Original > Hot Tub Forum
Dumb Newbie Questions - Considering Used Envoy or New Bullfrog on 3 Story Deck
swilly1000:
You're probably well advised to get an engineering report regarding placement on a deck. Your city building department may even demand it.
wmccall:
VySean,
Welcome to the forum! Let us know what you decide. If you wet test, which I do recommend, take along the people who will soak with you most often. There were some tubs I loved, but my wife floated in. We ended up with a compromise model.
vysean:
Well I'm back six months later... :)
Finally got around to wet testing today. Working with my local Hot Springs dealer (who apparently lurks on here - so "hi!"), I tried out an Envoy, a Marino, a Flash, and a Jetsetter.
Mostly trying to decide whether loungers were important or not, whether salt water was critical, etc. I love the concept of a lounger but can't seem to stay fixed in place. Really liked the Moto-Massage in the first (3 person) tub I sat in, but wasn't a huge fan in the Envoy. I think maybe it was a configuration issue. Some of the tubs were not really ready for wet testing - two had low water temps (85 and 96) and half the jets on the Flash were not working (I'm new to hot tubbing or I would have known how to fix it).
I was originally thinking about the Marino (new) for $6500 all-in (and with lots of accessories), or the Tarino, but they had a 2007 Grandee and a 2014 Flair each for $7k all-in. Really waffled between the two, but ultimately I put down a $500 deposit on the Flair. Still need to make sure my deck is sufficiently reinforced to handle the weight (it's a fair bit heavier than what I had planned). And now I'm reading that the 2014 (or earlier?) Flair's had issues with their LED lighting. Hopefully I mis-read or it was fixed during the refurbishment.
I would have actually preferred the Grandee, but it's at the extreme edge of whether it would fit, and the layout was far from optimal (lounge would be facing a house wall unless I had it craned to my upper deck). The Flair is better in both regards.
Much as I'm intrigued by the Bullfrog concept (and prices), their layouts really didn't work great for my placement - half the seats would be facing a house wall or the neighbor's house). For some odd reason, most of the Hot Springs/Caldera spas have good or excellent seat placement for my location. I'm still curious if Bullfrog's massage action is better or not. I have persistent lower back and neck pain and am hoping a hot tub will help to reduce it.
Some of my family and friends that might use the tub have sensitive skin. Am I making a big mistake not going for a salt water system (it does have ozone, if that matters)? I didn't notice anything, but three of the four tubs I tested were salt. The dealer mentioned for the 2014 Flair, it was an old style salt system that worked fine but was super expensive for consumables/supplies, so I'd be spending $1k every year or two to replace the cartridge. As opposed to the new system that's apparently like $90 a year.
Anyway, sorry for another long-winded post, but wanted to say "thanks" for those that responded and not abandon this thread without an update. Would love feedback on salt water systems or anything else I need to think about, and otherwise, I'll post as I get further along in the process.
d00nut:
I don't lurk, I continually contribute ;)!
I wasn't in when you came in last time, but I can help clarify anything. My opinion might not be as strong here as others if you are just getting feedback.
You obviously know our history, and the test soaks that took place, so I won't regurgitate any of that.
A couple of things though since we are talking:
* the Limelight "Christmas Tree" light problem was resolved in 2012. That was where one light went out, and they all went out. They also switch them to backside servicable, which essentially solved the water getting behind the lenses
* The Marino and Vanto are, I believe what you meant. The Tarino would be a little less
* Again, as a previous BF dealer, I don't have anything negative to say about them as a product... not my style. Massage is relative. But wet tests and who you do business with should greatly matter
* The new Salt system cartridge is roughly $90 with your discounts, but I suspect you would get 6 months per cartridge (on the new Freshwater Salt) if you continue to keep ozone in your spa
* Water care is relatively straight forward. Between all the different systems available to you, we should have no issue finding something that works for your friends and you, salt, spa marvel, nature 2, or otherwise
Regarding the Flash, that's outside, so we keep it low, but I was hoping my guys (I was out of town) would have raised it prior to you coming... Raincheck if you want. Everything is working on it, it must have had the diverter or something not quite in the right position. I just checked on it.
Thanks Sean, if you need anything you know where to find us. Or me...
FYI, this is Nick K.
Hottubguy:
--- Quote from: vysean on September 20, 2019, 02:22:59 am ---Well I'm back six months later... :)
Finally got around to wet testing today. Working with my local Hot Springs dealer (who apparently lurks on here - so "hi!"), I tried out an Envoy, a Marino, a Flash, and a Jetsetter.
Mostly trying to decide whether loungers were important or not, whether salt water was critical, etc. I love the concept of a lounger but can't seem to stay fixed in place. Really liked the Moto-Massage in the first (3 person) tub I sat in, but wasn't a huge fan in the Envoy. I think maybe it was a configuration issue. Some of the tubs were not really ready for wet testing - two had low water temps (85 and 96) and half the jets on the Flash were not working (I'm new to hot tubbing or I would have known how to fix it).
I was originally thinking about the Marino (new) for $6500 all-in (and with lots of accessories), or the Tarino, but they had a 2007 Grandee and a 2014 Flair each for $7k all-in. Really waffled between the two, but ultimately I put down a $500 deposit on the Flair. Still need to make sure my deck is sufficiently reinforced to handle the weight (it's a fair bit heavier than what I had planned). And now I'm reading that the 2014 (or earlier?) Flair's had issues with their LED lighting. Hopefully I mis-read or it was fixed during the refurbishment.
I would have actually preferred the Grandee, but it's at the extreme edge of whether it would fit, and the layout was far from optimal (lounge would be facing a house wall unless I had it craned to my upper deck). The Flair is better in both regards.
Much as I'm intrigued by the Bullfrog concept (and prices), their layouts really didn't work great for my placement - half the seats would be facing a house wall or the neighbor's house). For some odd reason, most of the Hot Springs/Caldera spas have good or excellent seat placement for my location. I'm still curious if Bullfrog's massage action is better or not. I have persistent lower back and neck pain and am hoping a hot tub will help to reduce it.
Some of my family and friends that might use the tub have sensitive skin. Am I making a big mistake not going for a salt water system (it does have ozone, if that matters)? I didn't notice anything, but three of the four tubs I tested were salt. The dealer mentioned for the 2014 Flair, it was an old style salt system that worked fine but was super expensive for consumables/supplies, so I'd be spending $1k every year or two to replace the cartridge. As opposed to the new system that's apparently like $90 a year.
Anyway, sorry for another long-winded post, but wanted to say "thanks" for those that responded and not abandon this thread without an update. Would love feedback on salt water systems or anything else I need to think about, and otherwise, I'll post as I get further along in the process.
--- End quote ---
For what it's worth I'm met d00nut multiple times now and there probably isn't a more dedicated person (or family for that matter) in the spa industry. I'm met a bunch of dealers in my time and besides me (lol) there probably isn't a dealer I've met more passion it about this industry and as knowledge filled as him and his Mother and Father
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