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Author Topic: potassium peroxymonosulfate oxidizer vs dichlor chemistry  (Read 2781 times)

tubrash

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potassium peroxymonosulfate oxidizer vs dichlor chemistry
« on: October 18, 2017, 11:37:51 am »
Dichlor is a cyclic organic compound, a triazine with a couple chlorides as functional groups.  When in water, it releases the chlorides to chlorinate the water probably into the hypochloric acid/hypochlorate equilibrium I don't know.  At any rate, my question is does the oxidant peroxymonosulfate (MPS) oxidize (destroy) the organic dichlor salt (triazine) and thus push that equilibrium toward the release of chlorides, and thus increase the chlorine levels.  Does the shock oxidizer MPS destroy the weak organic acid salt form of dichlor and leave more chlorine in the water? 

Since HClO is 80 times more likely to destroy bacteria and algae than ClO- I understand why you never want to let pH into the alkaline range, hence weighing the equilibrium of the hypochloric acid to hypochlorate to the basic range and mostly the perchlorate salt doing nothing. 

Seems you can add HCl or muriatic acid or hydrochloric acid, and reverse that equilibrium back to HClO side. 

I took a reading yesterday using a multi strip and it read 0 for hardness.  Wow, cause I don't have soft water.  I live in Columbus Ohio, and this must be unusual for the neighborhood, cause Ohio doesn't have soft water on the water map online.  Does this mean I have magnesium and iron ions making up for the lack of Calcium?  I poured a third of a bottle of hardness  up or calcium dichloride solution from the hot tub store in to get normal readings.  Strange tap water, what's up?  It also came in at ph 6 or so, so I added soda ash (disodium carbonate) to get into the 7 range. 

I was informal in my water hygiene for the first year of hot tub soaking, and was getting all kinds of strange readings, stuck in the pH range of 6, then I dumped a bunch of dichlor and MPS in, to a tub containing white floaty (biofilm I think, it sure wasn't calcium crashing out of a high pH solution, cause my calcium reads 0 and ph was about 6).  now I have a lovely hot tub rash folliculitis in the bathing suit area, and I've had it for about 10 days, the red rash went away quickly with application of antifungal cream, but I'm left with lovely festering pimple like welts oozing white slime.   Bonus, just in time for Halloween.  Unfortunately, I'd have to display my scrotum for the full effect.  Antibiotics and antifungal ointment can't quite get rid of this pestilence so I'm going to try silver, iodine, benzoyl peroxide ointments and chlorhexidine cleanser.  Bonus: I've gone from tighty whities to boxers, and I like them better, never would have tried them without the hot tub rash. 

Please learn from El Estubido, don't be informal with the water chemistry of a hot tub.  Now I'm left not knowing if this rash is caused by a chemical sensitivity developed by soaking in harshly imbalanced water, to much triazine, hypochloric acid and peroxysulfate, or just a bacterial folliculitis, combined with fungal infection.  I'm guessing the bad little life forms.   

Maybe its all of the above.  I've formalized my study of water chemistry, and will never never never go more than 4 months with out changing water including a disinfection before draining and a wipe down of the tub. 

Any amateur chemists out there want to take a shot at the dichlor/peroxymonosufate chemistry?  Anybody understand what a buffer is, and what chemical equilibriums are?  What oxidation is in relation to organic compounds? 

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potassium peroxymonosulfate oxidizer vs dichlor chemistry
« on: October 18, 2017, 11:37:51 am »

The Wizard of Spas

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Re: potassium peroxymonosulfate oxidizer vs dichlor chemistry
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 07:21:14 pm »
I am nowhere near as smart as you when it comes to the molecular aspects of this but I'll try my best to unpack some of this stuff...

"When in water, it releases the chlorides to chlorinate the water probably into the hypochloric acid"  CORRECT.  Chlorine, Bromine and Biguianides are the only three EPA-registered sanitizers and they are what you must use in order to properly sanitize your water.  Hot tub folliculitus is from lack of sanitizer.  Keeping chlorine in the 1-3ppm range will help prevent this. 

"At any rate, my question is does the oxidant peroxymonosulfate (MPS) oxidize (destroy) the organic dichlor salt (triazine) and thus push that equilibrium toward the release of chlorides, and thus increase the chlorine levels.  Does the shock oxidizer MPS destroy the weak organic acid salt form of dichlor and leave more chlorine in the water?"  You're clearly smarter than me when it comes to the process, but the way it was conveyed to me is that the oxidizer removes the clutter of organic material from the water, enhancing the abilities of chlorine to sanitize.

"It also came in at ph 6 or so, so I added soda ash (disodium carbonate) to get into the 7 range." pH ranging from 7.2-7.8 will maximize the effects of chlorine.  Levels below that can reduce the effectiveness up to 50%.

"Anybody understand what a buffer is, and what chemical equilibriums are?"  Buffer is generally referred to alkalinity, which is confusing as alkaline and base are two sides of the pH coin.  However, in this case, alkalinity is a unit of mesurement (in ppm) and is kept (by some) at 80-120ppm, whereas others keep it at 100-150ppm.  To increase, you add sodium hydrogen carbonate.  Keeping the alkalinity in line reduces the effects of events that want to push your pH level up or down.  Chemical equalibriums can be referred to the harmony of your water balance, as pH, alkalinity, sanitizer levels, calcium hardness levels, etc. all have effects upon each other when they are off, and most have secondary byproducts that may help in other areas too.

"I took a reading yesterday using a multi strip and it read 0 for hardness.  Wow, cause I don't have soft water."  Its not uncommon to have very low hardness levels in tap waters.  Calcium Hardness Increaser will help keep calcium in a liquid state, reducing the likelyhood of deposits on jets, etc. A byproduct of proper hardness levels is that it will help anchor pH levels.

"and will never never never go more than 4 months with out changing water including a disinfection before draining and a wipe down of the tub."  This helps reduce Total Dissolved Solids, which greatly interfere with the sanitizer's ability to clean your water.  3-4 months of water is the preferred timeframe.

Again- I have done this a long time but I only know things in layman's terms and you're clearly looking at it from the scientific point of view.  So I hope that you're able to come down to my level and decipher my basic speak on this subject.  Sorry.  But I think you're on the right track.  And clearly you know your stuff.  Good luck.   
 

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Re: potassium peroxymonosulfate oxidizer vs dichlor chemistry
« Reply #1 on: October 18, 2017, 07:21:14 pm »

 

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