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Another Newbie, Another question. Something a bit different - water changes?

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Sam:
Exactly.  If you give an honest, up front, best price and the guy down the street says his is normally $13k but this weekend it's $6k, some people will go with that guy because it's "a better deal".  I've had this happen numerous times.  There is no dealer in the world that can regularly drop 50% from their price and stay in business.  Most dealers don't even have that much margin to begin with. People are often obsessed with getting the best deal and will believe the unscrupulous dealer who says this.  The honest dealer loses because he "wouldn't negotiate more than a few hundred dollars".  I prefer to be honest.

Another factor is that people don't know about hot tubs.  Everyone knows that a Toyota is reliable, but nobody knows anything about hot tub brands.  If you just give a number without having the opportunity to explain and justify the number, the customer will default to the best deal.  Like costco spas.  They are cheaper for a variety of reasons but they certainly are nowhere near the quality of a marquis, hot spring, bullfrog, etc..  But without the opportunity to explain this to the customer, the costco spa looks like a better deal.

Again, I think we could do a much better job as an industry but there are certain considerations that are lost when just getting pricing.  Combine this with the fact that there are a lot of shady dealers out there who are willing to lie through their teeth (see "chemical free spas"), I totally understand why customers get frustrated and upset. 

This is an interesting discussion and I'm glad we're having it.  I appreciate hearing the consumer perspective and by no means do I intend to sound combative.  Thank you for offering your experience and thoughts.

kies1:
I found only one store that had prices posted. All others I went to did not even discuss pricing until they fit you into a tub that met our needs. Then bam the msrp was dropped like a bomb on you. Then all of a sudden the what I can do for you price came into play that dropped by 7 to 8 thousand dollars off msrp. I can hold that price if you leave a deposit. Are you kidding me, how is this not shady. In the end we went with the dealer that had the msrp listed and offered his best price which in my opinion is the way to go. As a consumer how do I know what msrp is if it is not listed. I found this part of they buying process very frustrating as a consumer. The hot tub is the only purchase I have ever made where pricing in most retail locations is not posted, this as a consumer makes no sense to me at all. Very frustrating walking into a store on a budget not knowing what prices are of hot tubs, just crazy if you ask me. Just my two cents

Hottubguy:

--- Quote from: kies1 on October 29, 2018, 08:12:32 pm ---I found only one store that had prices posted. All others I went to did not even discuss pricing until they fit you into a tub that met our needs. Then bam the msrp was dropped like a bomb on you. Then all of a sudden the what I can do for you price came into play that dropped by 7 to 8 thousand dollars off msrp. I can hold that price if you leave a deposit. Are you kidding me, how is this not shady. In the end we went with the dealer that had the msrp listed and offered his best price which in my opinion is the way to go. As a consumer how do I know what msrp is if it is not listed. I found this part of they buying process very frustrating as a consumer. The hot tub is the only purchase I have ever made where pricing in most retail locations is not posted, this as a consumer makes no sense to me at all. Very frustrating walking into a store on a budget not knowing what prices are of hot tubs, just crazy if you ask me. Just my two cents

--- End quote ---

Therein lies another frustrating thing for me. Some manufacturers list a MSRP that isn’t too much higher then what the tub should be sold for (Marquis for instance) while others will list some crazy MSRP prices (my area hydropool, Master and lazy boy). So say I offer $1000 off MSRP but down the road at the Master dealership they are giving $6000 off. A consumer is going to automatically assume they are getting a better deal with the Master. As a dealer it drives me as crazy as you guys the end consumers. One of the things I’ve noticed as a trend is manufacturers offering better price guidelines on there website. I know Hot Sorings, Caldera, Javuzzi and Sundance do this. Probably others as well but those are the ones I’ve noticed. I do appreciate the buyers perspective on this as well. Keep the comments flowing

kies1:
I though the exact opposite. I took it as how can a manufacturer have a ridiculous msrp and then the dealer gives you 8000 grand off. I take that as is this truly the msrp or is it a made up price only to let the consumer think that they have just got the deal of the century. I think this is the absolute wrong way to do business. Let me know what a reasonable msrp is and then let me know what your best price is. Take it or leave it. Every dealer needs to turn a profit or they will not be there to support the customers who have purchased and been loyal to them. Example I can buy chemicals cheaper online but will continue to by from my dealer. It is called building a relationship because at some point down the road I will need them I am sure. This sales tactic was used in the used car industry for years and look at the reputation that industry got over the years. I think somethings has to change in he hot tub industry on how sales and pricing are done. As a consumer I am willing to pay a little more for what I think is a better product and better service and representation from the manufacturer on how they want to sell their product etc.

swilly1000:
A lot of good comments here including from dealers.  And I trust that there a lot of good dealers out there, and on this forum.  I certainly have no problem with dealers making a good living and turning a profit. I will happily pay for good product and good service.

BUT............

If it wasn't for HTU I might still be looking around and wondering what is the best tub.  What struck me though even on Chris' site is that although there is lots of info about marketing spin vs good quality build, there still isn't a real lot about price.

The MSRP bit of this discussion is literally laughable.  I loved telling my friends about that little curve ball.  You sit down to talk price and the $18K tub comes down in price $5K in five minutes...but wait...here it comes...there is a $1K "factory incentive" right now and the price is now $12K!  Oh yeah? Is that how it's going to be? Are we really going to play this game? Why don't we just have a little respect for each other and NOT try that one on for size OK? Or we can keep playing and I will leave your store wondering where how many other aces are stashed up your sleeve.  I would be embarrassed to pitch that BS day in day out. How is a sales guy supposed to believe in the product when that game is being played?

The bottom line for me remains that there needs to be more disclosure. Nothing I have read from dealers has changed that. 

Silversun said it best: "I think the real reason why dealers don't show pricing is not because they can't, or that they would be chased out of business, but because it's in their best financial interest to be opaque. The dealer is at a significant advantage if they can select the price from which to start negotiations."

Until manufacturers and dealers get past this resistance to price disclosure, consumers will perceive them as (to borrow Michael Russell's word) greasy.

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