Brand Specific Forums > Hot Spring Spas

Mistake on a Grandee scale.

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clover:

--- Quote from: NZArtist on July 31, 2014, 12:34:34 am ---What a disaster.....I decided on Hotspring because they're supposed to be high quality (ha!).....I decided on the Grandee because friends like to visit.  And I decided on the Ace saltwater chlorination system because the sales-person convinced me it would take my maintenance time down.....

On a positive note... The spa was delivered on time, and.....placed it in exactly the right spot.....then I discovered the first problem.  A 1200W heater is *way* under powered..... A few days after the spa was installed we had a wind storm, and I discovered the next problem with this spa.  The latches on the cover straps are useless, and the cover straps are very weak and can tear easily.....it had unlatched from two corners, and torn off the other two straps when the cover lifter slid the cover back.....the next problem is the Ace salt water cells.  I've had *two* fail in 18 months.....These cost $800 a piece. When this spa comes out of warranty the running costs are going to be prohibitive.....The service technician had the gall to suggest I wasn't maintaining the spa correctly. Both times I've run through the maintenance routine I have with him and neither time has be been able to say I've been neglecting anything.,,,,In servicing the Ace cell we noticed that the plumbing for this spa is leaking in two places - looks like the same seal on each of the two pump motors is crap.  Apparently this is a common problem.

The Hotspring Grandee spa is a giant waste of money.  It was overpriced to start with, and the running costs are prohibitive.  And it's not even a very good spa!  The heater is *way* underpowered, the design with all the jets and 'water features' is silly - no-one ever uses them anyway.  I only bought this model because it was *big*.  The quality is terrible.  The Ace system is a joke.
Regretting wasting the money.
DONT BUY THIS SPA!

--- End quote ---

Welcome NZArtist,  POST # 1 seems to be filled with anger and regret, and does not ask for a single recommendation for solving a problem, or seeking advice, but it does seem to be a vendetta reflecting great disappointment, I get that.  You are disgruntled to say the least over your decision during the evaluation process.


* You emphasize the cost of the ACE system that has been replaced twice, were they replaced under the warranty? or did they cost you $800 each?  Any water maintenance system, in any hot tub requires attention and understanding.  It seems obvious the "water" did not meet your expectations.  With so many friends using the spa, how can you begin to judge what they are putting into the water during their soak, remember, everyone gets out squeaky clean.
* Pump seals are subject to the conditions under which they operate.  If they run without water they will fail, and that would be a common problem, could this have contributed to the failure, and were they replaced under warranty?
* As for the cover latches, they do not unlatch themselves, and when different people open the cover, it is a common problem for them to "forget, or not think" to unlatch the back latches when opening the cover.  Of course they are going to rip and tear determined by the force exerted if they are not unlatched when sliding the cover back with a force greater than their strength.  This is hardly a fault of the cover, but certainly a disappointment to the owner.
* Now you speak of your choice disparagingly claiming it is overpriced, not even a good spa that you only wanted because it was "big", and the amenities are "silly", but still you spent a very large sum of money.  I am puzzled how this passed your evaluation process during your shopping experience.
* As for the under powered heater, Isaac-1 makes a very good point worthy of recognizing.  What is the maximum amp capacity in your electrical service?  And if you think your running cost are "prohibitive" now, do you think a larger heater is going to make you happy?First, I am not defending a brand, but you must have been happy at some point during this process, but you are certainly filled with anger now.  With 10's of thousand of Grandee's in service, it is so hard to understand how one could be so deficient, but apparently it must be yours.  :(

HOW CAN WE HELP YOU? :-\

GGRANDEE:
Clover, you are spot on!! I have owned a Grandee for over a year now and it has exceeded my expectations. Sorry to hear NZArtist is experiencing big problems, but I sure am glad I live in NY ;)

NZArtist:
The Cells were replaced under warranty.  Warranty runs out in six months. I've had two cells in 18 months. I extrapolated the ongoing costs out of warranty will be $800 every nine months for a replacement cell.  The branded Hotspring chemicals are outrageous - for example the 1kg of salt required on refilling the spa is circa US$22.  Generic brand is circa $1.00 per kg.
The pump has never been operated without water.  I rarely run the jets at all because it cools the spa too quickly.  They're mostly run for a cleaning cycle (about once every two days, or when several people have used the spa).
I check the chemical balance of the spa once a week.  Clean the filters once a month.  Clean the cell once.... but it fails before I get to the second cleaning.  I drain, scrub, refill, and rebalance the spa once every six months.
The power supply here is 240V, 100 Amp, and I got a 25 Amp dedicated supply wired to the spa.  As the heater doesn't run at the same time as the jets there is *oodles* of spare capacity.  Even my kitchen kettle can have twice as powerful a heater than this spa, apparently.  (By Breville appliances.  They're excellent.) .  The cost of running a more powerful heater will only be marginally higher than running the underpowered one because it will only be running when the spa is under temperature.  The powerful one will still pump the same Joules of energy into the water to raise the temperature.  It will just do it faster.  The advantages will be after refilling the spa - hours instead of days.  And soaking in the winter where it will keep the water warmer for longer.
The cover latches were definitely latched.  I checked them myself before bed as it was starting to get windy.  The design is poor and the ones I used to replace (different brand of spa) have been flawless.  The vinyl straps are flimsy and ripped in half. The replacement nylon webbing straps are much more robust.
No, my friends aren't dirty. Thanks for the suggestion.
No, the water quality here isn't bad.  It's rainwater, triple-filtered and UV sterilized, before it even got to the spa. The softening teabag didn't even realize it was in water, it's so soft.  The indicator strips flash on the setting "Fluffy Kitten Soft" when I use them, every week.
Yes, I spent a large sum of money.  I was fooled by the marketing buzz.  I was also fooled by the excellent quality of my cheaper spa which I owned for years.  It had two shortcomings - too small and thrice-weekly balancing.  I kind of thought (stupidly, I readily admit!) a more expensive brand would have the basic functionality well established, while giving me the added features of larger size and less maintenance time.  I really didn't expect the name-brand spa to have such poor quality.
Okay, I got the lemon. The spa made on the Friday before the long weekend.  I also got the two lemon Ace cells.  Looking forward to the third Ace cell having been made on a Tuesday.  I also got the salespeople and technicians made on a Friday who keep assuming it's something I'm doing to the spa (or my filthy friends).

As I say, this isn't the first spa I've owned.  And I guess it wont be the last.  But the next one sure as hell wont be a Hotspring spa. 

NZArtist:

--- Quote from: wmccall on July 31, 2014, 07:14:50 am ---I would say Welcome to the forum, but I fear your only here to bash the spa and move on. Oh, heck Welcome to the forum.  Dozens or so Grandee tub owners her would disagree with your generalization.  However, I do have to ask the group, or people in the know,  1.2kw heater? Could that be true? That would seem to be seriously under powered.

--- End quote ---

The forum is named "What's the best hot tub".  If I'm having a bad experience with a brand of hot tub isn't this the perfect place to let others know?
In keeping with the mission of this forum:  The Grandee hot tub from Hotspring is *so* not the best hot tub.
And regarding the heater...  Yes.  Yes it's true.  The heater is around half the power of my kitchen kettle (which runs happily off a 10Amp standard 240V wall socket and can be purchased from any appliance store).
Power is Volts x Amps.  Amps = Power / Volts.  My 2200W kettle uses around 9 amps.  The 1200 W heater in my spa uses 5 amps.  The spa heater doesn't run while the jets are running (according to the Hotspring spec sheet) so I have 20 spare amps lying around wondering why I spent the money on the upgraded supply.

Okay, look, I really don't begrudge the actual money. I regret looking like an idiot.  I regret the added stress of wondering when I'll have to clean out the black flakes spat into the pool from the Ace cell.  I regret my friends being 'understanding' about the spa instead of just enjoying it.  I regret the water going cold when I'm listening to Jazz under the stars with friends.  I regret the fact I've had to re-engineer aspects of the spa when I spent the money specifically to avoid that.  I regret dealing with technicians and salespeople who treat me like an idiot for the faults in their spa, when they should be treating me like an idiot for buying their brand.  I regret my experience with the hardware poisoning my relaxation in the spa. This thing is causing me stress which is the antithesis of its intended purpose.  I regret buying the name brand instead of the local generic brand.

Money is just money.  It's all the other stuff that's annoying me.

NZArtist:
Action plan:

1) After this weekend (I have a guest staying who will probably enjoy a spa), drain the spa and get the pump seals replaced.
2) In six months the spa will be out of warranty.  There's a 3kW after-market heater available. What will I wreck on the spa if I upgrade the heater?
3) If the current replacement Ace cell fails again in 8 months, when the spa will be out of warranty, I'm going to ditch the Ace system. What can I replace it with and what's going to go wrong? What're the pros, cons, and maintenance issues with whatever comes next?

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