Hot Tub Forum
Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: Vinny on April 28, 2005, 09:11:42 pm
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Got my APPROVED plans back from the township and marked out the footing holes. If all goes well there will be 19 holes on Monday! Anyone for golf +1?
Also, having my 200 Amp service installed tomorrow so I'll be ready for the tub. Funny thing about this is the wires going to the utility wires are loosing their insulation so I am in need of a wiring job anyway. I guess perfect timing, finally something going right.
I'm running a little off schedule but at least it's happening!!!
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Way to go Vinny: Every time we get in our spa, we think of you. Your time is coming. Good luck on the project.
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Alright Vinny!
Hey BRO, break out the digital camera and get some pics. I regret not doing that during my last install because the pictures would answer a LOT of questions in this forum...
CONGRATS...
Drewski
:D
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Thanks!!
I'm thinking June delivery of the tub. Mothers Day is coming up and we're going away for the Memorial Day weekend.
I do plan on taking pictures and have already put some pictures on Yahoo. I'll provide a link to it as I get more pictures of the project.
Got the 200 Amp upgrade done today - WOW what a big panel, my old service was 100 Amp and the box was 1/3 the size. I knew it was a big box but seeing it here is somewhat different.
I am now very excited about this project, especially since the anticipation on whether or not the township is OK with the plans is over.
I will update on the progress of the project.
Vinny
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Vinny,
It is finally happening...good for you. Should you have any questions regarding the operation, I am sure, I can help you out. ONLY if it's over a couple of ice cold Sam Adams...
good luck and congrats,
hottubber... ;D
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Hi vinny!
My Piper Glen was delivered wed., Wired this morning, turned on about noon, added first chemical, waiting for temp to come up from 55 degrees. Been taking pictures since I gutted this house about four years ago. Hot tub is on deck but rest of deck is not finished. Also it's raining and about 50 degrees. I keep everyone posted.
john ;D
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Well it's been a busy weekend!
Got the 200 Amp installed on Friday and dug 19 - 12" footings 36" deep today. I rented a Ground Hog post hole digger and was hoping to have it cut through easily - didn't happen - too may mature trees and their roots.
I had it for 2 days (place I rented it at is closed on Sunday) and was hoping to use both days to dig - no such luck! It rained all day yesterday ... so my friend and I had to grunt it all today.
He claims that this was the hardest part - he has built a few decks so I hope he's right! We'll have 2 weeks off to recoup then the concrete mixing begins.
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Hey Vinny,
Been watching the site for a while but this is my first post.
My question, why upgrade your service from 100 Amps to 200 Amps.
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Good question - although this point could be argued by people because there are people who don't upgrade their service and own a tub. Also as a side note my panel was at more than capacity (I had double breakers in some slots) and I do plan on adding some additional circuits for lighting and such in the future - when I upgraded to the 200 Amp service I got a 40 circuit breaker panel - more than enough for me.
The National Electric Code (NEC) states that any circuit can (should?) only run at 80% capacity and I believe this holds true for the main breaker as well. If you add up all the Amps on the circuit breaker panel, it comes to well over 100 amps - the assumption is that not all circuits will be used or be at 80% capacity. The main breaker should trip if you get to 101 amps and was there for any length of time.
The tub I purchased is 240 Volt 50 Amp which is 50% of my old 100 Amp panel. I also have central air which is 240 Volt 30 Amp - if both of these kicked on at the same time, I would be at 80 Amps or 80% of my old panel capacity. Put in blow dryers, televisions and all the other things that might be operating at that time and I certainly could have exceded 100 Amps! (BTW a 1200 Watt blow dryer is running at approximately 10 Amps -120 V x 10 A ~ 1200W).
Here's where the argument can happen - what is the likely hood of blowing the main breaker - it probably is slim to none.
I wanted to play it safe as to not go running drpping wet into the basement to trip breakers :o
I hope this helps and answered your question!
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I also think that the upgraded service will be an attractive selling point if you sell the house in the future. It certainly is a good investment as well.
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Way to go Vinny: Every time we get in our spa, we think of you.
And yet you continue to get in.... interesting. ;)
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And yet you continue to get in.... interesting. ;)
Just for that - I'm going to PM you with a picture of me in my speedo! You may never eat again!! :o
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Just for that - I'm going to PM you with a picture of me in my speedo! You may never eat again!! :o
Sorry, but Bill beat you to it... Then again, I need to lose weight...
;)
Drewski
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Ok Vinnie I'm not trying to be a dick but I just want to offer some good advice so that others can see that a service upgrade most likely is not needed.
A 100 amp rated main breaker has a trip curve as follows.
100 amp - 10000 seconds
125 amp - 500 seconds
150 amp - 80 seconds
here is a link to the Square D pdf - http://ecatalog.squared.com/pubs/Circuit%20Protection/Miniature%20Circuit%20Breakers/Powerlink%20AS%20(Obs)/QO/730-11.pdf
It is true that any breaker should be limited to 80% of its rating for an extended period of time. A 50 amp tub with a 5.5 kW heater and two 2.5 hp (not bhp) motors running at the same time will draw about 45 amps if the heat runs at the same time as the pumps in high. Add about 24 amps top for the air conditioner and you would have to be heating up the oven, running the microwave, using a hair drier, running the pool pump and running a bunch of lights to even be concerned with this. Remember the tub heater and the oven cycle when they reach temperature.
I would recommend that everone has their electrician check that the lugs on the main breaker and the bus bars in the main panel for proper tightness. Your electrician can tell you the current draw of your house, just turn on the air conditioner and a few appliances that would likely be running while you would be in the tub. The 10 amp hair drier is only pulling from one leg of your 240V feed and for a short period of time so this should be of little concern. My experience from working on industrial equipment with feeds ranging from 15 amps to 2000 amps 3 phase at 600 volt have shown that some electricians out there either have no clue or just want to sell the customer way more than they need.
Like I say though, I'm not trying to be rude or anything.
Good luck with you new spa
Steve
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Steve,
First off I don't think your rude! I do think you set me up though!
If you know more than someone else (me) then it's a learning experience for me. I will say that I thought that a 200 Amp breaker was needed based on my limited knowledge base - I did study Electrical Engineering 20+ years ago but settled into Biomedical Engineering after college so I haven't used and lost my EE power distribution.
Other than the tub and AC I personally don't have any other big current draw items other than pool pump, vacuum, blow dryer and some hand power tools. I disagree that 120V appliances are nothing to a 100 Amp panel as I believe it's 100 Amps total so they do come into the equation - will it trip the beaker - I guess not and I do agree that the main breaker will be able to handle the 100 Amps (and now I see 100+ Amps) for a period of time.
But I have also seen where motors kick on and pop breakers. Circuits at 100 or 120% capacity and don't last the 1000 seconds. If a household were to have a tub (40 amp), AC (24 amp), pool pump (5 amp?), vaccuum (12 amp - going by mine), blow dryer (10 amp) and cicular saw (12 amp) going on at the same time thats 103 amps without electronics, lights and things of that nature going on (the fairies that turn off these things when someone leaves the room haven't found my house yet - LOL). These are all 120 volt appliances and have to come into the equation. This will probably never happen but I and most engineers design for the worst case scenario and this is why a 200 Amp panel was put in.
I'm also not trying to be rude - obviously you have a good knowledge base on this subject. I guess your the person who can argue the point ;D
Thanks!
Vinny
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Hi Vinny,
I wasn't trying to set you up.
I should have stated my background up front.
I do have a Q regarding Spa Frog & Nature 2 type systems.
I'll start a new subject for that.
Sincere Apologies
Steve
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Hate to bump an old thread, but I read the SD Max manual, and was wondering why the heck 60 Amp service meant (1) only 48 A power was available and (2) you could only run the heater and two pumps. :) Now that I see the NEC code limit is 80% of max, the clouds lift!
Of course, selling things where you can't run all the options at the same time seems a bit misleading, but, OTOH, when would you really run the heater and all *three* pumps? (The things you learn here!)
I'm gonna keep on reading old posts until I can't take it any longer and am sure I'm not making a mistake with a SD Max. :)
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i am also getting concerned about this issue. just ordered maxxus and was told by dealer you could run everything at same time with 60 amp circuit. with 6 people in tub i am assuming we would want all 3 pumps running and the need for heater to kick on as well. what amperage is needed to run all of these without trip-ping breaker?
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From what I've read, if your in a tub in the winter for an extended period of time the temp could lower 1 or 2 degrees and the heater would kick on normally.
If you had a tub full of people with all three pumps running - the heater won't kick on.