Which manufacturer makes the best engineered tubs? Marquis, D1, Bullfrog, other?

[steel_3d]

The Sundance dealer, whose tubs use UV, told me that CD degrades plastic and rubber components faster. Is this a big enough drawback? Why did Sundance switch to UV? I assume they were using CD before...

Off-topic, but there have been studies showing that ozone reaction byproducts are harmful to health. Have any studies been done on the health effects of hot tub ozone?

[steel_3d]

And if we could get back on topic and tell me which of these models/manufacturers you'd choose on the basis of reliability, maintainability and efficiency.

Thanks

[Spoiledrotten]

If given a choice select CD Ozone.


From:
http://www.ozoneapplications.com/info/cd_vs_uv.htm

Also, Consider using Nature2 or similar.  It can reduce your chemical levels required to achieve proper sanitation.

I don't think I'm highjacking here but concerning the Nature2, does that make the reading of strips different, or do you just have to guess at how much to cut back on chems? I'm interested in trying the Nature2, but I don't know how to tell how much it actually helps in the chemical part.

The claim is you can run as low as .5 ppm of free chlorine with an N2 cartridge in place (following all guides for use).

Thank you, vango!

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

The Sundance dealer, whose tubs use UV, told me that CD degrades plastic and rubber components faster. Is this a big enough drawback? Why did Sundance switch to UV? I assume they were using CD before...

Off-topic, but there have been studies showing that ozone reaction byproducts are harmful to health. Have any studies been done on the health effects of hot tub ozone?

I can't speak of any specific studies but I know I did sell a tub about 6 months ago and the lady wanted us to disconnect the factory installed ozone before we delivered it.  I didn't really get into specifics but she claimed respiratory issues with breathing in ozone could lead to some serious problems for her.  This is the first time I've heard anything about it, so I'd have to do a little more research

[Spatech_tuo]

And if we could get back on topic and tell me which of these models/manufacturers you'd choose on the basis of reliability, maintainability and efficiency.

Thanks

There is no "best" spa manufacturer so if you're hoping someone can tell you which is "the one" it just can't happen though there will certainly be opinions on the matter. For instance my short list would include Caldera, D1, Hot Springs, Jacuzzi and Sundance but while others may have similar lists they will from person to person and some may just list a single maker. Just be sure those on your short list aren't on the "stay the hell away from them" list lol. In the end wet test and go with what makes the most sense to you. Listen to the sales people but always remember they have a sales pitch and have a stake in your desicion so when they tell you why theirs is better listen and ask questions but keep a degree of skepticism handy.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

I can't speak of any specific studies but I know I did sell a tub about 6 months ago and the lady wanted us to disconnect the factory installed ozone before we delivered it.  I didn't really get into specifics but she claimed respiratory issues with breathing in ozone could lead to some serious problems for her.  This is the first time I've heard anything about it, so I'd have to do a little more research

Over the years, I've actually heard this with some frequency. Specifically people that were having asthma attacks while using or near their spas. Disconnecting the ozonator stopped the attacks. Ozone is a KNOW respiratory "irritant" and, the EPA considers ozone as a dangerous  air pollutant (google, epa ozone regulations).

[Sam]

My personal opinion is that Bullfrog spas has the most revolutionary design in the entire industry.  From top to bottom, they have created an extremely well made spa that offers unparalleled hydrotherapy.  Fyi, the jetpaks do not take away from inside space.  As a matter of fact, they create more space.  If you compare tubs of the same overall size, the Bullfrog will most likely contain more gallons.  For example;

The hot spring pulse is 7'5" x 7'5" x 38".  The Bullfrog A7 is 7'4" x 7'4" x 36" which is a little bit smaller.  The hot spring has 380 gallons and the smaller Bullfrog has 430 gallons.  This is yet another advantage to the JetPak design.  The manifold on the back of the JetPaks is lower profile than traditional plumbing and fittings.

http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/limelight/pulse

http://www.bullfrogspas.com/listings/display/140/40/a7


As to wood frames, there was just a thread the other day where a guy was asking about replacing a rotted wood frame component.  Wood rots, plain and simple.  Metal rusts.  Plastic will not rust, rot or corrode. 

ABS bottom is also a good thing.  It keeps moisture, rodents, and insects out of the hot tub.  Also, without this, a wood framed hot tub will have wood directly touching the ground.  I have replaced hundreds of older wood tubs with no abs base and many of them had evidence of rodents and rotting wood.  Sometimes they just fall apart when you try to pick them up. Hot Spring at least uses treated wood for their base, and hard foam to seal the bottom.  Last I saw one though, the rest of the wood was not treated.

I'm not saying that the other tubs listed are not good.  In fact, as mentioned earlier, they have excellent reputations for a reason.  Having seen Bullfrog Spas dismissed here by some of the other guys, I just want to make sure that they are accurately represented.  In the last 7-8 years, Bullfrog has really stepped up their game.  They are an amazing hot tub and my favorite hands down.  For the record, I have worked with most of the other listed tubs over the last 17 years.

As to circ pumps, there is one factor that is never discussed.  As far as I know, Circ pumps are generally in a closed loop, meaning that they do not tie into the rest of the jet plumbing.  This means that when the circ pump is running, the water in the jet lines is not being circulated.  That water only gets moved when jet pump kicks on.  This may have been addressed by some manufacturers, but as far as I know, this is how most systems with a circ pump work.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  I'm not saying this is a reason to avoid circ pumps, it is just another factor that I don't see accounted for in discussions.

[TwinCitiesHotSpring]

My personal opinion is that Bullfrog spas has the most revolutionary design in the entire industry.  From top to bottom, they have created an extremely well made spa that offers unparalleled hydrotherapy.  Fyi, the jetpaks do not take away from inside space.  As a matter of fact, they create more space.  If you compare tubs of the same overall size, the Bullfrog will most likely contain more gallons.  For example;

The hot spring pulse is 7'5" x 7'5" x 38".  The Bullfrog A7 is 7'4" x 7'4" x 36" which is a little bit smaller.  The hot spring has 380 gallons and the smaller Bullfrog has 430 gallons.  This is yet another advantage to the JetPak design.  The manifold on the back of the JetPaks is lower profile than traditional plumbing and fittings.

http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/limelight/pulse

http://www.bullfrogspas.com/listings/display/140/40/a7


As to wood frames, there was just a thread the other day where a guy was asking about replacing a rotted wood frame component.  Wood rots, plain and simple.  Metal rusts. Plastic will not rust, rot or corrode. 

ABS bottom is also a good thing.  It keeps moisture, rodents, and insects out of the hot tub.  Also, without this, a wood framed hot tub will have wood directly touching the ground.  I have replaced hundreds of older wood tubs with no abs base and many of them had evidence of rodents and rotting wood.  Sometimes they just fall apart when you try to pick them up. Hot Spring at least uses treated wood for their base, and hard foam to seal the bottom.  Last I saw one though, the rest of the wood was not treated.

I'm not saying that the other tubs listed are not good.  In fact, as mentioned earlier, they have excellent reputations for a reason.  Having seen Bullfrog Spas dismissed here by some of the other guys, I just want to make sure that they are accurately represented.  In the last 7-8 years, Bullfrog has really stepped up their game.  They are an amazing hot tub and my favorite hands down.  For the record, I have worked with most of the other listed tubs over the last 17 years.

As to circ pumps, there is one factor that is never discussed.  As far as I know, Circ pumps are generally in a closed loop, meaning that they do not tie into the rest of the jet plumbing.  This means that when the circ pump is running, the water in the jet lines is not being circulated.  That water only gets moved when jet pump kicks on.  This may have been addressed by some manufacturers, but as far as I know, this is how most systems with a circ pump work.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  I'm not saying this is a reason to avoid circ pumps, it is just another factor that I don't see accounted for in discussions.

Plastic has it downsides...Hot Springs went to a plastic frame for almost year in '08-'09....it was pulled because the engineers didn't like its performance in the field...I believe one of the main issues was expansion/contraction in varied weather climates.  Apparently they are working on something new for upcoming years...bottom line in my opinion is the material doesn't matter as much on its own, its more how the spa is built overall

[Tman122]

My personal opinion is that Bullfrog spas has the most revolutionary design in the entire industry.  From top to bottom, they have created an extremely well made spa that offers unparalleled hydrotherapy.  Fyi, the jetpaks do not take away from inside space.  As a matter of fact, they create more space.  If you compare tubs of the same overall size, the Bullfrog will most likely contain more gallons.  For example;

The hot spring pulse is 7'5" x 7'5" x 38".  The Bullfrog A7 is 7'4" x 7'4" x 36" which is a little bit smaller.  The hot spring has 380 gallons and the smaller Bullfrog has 430 gallons.  This is yet another advantage to the JetPak design.  The manifold on the back of the JetPaks is lower profile than traditional plumbing and fittings.

http://www.hotspring.com/shop-hot-tub-models/limelight/pulse

http://www.bullfrogspas.com/listings/display/140/40/a7


As to wood frames, there was just a thread the other day where a guy was asking about replacing a rotted wood frame component.  Wood rots, plain and simple.  Metal rusts.  Plastic will not rust, rot or corrode. 

ABS bottom is also a good thing.  It keeps moisture, rodents, and insects out of the hot tub.  Also, without this, a wood framed hot tub will have wood directly touching the ground.  I have replaced hundreds of older wood tubs with no abs base and many of them had evidence of rodents and rotting wood.  Sometimes they just fall apart when you try to pick them up. Hot Spring at least uses treated wood for their base, and hard foam to seal the bottom.  Last I saw one though, the rest of the wood was not treated.

I'm not saying that the other tubs listed are not good.  In fact, as mentioned earlier, they have excellent reputations for a reason.  Having seen Bullfrog Spas dismissed here by some of the other guys, I just want to make sure that they are accurately represented.  In the last 7-8 years, Bullfrog has really stepped up their game.  They are an amazing hot tub and my favorite hands down.  For the record, I have worked with most of the other listed tubs over the last 17 years.

As to circ pumps, there is one factor that is never discussed.  As far as I know, Circ pumps are generally in a closed loop, meaning that they do not tie into the rest of the jet plumbing.  This means that when the circ pump is running, the water in the jet lines is not being circulated.  That water only gets moved when jet pump kicks on.  This may have been addressed by some manufacturers, but as far as I know, this is how most systems with a circ pump work.  Please correct me if I am wrong.  I'm not saying this is a reason to avoid circ pumps, it is just another factor that I don't see accounted for in discussions.

I'm glad you said "in my personal opinion" at the beginning.

[vangoghsear]

One other plug for Bullfrog.

When I bought mine and the guy came to set it up, I went out to talk with him.  He said he was recruited by the Spa dealer because of his experience and skills in spa and pool installation (he is their main spa installer and pool construction supervisor).

He told me one of his conditions for going to work for them, was that they take on Bullfrog Spas as a line.  He insisted on it, he said, because of how well they were designed and built.  He told me the dealer at his urging checked out Bullfrog and liked it so much they became a Bullfrog dealer.

It's hearsay, I know, but that's what he told me.

[steel_3d]

Sam, what is your opinion of D1 and Marquis in terms of reliability and maintainability?

I'll be checking out the bullfrog dealer this weekend. Hope they're not completely out of my price range.

[Sam]

D1 and Marquis are great spas.  Very reliable and certainly should be in the discussion along side other high-end tubs.  I have not seen either of them in a few years, so I am unsure of the current designs, but they have a reputation for being among the best.

[MarKee]

The Marquis is pretty hard to beat when it comes to fit and finish.  Great filtration system, construction, warranty, and a company that is known for standing behind the product.  The other ones you are looking at are good options as well, make sure to look "under the hood".  Good luck in your search.

[Bonibelle]

I can only speak from my experience with Marquis... I have an Epic originally purchased in 2005. There was an issue with the shell and in 2008, Marquis replaced my tub. Just last month, the back light in my control panel went so that meant a replacement. The cost was $500.00 but that was the first issue that I paid to resolve in almost 8 years of ownership. The warranty is great and I had no problems with service. I think that is a reflection of an excellent dealer as well as a quality product.

My tub is very efficient and I run all winter in Economy mode. That means that the tub only runs and filters at manually set times (I set mine for two times a day a total of 3 hours ). My tub does not have a circ pump and therefore in standard mode it would circulate the water and maintain the temperature using one of the main pumps. I live in Pennsylvania and we do get cold winters, but I am able to maintain temperature and keep a very clean tub in economy mode.

I have the spa frog and use bromine. It is built into the tub and does a great job. I left the tub for 18 days and it was perfect when we returned.

We chose the Epic because of the amazing therapy that the tub offered. That was my first consideration. It is also large and can accommodate 5 to 6 adults with no problem.

I can honestly say I would buy another Marquis, based on my experience, but I really expect this tub to last a long time.  Hope this helps

[Tman122]

Marquis has very nice jets. Are they still using the HK's? Or what ever they were called.