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Order new tub With Circulation pump -or- Without? Why or Why Not?

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CanadianSpaTech:
Using softened water can create it's own set of issues. More research for you. Use a stain and scale remover to sequester metals in the water. If you use a water treatment like Spa Marvel or Spa Solution then you don't need a stain and scale remover. 

BullFrogSpasMN:

--- Quote from: Davekro on January 09, 2024, 01:02:54 am ---
--- Quote from: BullFrogSpasMN on January 08, 2024, 12:28:06 pm ---
There's no chemical that will effectively lower calcium, you'll need access to a soft water source via a home water softener or a portable water softener like this: https://hottubstore.com/product/caldera-on-the-go-portable-water-softener/

The water in my store is very hard so I use the portable softener when I fill my tubs and usually do a 50/50 hard/soft mix to get around a 125-150 ppm level.

--- End quote ---

Today I tested the TA and Ph of the water from my tap. TA was 370 and PH was 7.8.  In my small town, most people use water softeners, mine died maybe ten years ago. ≈5 years ago, I bought a preowned, but never hooked up salt based soft water set up and about 4 bags of salt, but never got around to hooking it up. Being in the basement, it is out of sight out of mind. Back then I had even made plans to install whole house filters as too. I know those notes are buried somewhere. LOL So NOW I have a reason to put 'install water softener back on my to-do list.' It certainly won't happen for the first fill of the new tub! To bring down TA hopefully to 50-70 ppm, do you think the process of: 1) adding acid to decrease PH; 2) run aeration to increase PH; 3) retest TA... Repeat steps 1 thru 3 until I get TA to 50-70 ppm is doable within a reasonable amount of repeating this process?

 I am in the office coffee business and have used 12" long Omnipure inline "softening" cartridges 1/4" in/out .5 GPM flow to reduce scale for coffee brewers. Do you think this dinky 12" 1/4" in/out filter which would theoretically add 200 gallons in ≈ 7 hours at it's spec'd 1/2 GPM from the tiny 1/4" in/out would be worth trying? I guess I could adapt it to my hose, start the .5 GPM flow into the tub, test the CH after about 30 minutes, then again 2 hours later to see if it is still delivering low CH water from the hose into the tub. Actually, it would be an interesting experiment to see its performance over 'X' gallons of water to know how well it is protecting my coffee equipment. Nothing to lose with the experiment, and maybe I'll get enough soft water to get a reasonable TA & PH, who knows.

You like to get 125 -150 ppm CH or TA?

--- End quote ---

TA: 50-80 ppm (your process for lowering TA is correct, you'll need to lower it in 'steps')
pH: 7.2-7.8
CH: 125-150

Also make sure you address any Iron or Copper issues by using a pre-filter for the hose followed by 1 of a dozen or more products that are available to remove metal from the water, you're dealer will have something if needed, most include these products in a startup kit to the customer.

The Wizard of Spas:
Possibly too late on this but to steer the topic back to the original question - There is a myriad of reasons a company may or may not use a circulation pump, and a myriad of pros and cons to a circulation pump that you would consider when making your purchase. I want to convey that this is written in good faith and not meant to cast a positive or negative light on any brand, but merely to help inform.

Factors in whether a circ pump is available on a hot tub from the point of view of a manufacturer:

-The pack(s) that a brand uses will play a role, possibly the biggest role. More relays = more price for the pack (pack = motherboard and heater). There is 1 relay needed per speed of a motor. Most brands use a 3 relay pack on lower to mid-range tubs. If the spa has (say) 2 pumps, one pump with a single speed and dual speed pump, that is 3 relays. If a circ pump is added on, the hot tub manufacturer will either need to buy a bigger pack (more money) or may buy an extension for the pack or hardwire direct. This typically is where continuous flow vs programmable comes in (if hardwired direct it will run 24/7, whereas programmable can run any length of time you deem fit) and why these terms exist.

-Sometimes the build of the tub limits the volume of "stuff" you can put in a tub. Brands might be able to physically have only X number of pumps / packs b/c there simply is only so much space inside the spa's cabin. Plumbing, height of the seats, how they install insulation, etc. all factor into this.

-Price *always* factors in. Can they buy these items and then sell tubs for the price they want? How much extra plumbing / labor is involved? Not saying it is the main factor, but it is always a factor.

-Does the supplier have a quality circulation pump? No hot tub brands make their own packs / pumps / controls / etc. so they have to buy them from a supplier. Not all suppliers are equal, and suppliers also offer varying quality (just like hot tub brands offer varying qualities of products). These are some of the factors involved.

In terms of pros and cons of a circ pump, its incredibly nuanced and requires lots of detailed review to understand the entire scope.

PRO CIRC PUMP

A standard therapy pump linked to the heater will pull "X" amps during its low speed / heat cycle and the circ pump tends to pull much less amperage and that can translate into energy savings. The circ pump takes a lot of stress off of the pump that the heater is linked to. The pump that is linked to the heater will start / stop all day long engage the heat process and to filter the water. This start / stop stress is why (in a 2 pump system) the pump linked to the heater always dies out faster than the second pump, so your therapy pump(s) are lasting longer when a circ pump is involved. The circ pump also allows for the user to sit in the tub w/o out the water coming out of the jets. This is for sure an intangible that may not be important factor but some users prefer to sit in the water with the jets off (or sit in the water after the 20 min massage and just relax). The circ pump will take the heater and filter off of the main pump / first pump and in theory will increase it's efficiency in terms of water delivery since the heat tube (a bottle neck in the plumbing) and the filter system (an impediment to the flow of water) are no longer present. A circ pump will also have a lower flow of water running through the heater chamber and can allow for a smaller heater to be used. A 4.0kW heater will pull less energy than the 5.5kW and will last longer as it is under less stress and then costs less to replace. These are some of the reasons why you could consider a circ pump.

ANTI CIRC PUMP

You had to buy a circ pump and all of the costs associated with it. To the buyer it is a flat price that is folded into the cost of the initial spa purchase. Thus, you are starting at a negative in terms of cost and trying to make up any savings based on the energy consumption on a per-month basis. Once you are on the other side of that - and that is *if* that happens (too many variables to calculate specifically so the length of time it takes is relative and a per-case basis, and I am not implying that you will never make that up nor that it will or will not take a long time, just outlining all factors), eventually the pump will need to be replaced. That plus the labor to replace said pump. So again you have to start from a negative and work your way back to zero. Additionally, there are some brands that use notoriously poor circ pumps which is more fodder for the anti-circ pump sales pitch. These are some reason why you could consider not buying a circ pump

I will shy away from filtration rates, etc. b/c of the factors involved that are too convoluted to truly flesh out the reasons why you would or would not want a circ pump. Ask anyone in this forum that truly understands hot tubs and they will tell you that if your water is green, the filter rate (and filter for that matter) will not turn it clear and let you know that this is all about water chemistry and that is 100% the user, not the brand. Or to put it another way - filter rate is probably towards the bottom of why you would or would not buy a circ pump.

I hope this helps. Good luck moving forward. 

Malcom Turn:

I've been wondering the same thing! From what I've gathered, the circulation pump helps keep the water cleaner and more evenly mixed with chemicals. Without it, you might need to run the jets longer on low speed to get the same effect, which could use up more energy.

As for Bullfrog spas, it's weird they don't include it standard, but maybe they figure most folks won't miss it? If you're keen on getting one, it might be worth adding as an option, especially if you plan to use the spa a lot. You could always ask the dealer about adding it in and see what they say!

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