What's the Best Hot Tub

Author Topic: First Time Purchaser Help  (Read 4915 times)

castletonia

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2018, 02:10:41 pm »
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Where I work, we don't charge deposits for wet tests, but are considering it.  For reference, we only sell hot tubs and build inground pools.  I had a customer and his wife in on 3 different occasions looking at a Caldera Cantabria and Hot Spring Envoy NXT (expensive spas).  They were also looking at a Sundance Aspen and some big Maax Spa.  I already had the Cantabria filled but had to drain and move a Grandee NXT in order to fill up the Envoy NXT, which we had to move.  Altogether, about 2 hours of work and then I had to have the Envoy heat up and make sure water chemistry was right.  Well, something came up and they couldn't make it in on the Saturday to wet test.  In good faith, I offered to come in on a Sunday, which we are closed on, and accommodate them.  Guess what, they never showed and ducked my calls for the next few days only to leave a message on the store answering machine after hours saying they decided to buy the Sundance.

Call it my job or whatever you want, but I did a lot of work, made the extra effort only to get stood up.  If that is not reason enough to charge a refundable deposit, I don't know what is.  I try to see the good in people and generally speaking I know when a customer is not someone I care to do business with, but things happen.  If anything remotely like this happens to me again, I will start charging a refundable deposit.

If you choose to eliminate a dealer and brand because of their practice, that is your right to do so.  If it is a reputable dealer, then there will be no issue getting that refund if it doesn't work out.  If its a shady dealer, its in your best interest to look elsewhere regardless.  Rules, warnings, regulations, policies, etc are in place for a reason.  Most people are trustworthy but the few that are not ruin it for everyone else.

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #45 on: December 20, 2018, 02:10:41 pm »

BullFrogSpasMN

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #46 on: December 20, 2018, 02:32:46 pm »
This risk feels inherent to your industry, and should be factored into your calculations without having to pass this on to the consumer, because it absolutely erodes any trust or goodwill, and sets off alarm bells in the customer.

This happened to me during my hot tub purchase experience and I instantly crossed off the dealer from the list.


Don't listen if you think you have it figured out, but consumers are giving you valuable feedback.


this is what it comes down to for me...I'd rather be the guy/I am the guy saying 'No problem, give me 48 hours and it'll be ready to test" rather than "Well Ma'am I'll need to collect your credit card number before we discuss this any further" I have 5 dealers within 10 miles of me and bills to pay, so I love appearing much more "helpful" than the next guy down the road...just my opinion, others may vary.  With that said I have a huge showroom with 4 or 5 various 50 or 60 amp hookups, a forklift than can be driven onto the showroom floor, etc so in other words I can 'make it happen' fairly quickly and easily, some dealers don't have that luxury so that needs to be taken into account.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 02:34:24 pm by BullFrogSpasMN »

Roeboat

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #47 on: December 20, 2018, 03:20:28 pm »
I don't see a problem leaving a check that doesn't get cashed if I come back.

Piper Matt

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #48 on: December 20, 2018, 04:04:30 pm »
aug0211: Good luck with your exciting search!  I tried several of these same tubs and quickly settled on Sundance as my favorite brand with Hot Springs a close second.  It sounds like you have the opportunity to wet test an Aspen.  Jump on that and give it some serious consideration. 

Sundance's powerful jets drew me to the brand generally.  With the additional third pump on the Aspen, I can divert three of the four corner seats to full, dedicated power.  I really like this feature.  In the Optima, it looks like you can only get two of the four corner seats on full blast.  Plus, the Aspen's additional pump lets me run the foot dome jets while getting full power in the other seats. 

Oh, and there are also two "whirlpool jets" in the Aspen that I didn't think I would use all that much.  However, they are great for relieving sore muscles with intense and focused therapy.  Sometimes you have to contort yourself to hit the muscles that need attention, but I continue to be surprised at how many different ways you can sit comfortably in this tub and get a different hydrotherapy experience.  This might be something to consider for both your daughter and yourself. 

Size-wise, we discovered that you can really stretch out comfortably with another person or two in the tub without bumping feet, which is a nice feature.  It's usually just one or two of us in the tub, but the extra size seems to make a difference.  And the "love seat" bench is surprisingly comfortable.  You can even scoot forward and rest your head on a little groove on the lip of the tub. 

When wet testing the Optima, experiment with the diverter knobs to get a sense of the tub's versatility.  Ditto for the Aspen. 

As silversun pointed out, the Kingston and Claremont are much more shallow than their 880 series cousins.  My local dealer has a Kingston on the floor right now.  The seats don't look nearly as molded as they do in the 880 series models.  My dealer said the 980s are more of an entertainment tub than a solitary soaking/hydrotherapy tub. 

It sounds like you're a serious buyer and are choosing a model.  I don't understand why the dealer wouldn't be more accommodating. 


Michael Russell

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #49 on: December 20, 2018, 04:52:45 pm »
Some people are ignorant.. In a few circumstances it may save you some time and effort to charge a deposit, but in reality from my perspective it may also cost you some sales.

I buy and sell a lot of stuff on Kijiji (we use it over craigslist here in much of Canada). The number of times I have been stood up, or showed up to find the item gone or not at all as described is crazy. As I say people are ignorant. Move on and get the next sale...

Mike

Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Where I work, we don't charge deposits for wet tests, but are considering it.  For reference, we only sell hot tubs and build inground pools.  I had a customer and his wife in on 3 different occasions looking at a Caldera Cantabria and Hot Spring Envoy NXT (expensive spas).  They were also looking at a Sundance Aspen and some big Maax Spa.  I already had the Cantabria filled but had to drain and move a Grandee NXT in order to fill up the Envoy NXT, which we had to move.  Altogether, about 2 hours of work and then I had to have the Envoy heat up and make sure water chemistry was right.  Well, something came up and they couldn't make it in on the Saturday to wet test.  In good faith, I offered to come in on a Sunday, which we are closed on, and accommodate them.  Guess what, they never showed and ducked my calls for the next few days only to leave a message on the store answering machine after hours saying they decided to buy the Sundance.

Call it my job or whatever you want, but I did a lot of work, made the extra effort only to get stood up.  If that is not reason enough to charge a refundable deposit, I don't know what is.  I try to see the good in people and generally speaking I know when a customer is not someone I care to do business with, but things happen.  If anything remotely like this happens to me again, I will start charging a refundable deposit.

If you choose to eliminate a dealer and brand because of their practice, that is your right to do so.  If it is a reputable dealer, then there will be no issue getting that refund if it doesn't work out.  If its a shady dealer, its in your best interest to look elsewhere regardless.  Rules, warnings, regulations, policies, etc are in place for a reason.  Most people are trustworthy but the few that are not ruin it for everyone else.

Spatech_tuo

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #50 on: December 20, 2018, 07:52:26 pm »


If you are being burned by customers, stop to consider the *type* of customer you are attracting, and also the type of customer you are *repelling* (see silversun's post above as an example). Hint: people spending $10-$15k on a hot tub are the people driving the $50k+ vehicles, not the $2k beaters from Joe's lot. Know your market, and know your customer.


There is no outward difference between the two. The person who sets up a wet test but then blows it off without warning drives the same type car, dresses the same, talks the same ... as the customer who is respectful.
220, 221, whatever it takes!

aug0211

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #51 on: December 20, 2018, 09:26:49 pm »
aug0211: Good luck with your exciting search!  I tried several of these same tubs and quickly settled on Sundance as my favorite brand with Hot Springs a close second.  It sounds like you have the opportunity to wet test an Aspen.  Jump on that and give it some serious consideration. 

Sundance's powerful jets drew me to the brand generally.  With the additional third pump on the Aspen, I can divert three of the four corner seats to full, dedicated power.  I really like this feature.  In the Optima, it looks like you can only get two of the four corner seats on full blast.  Plus, the Aspen's additional pump lets me run the foot dome jets while getting full power in the other seats. 

Oh, and there are also two "whirlpool jets" in the Aspen that I didn't think I would use all that much.  However, they are great for relieving sore muscles with intense and focused therapy.  Sometimes you have to contort yourself to hit the muscles that need attention, but I continue to be surprised at how many different ways you can sit comfortably in this tub and get a different hydrotherapy experience.  This might be something to consider for both your daughter and yourself. 

Size-wise, we discovered that you can really stretch out comfortably with another person or two in the tub without bumping feet, which is a nice feature.  It's usually just one or two of us in the tub, but the extra size seems to make a difference.  And the "love seat" bench is surprisingly comfortable.  You can even scoot forward and rest your head on a little groove on the lip of the tub. 

When wet testing the Optima, experiment with the diverter knobs to get a sense of the tub's versatility.  Ditto for the Aspen. 

As silversun pointed out, the Kingston and Claremont are much more shallow than their 880 series cousins.  My local dealer has a Kingston on the floor right now.  The seats don't look nearly as molded as they do in the 880 series models.  My dealer said the 980s are more of an entertainment tub than a solitary soaking/hydrotherapy tub. 

It sounds like you're a serious buyer and are choosing a model.  I don't understand why the dealer wouldn't be more accommodating.

Great feedback! Very insightful and many specifics in there to pay attention to. Thank you!

aug0211

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #52 on: December 20, 2018, 09:29:09 pm »


If you are being burned by customers, stop to consider the *type* of customer you are attracting, and also the type of customer you are *repelling* (see silversun's post above as an example). Hint: people spending $10-$15k on a hot tub are the people driving the $50k+ vehicles, not the $2k beaters from Joe's lot. Know your market, and know your customer.


There is no outward difference between the two. The person who sets up a wet test but then blows it off without warning drives the same type car, dresses the same, talks the same ... as the customer who is respectful.

Fair enough! Impossible for me to say as Iím just a consumer so I donít get to see the other end of it regularly.

I still view it as the cost of doing business and preserving a good reputation as a high end dealer in a luxury market. That said, if the goal is to be known as a nickel-and-dime dealer, charge for everything - $10 cover to talk to a salesman, $50 for a dry test, $300 for wet test, whatever works :)

swilly1000

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #53 on: December 21, 2018, 05:34:52 am »
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Where I work, we don't charge deposits for wet tests, but are considering it.  For reference, we only sell hot tubs and build inground pools.  I had a customer and his wife in on 3 different occasions looking at a Caldera Cantabria and Hot Spring Envoy NXT (expensive spas).  They were also looking at a Sundance Aspen and some big Maax Spa.  I already had the Cantabria filled but had to drain and move a Grandee NXT in order to fill up the Envoy NXT, which we had to move.  Altogether, about 2 hours of work and then I had to have the Envoy heat up and make sure water chemistry was right.  Well, something came up and they couldn't make it in on the Saturday to wet test.  In good faith, I offered to come in on a Sunday, which we are closed on, and accommodate them.  Guess what, they never showed and ducked my calls for the next few days only to leave a message on the store answering machine after hours saying they decided to buy the Sundance.

Call it my job or whatever you want, but I did a lot of work, made the extra effort only to get stood up.  If that is not reason enough to charge a refundable deposit, I don't know what is.  I try to see the good in people and generally speaking I know when a customer is not someone I care to do business with, but things happen.  If anything remotely like this happens to me again, I will start charging a refundable deposit.

If you choose to eliminate a dealer and brand because of their practice, that is your right to do so.  If it is a reputable dealer, then there will be no issue getting that refund if it doesn't work out.  If its a shady dealer, its in your best interest to look elsewhere regardless.  Rules, warnings, regulations, policies, etc are in place for a reason.  Most people are trustworthy but the few that are not ruin it for everyone else.

As aug0211 says, "That's why they call it work". Nothing you said here responds effectively to his (and Silversun's, and Michael Russell's) very thorough and insightful posts above.  Rather, this post reinforces what they say above and exemplifies the kind of thinking they are advising we steer clear of.  Wow.

castletonia

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #54 on: December 21, 2018, 07:41:26 am »
Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Where I work, we don't charge deposits for wet tests, but are considering it.  For reference, we only sell hot tubs and build inground pools.  I had a customer and his wife in on 3 different occasions looking at a Caldera Cantabria and Hot Spring Envoy NXT (expensive spas).  They were also looking at a Sundance Aspen and some big Maax Spa.  I already had the Cantabria filled but had to drain and move a Grandee NXT in order to fill up the Envoy NXT, which we had to move.  Altogether, about 2 hours of work and then I had to have the Envoy heat up and make sure water chemistry was right.  Well, something came up and they couldn't make it in on the Saturday to wet test.  In good faith, I offered to come in on a Sunday, which we are closed on, and accommodate them.  Guess what, they never showed and ducked my calls for the next few days only to leave a message on the store answering machine after hours saying they decided to buy the Sundance.

Call it my job or whatever you want, but I did a lot of work, made the extra effort only to get stood up.  If that is not reason enough to charge a refundable deposit, I don't know what is.  I try to see the good in people and generally speaking I know when a customer is not someone I care to do business with, but things happen.  If anything remotely like this happens to me again, I will start charging a refundable deposit.

If you choose to eliminate a dealer and brand because of their practice, that is your right to do so.  If it is a reputable dealer, then there will be no issue getting that refund if it doesn't work out.  If its a shady dealer, its in your best interest to look elsewhere regardless.  Rules, warnings, regulations, policies, etc are in place for a reason.  Most people are trustworthy but the few that are not ruin it for everyone else.

As aug0211 says, "That's why they call it work". Nothing you said here responds effectively to his (and Silversun's, and Michael Russell's) very thorough and insightful posts above.  Rather, this post reinforces what they say above and exemplifies the kind of thinking they are advising we steer clear of.  Wow.

Am I taking your response out of context or are you saying I should really get over it and itís no big deal that I went above and beyond for a potential customer and got stood up?  If so, tell me this; put yourself in my shoes or any other dealer, how many times can you be stood up before you implement a refundable deposit policy or some kind of reassurance? 


silversun

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #55 on: December 21, 2018, 08:05:43 am »
Maybe you should ask yourself why they're not coming back to your store?

Customers don't care how many times you've been burned. We don't want to be penalized for it. We're not interested in hearing complaints about how hard it is to fill up a tub or move it. We'll just go somewhere else. Somewhere that makes it easy for us.

When i bought from my dealer they had 5 of their most popular models on the floor filled with water and ready for customers. I didn't have to arrange anything. They made it easy for me.

The problem is you're only asking consumers to see it from your POV, and not looking at it from customers.

bachman

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #56 on: December 21, 2018, 08:11:01 am »
Maybe it's case by case with the situation.
I have no shopping experience at all for a hot tub as ours was gifted but I'm an information fiend when it comes to research and big ticket considerations. Were I to zero in on a few to wet test, very little would get in my way of setting it up if I were that close to a decision on a tub, be it $2999 or $18,000. If the store or staff gave me a chilled feeling about working with them, I'd move on but I think they could convey the issue about a 'good faith' deposit that wouldn't send me running. It's my time I'm investing and I want to keep moving forward.

I've been the customer and on the sales side of things enough to know that YES, there are some sleazy, un-professionals in business and just one or two gets the word or rep spread like wild fire. Yet dozens of customers a day coming in or hundreds a month mean any store or dealer has many, many chances upon the customers that can be as much an *sswipe as anyone in the business and no doubt those solid dealers or stores have suffered the downsides of those occasions too. They have the same right in my mind to let people walk or shop elsewhere if they decide they want to stick to a policy that is working for them. I understand some reading between the lines if it looks like the place is barely hanging on or going out of business ... but I don't see it as right and wrong, just how they train their staff to explain the situation. IOW, don't be offended by the butthead that was in that store a week ago promising they'd be in for a special set up then burned them and caused them to consider a better way of fending that off. IF offended, by all means take the extra time and extra effort to start over somewhere else.  ;)
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 08:15:06 am by bachman »

castletonia

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #57 on: December 21, 2018, 08:24:33 am »
Maybe you should ask yourself why they're not coming back to your store?

Customers don't care how many times you've been burned. We don't want to be penalized for it. We're not interested in hearing complaints about how hard it is to fill up a tub or move it. We'll just go somewhere else. Somewhere that makes it easy for us.

When i bought from my dealer they had 5 of their most popular models on the floor filled with water and ready for customers. I didn't have to arrange anything. They made it easy for me.

The problem is you're only asking consumers to see it from your POV, and not looking at it from customers.

In my opinion, your last sentence is the basis of the whole discussion.  You say I need to see it from your POV, but you also need to see if from my POV.  I bend over backwards for my customers, get great reviews/respect and have a good closing ratio.  Yes, some of this is because I represent premium brands, but itís also due to how I treat my customers. 

There is always a middle ground if both parties want there to be.  That is why I donít yet request deposits.  If the OP and the dealer cannot agree on a compromise to the deposit situation, then it falls in both of them regardless of how good eaches intentions are.

aug0211

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #58 on: December 21, 2018, 11:00:04 am »
Maybe you should ask yourself why they're not coming back to your store?

Customers don't care how many times you've been burned. We don't want to be penalized for it. We're not interested in hearing complaints about how hard it is to fill up a tub or move it. We'll just go somewhere else. Somewhere that makes it easy for us.

When i bought from my dealer they had 5 of their most popular models on the floor filled with water and ready for customers. I didn't have to arrange anything. They made it easy for me.

The problem is you're only asking consumers to see it from your POV, and not looking at it from customers.

In my opinion, your last sentence is the basis of the whole discussion.  You say I need to see it from your POV, but you also need to see if from my POV.  I bend over backwards for my customers, get great reviews/respect and have a good closing ratio.  Yes, some of this is because I represent premium brands, but itís also due to how I treat my customers. 

There is always a middle ground if both parties want there to be.  That is why I donít yet request deposits.  If the OP and the dealer cannot agree on a compromise to the deposit situation, then it falls in both of them regardless of how good eaches intentions are.

I think this is the crux of the discussion.

Youíre selling me something. Iím not selling you anything. You need to see it from my POV. Youíre fighting for my hard earned money, not the other way around.

The customer really doesnít care if the dealer had a rough night last night, got burned by another customer yesterday, or didnít get his morning coffee today. I also donít care if itís ďworkĒ for you to.......... come to your place of business, where you get paid, and fulfill customer requests, in hopes of earning my business. Iím fact, that is the expectation. Guess what - thatís what we also all do for a living, when we go to our places of work.

You are in sales. Your job is to make every customer feel like your only customer. Stop projecting your problems with other customers into us.

This is not a volume sales commodity industry. Youíre in high-end luxury sales. Service and customer experience matter. What happened to you a month ago, or last week, or even 2 hours ago with another customer is 100% irrelevant to me when I walk through your door.

aug0211

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2018, 11:02:40 am »
One other thing to add - Iím hoping these posts arenít offending you dealers. Iím not out to pick a fight. Really just trying to let you know where your potential customers are coming from.

As much as this forum is a resource for customers, weíd all be kidding ourselves if we didnít acknowledge that the dealers are learning tons about the market and the potential customers out there.

Just trying to share my experience with the dealers at large for their own consideration. I was surprised to see so many other customers chime in so quickly - maybe this is not just an isolated opinion. Who knows, maybe you could end up making more money off of this feedback.

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Re: First Time Purchaser Help
« Reply #59 on: December 21, 2018, 11:02:40 am »

 

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