Are you having anxiety over making a spa purchase?

[bodguy]

As a 1st time hot tub/spa buyer I found there was one "down side" to doing my research using the hot tub message boards and forums, anxiety over prices. Anxiety that I actually did not have prior to starting research. Let me explain:

The 1st thing you find when doing proper research is that this purchase is probably going to cost you more than you had planned. Most total newbs, like myself, see tubs at Home Depot and Costco for under 4k and quickly realize though research here and other places that it is probably not a wise choice...ie I'd rather pay double on a purchase of this size to know I will be backed and serviced, and hopefully have less trouble with the product...Yugo versus Honda anyone?

The 2nd thing you will find in making this purchase is that purchasing a spa can be a similar experience to purchasing a quality mattress (anyone buy a good mattress lately?)  The asking/invoice price is RARELY and probably NEVER that.

Example:  The 1st HS dealer I went to said the Vista was a $13000 tub all day, and that didn't inlcude steps cover etc.  Though I did not negotiate, the salesman made me believe that there was little room to negoatiate. He quoted me this price AFTER I told him I had done months and months of research on manufacturers, models and prices. I knew that this was way way over what this tub was worth, and was rather insulted that he still quoted me that price after he knew damn well I was an informed consumer. I knew this dealer wasn't for me.

The 2nd HS dealer I went to had a Vista, with invoice price listed on the tub of $10900, and the "sales" price of $8599, including cover, lifter, steps, chems. Now we are talking.

Now to brass tacks. I found myself bouncing back and forth, from board to board, looking at brands and models, options etc, but quickly got down to prices on each and every one.  Mind you that I am the type of person who always wants the best, biggest and nicest of anything I buy, and always at the best price (there's a flaw in my personality that way).  I quickly found myself only looking at the top end product in each and every manufacturer's line. I started driving myself nuts over prices and saving that $500 to $1500 from one model to the next, which actually confused me to the point of delaying a purchase.

To my point here, to those of your who are having price or model anxiety to the point of not making a purchase (dazed&confused and others), I realize that if you pull the trigger on a tub and find that someone else got the same tub as you for $750.00 less you are going to have buyers remorse, or be bummed out. Heck thats human nature. I feel I got the best price I've seen for my tub, and the 1st time I see someone get it less than I did, which inevitably will happen, I will be bummed as well......for about 30 seconds.

Wet test, find that good dealer, decide on that tub you want and can afford, research the price, and try like hell to get it at the lowest price you've seen on these boards.  Ill bet you will get the tub you want within $1000.00 of the lowest price on these boards (tax is probably the real factor here).

Would I have paid $9599 vice the $8599 I paid for my tub, nope, that would have been more than the absolute top dollar I was willing to pay for a tub. Mind you that is probably the key factor for most people in the end, what is the most you can/are willing to pay, what is your budget?  Did I want to pay $7999 vice the $8529 I did pay, you bet!  Would I have been happier with that Jacuzzi 385 for $7950 vice the Vista at $8529. Yes, if after the long run the Jacuzzi was a better tub for me, but certainly not happier because I saved $679.00 for a product that was't for me.

To the dealers who are here on these boards.  Put the prices on your tubs. List an insane invoice price if you want, just make that sales price somewhere within $500 to $1000 of your BOTTOM line. You know what your bottom line is, you'll still make a profit or it wouldn't be your bottom line. This has to be the best business model to follow!  Is it worth losing a sale on the off chance that that one uniformed consumer will come in and pay list, or is it better to get the sale. With the advent of the internet and these types of boards you are going to have fewer and fewer "walk in's" that are going to pay list.  Ill bet in the long run you'll sell more tubs and have happier customers.

In closing, are you going to be miserable and not enjoy your tub if you paid $679 to much, or are you going to be more miserable going tubless, while you drive yourself crazy over a few hundred bucks and spend 5 more months on these boards to save that few hundred bucks.....my guess is the latter

Go buy that tub. If you really want one you will eventually buy one, so why delay the inevitable over a few hundred bucks.  

As Chas has so eloquently put it in the past, people do actually survive the purchace of a spa, I did  

*end long rant*

[bulmer4nc]

Very well put...

I have another question for dealers out there.  Do you make up the 'LIST' price or is this something that should be consistant across all dealers?  Is this something that the manufacturer sets?

I know that our Sundance dealer says the LIST price of a cameo / optima is 10,290.  I have no idea if this is the same as what other dealers are saying the list price is for that tub.  

[Brewman]

What gets me are the ones who are within say $400 or $500 on a $8000 or so purchse, and won't budge.  
Is that extra $400 really a deal buster?
Is it just the satisfaction of knowing that you got the upper hand?  Me, I'd rather be soaking now, then sit around dickering over a couple hundred bucks.

Brewman

[bodguy]

Brew,
I think it comes back to the bottom line I was talking about. I am sure every dealer has a bottom line they won't cross, the bottom line has to be somewhere correct?  Why the bottom line is where it is  only the dealer knows.

That $400.00 you are talking about is below that line even on the 8k tub.  There was no way I was going to get my Vista for $7999.  I knew they'd let me walk, right Vinny?

[Netnutty]

Bodguy,

I agree with you. Good post. I went through pretty much the same thing as you but I didn't say it so eloquently!

Netnutty

[dazedandconfused]

That is just more padding for the dealers pocket!  Why give it to him?

It is really upsetting for me to get prices that vary by 1000's, not 100's but 1000's, for the same spa!!!

Who wants to be brave enough to tell me cost out of the factory door?  I guess no one!  I realize dealers have costs and want to make a profit.  But why keep it secret?  In a way, there telling us by not doing so we are going to scr*w you on price!  Tubs do not cost $8k!

Oh wow!  I did not mean to open this can!

D/C

What gets me are the ones who are within say $400 or $500 on a $8000 or so purchse, and won't budge.  
Is that extra $400 really a deal buster?
Is it just the satisfaction of knowing that you got the upper hand?  Me, I'd rather be soaking now, then sit around dickering over a couple hundred bucks.

Brewman

[Spatech_tuo]

What gets me are the ones who are within say $400 or $500 on a $8000 or so purchse, and won't budge.  
 

It takes two to tango and if there is a gap its because BOTH sides won't budge so you can't question why one side alone won't move. The buyer has the option to say "no thanks, that's too much" and move on. Even if the customer really desires that particular spa they have to feel comfortable they are getting a fair deal. The dealer has the option to decide they need a certain margin and that's as low as they'll go.  There is a point where the dealer will decide they're better off with no deal than to take the customers final offer just to move the product.

Not all dealers are alike and it can be seen when two dealers selling the same spa brand can be vastly different to deal with. At the same time dealers know that not all customers are alike. I've seen people buy a top of the line spa and you get to their house and it’s a dump and you wonder how they even bought the spa (or rather why they didn't use the money to fix their shack). Then you go to a mansion and they bought an entry-level spa and act like they had to take a 2nd out to finance it and complain they paid too much.

[empolgation]

dealer "best price"/"bottom line" is the best kept secret in the spa purchase relationship.

Hot tubs are a leisure product marketed for discretionary income. There is no price regulation in the spa industry and won't be for a long time if ever. Dealers can set any price they want - it's a free market and consumers need to get over it if they want to be in the club.  

After shopping, the purchase process can be summarized as...

...set your budget, educate yourself as to what others are paying, set your best price and buy the tub you want that works for you from the dealer that you want to support

  - or -

... opt to go to a Costco/HomeDepot/"Big Box" store and purchase for the price on the tag.

Done

[dazedandconfused]

There are several Sundance dealers on this forum.  And their identity as to what store/state/etc they work is not known to us.  The beauty of this forum.  So --- what dealer wants to step forward and tell us their cost from the factory for a cameo/optima?

[empolgation]

Dazed, it seems like the club may not be for you; you should consider purchasing from a BigBox store - you just ain't "getting over it"...

[Ready2Buy1]

If you want to find out the actually out-the-door cost from the factory for an Optima/Cameo...may I suggest you pony up the $200,000 to $500,000 (just guessing here, so forgive me fellow business owners/dealers) in capital and resources and become an official Sundance Dealer (provided that you met all the requirements and Sundance would actually grant you a license to sell their product)...that way you will (may) eventually find the mirage of "true dealer profit" to satisfy your unquenchable thirst for it.

[txwillie]

I've been doing my homework and wet testing, etc. for 2 or 3 weeks now and have made my choice. Going back to the dealer in a week or so to negotiate and hopefully buy the thing. I've seen the "sticker" prices, but have never even asked what the "real" price will be. I'm expecting the negotiation will be about as much fun as buying a car, and I expect it to take up to a couple of hours, with at least one trip out the front door required.

I did a google search on the mfr and model of what I plan to buy, and to my surprise I got a hit/link to another forum that had posts from 3 others who had purchased that exact spa within the past month, with one of them who bought from the same dealer that I am using. Each was within $100. None of the posts listed what options/accessories they got (one just said "with alot of stuff" whatever that means). The price paid was 70% of the "sticker" price on the spa when I did my last test yesterday.

Hope this info doesn't upset any of the dealers.

Like many,  I got severe sticker shock the first dealer I went to. Just keep in mind that there is a LOT of negotiation room in that sticker price.

Good Luck!

Txwillie

[bodguy]

Okies Dazed and Confused, one of the main reasons I wrote this entire diatribe was to try to help you and others with price anxiety. I see it was futile in your case  

I really believe your are "needsaspa" under a new name, your last 2 posts are identical to his dealers cost rants from a few months ago.  If you are not needsaspa then I apologize for the accusation.

Whether you are or are not....try to follow me here.

I honestly believe my dealers cost on the spa I bought was probably between $5000 to $6000.  I honestly believe I paid a 35% to 45% markup.  I  REALLY believe this, and I am absolutely OK with that knowledge.

This guy owns or leases a building, either way he pays for it,  insures it, pays his employess, pays for his trucks and fuel, pays for the insurance and upkeep on the vehicles, pays interest on the inventory sitting on his floor, pays shipping on the spas that he has on the floor and in the warehouse, pays for the electricity and water for those spas on the floor, pays for that free coverlifter, steps and chemicals, pays for advertising, pays a franchise fee, pays for the warehouse I know he has, pays in advance for the inventory consumables he has to keep in stock, on and on and on.

If he's a smaller dealership he has a lower volume in sales, therefore he may need to charge more to cover costs.

If he's a larger dealership, his overhead costs are higher, but he may make up for it in sales volume.

How do people like you expect these people to stay in business. The people who sell hotubs have no where near the volume or probably repeat business of a car dealership. I would imagine repeat customers for a hotspring dealer maybe once every 10 years. I know we've argued the point before, but Im telling ya the average size spa dealer HAS TO make at LEAST 35% profit on a tub or they will go out of business.  Dang it all to hell I know I am right here, would one dealer PLEASE back me up on this.  

If you GOTTA know what the real cost from the factory is divide the price you paid by 35%.  Ill bet you a buck Im right + or - 10%

I asked Steve a few months ago when he was selling spas if he would sell me a Spa that cost HIM $5000 for $6500 (30%). He EMPHATICALLY stated NO!

If you cannot or refuse to comprehend what I am trying to tell you here , you will never own a tub IMHO.

And one last thing, If you are going to get hung up on $500 on an $8000.00 purchase, 6.25%, you probably cannot afford to be making that purchase to begin with or really don't have that strong of a desire to own this expensive type of  "Liesure" product.

[ltank]

I honestly believe you will find the mark-up is at 100%. I would say a $7000 tub actually has a dealer cost of around $3500. From my experience in car stereo, and other electronics, the markup ranged from 100-150%. I know for a fact that my spa dealer marks up all accessories at least 100%. He sold me a few extras, and upgrades at cost, and they were 50% of his asking price and less. I know his asking prices were competitive, because the only place I found cheaper was spadepot.com, and there price was in the ballpark.

[wetone]

How do people like you expect these people to stay in business. The people who sell hotubs have no where near the volume or probably repeat business of a car dealership. I would imagine repeat customers for a hotspring dealer maybe once every 10 years. I know we've argued the point before, but Im telling ya the average size spa dealer HAS TO make at LEAST 35% profit on a tub or they will go out of business.  Dang it all to hell I know I am right here, would one dealer PLEASE back me up on this.  

Well said.