powerful stroke which will provide some of the best exercise possible. These are not play toys but sophisticated swim machines aimed at a wide variety of swimmers from pre-teen to competitive athletes. The suggestion that these are large "spas" for splashing around in is ludicrous and totally unsubstantiated.

The unwary consumer will ask if these jets can be out swam, but these aren’t the type of consumers looking for a proper devise that will give them a clean, turbulence free swim. They think they’re going to get in and go CRAZY for 30 minutes swimming as hard as they can. Not a remotely accurate picture of what a swim spa is at all. It’s the same reason we don’t see people sprinting down the street for 30 minutes straight but instead jogging.

Yes, the Hydropool swim spa is totally adjustable to give variations considering the swimmers ability. And as many of these people find out after 15-20 minutes in one of these swim spas, the last thing they are concerned about is out swimming the jets. They will be completely exhausted, guaranteed!

In closing and to summarize; research the purchase and wet test. Both a spa and swim spa have so much to them than the force of water they produce. Ask most owners of spas on this forum and they will concur.

Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Chas on March 04, 2005, 02:49:24 pm
Quote
The suggestion that these are large "spas" for splashing around in is ludicrous and totally unsubstantiated.
Steve, Please understand I hold you in high esteem, and your product is a fine one. I meant no disrespect when I said that, but I stand by my a$$ertion: keep in mind I earn part of my living by selling spas, so calling something a large spa is far from an insult, nor do I mean for it to be demeaning.

But swim jet pools and counterflow pools are two different animals, and people need to shop knowing that. I agree that most people would be very happy owning a unit based on swim jets.

Competitive swimmers, or people who are now swimming regularly at the club or public pool, may want the paddlewheel unit.

Both systems have strengths and weeknesses.





:)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 04, 2005, 03:08:18 pm
Quote
Steve, Please understand I hold you in high esteem, and your product is a fine one. I meant no disrespect when I said that, but I stand by my a$$ertion: keep in mind I earn part of my living by selling spas, so calling something a large spa is far from an insult, nor do I mean for it to be demeaning.

But swim jet pools and counterflow pools are two different animals, and people need to shop knowing that. I agree that most people would be very happy owning a unit based on swim jets.

Competitive swimmers, or people who are now swimming regularly at the club or public pool, may want the paddlewheel unit.

Both systems have strengths and weeknesses.

  :)


None taken as you know I feel the same Chas.  ;D
I just happen to disagree that a swim spa with jets designed specifically for this application could be construed as anything less than a swim spa. Man we’re stubborn eh?

And you’re right Bill…The Leafs aren’t a swim team but the reason I brought that up is they are professional athletes that incorporate weight training, cardiovascular and endurance training within a Hydropool swim spa. After all, they are some of the most conditioned athletes in sport. And for the record, they are all in synchronized swimming now utilizing both Hydropool swim spas as opposed to playing hockey!

Steve


Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: stuart on March 04, 2005, 09:26:34 pm
Quote
Man we’re stubborn eh?

Now that's an understatement!

It's that passion that makes you successful at what you do! :) 8)
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: Steve on March 05, 2005, 01:38:46 am
 ;D Thanks Stu. It's that same passion that gets me into such trouble with my wife though too. :-/

Could you imagine living with me? ??? :D (it's a rhetorical question for all of you ready to hit the reply button! :P)

Steve
Title: Re: Swim Spas
Post by: stuart on March 05, 2005, 05:39:44 am
Quote
;D Thanks Stu. It's that same passion that gets me into such trouble with my wife though too. :-/

Could you imagine living with me? ??? :D (it's a rhetorical question for all of you ready to hit the reply button! :P)

Steve

Dear heaven what a patient, understanding and saintly woman your wife must be! (hey let her read this, I need all the kudos I can get from womankind as I seem to irritate mine all the time) ;)