Does Anyone Have First-Hand Experience With 110V Hot Tubs?

[pacificnw]

After much research, I narrowed my tub choices down to the Beachcomber 321 and 340 models. However, I need some feedback from people who have had first-hand experience using [any] 110v hot tub in a moderately cold climate.

I live in Vancouver BC (the Pacific Northwest), where nighttime temperatures in the winter are around 30F-32F. I'd like to be able to use the hot tub for 45-60 minutes at a time with one other person. Installing a 220v hot tub legally is simply not an option. The cost of upgrading our 100 amp service would be astronomical, not to mention all the permits and inspections, and we simply don't have enough amperage available now to accommodate another 40 amps.

One electrician offered to do an illegal hookup (by just running the cable around the house like a garden hose for ~$700). That's not only dangerous, but it would also void our house insurance. Although there's no way I'm going to do that, I'm guessing that at least half the hot tub owners around here aren't complying with regulations.

Beachcomber is a local company (headquartered about 30 minutes from where I live), so you'd think they'd design a tub that would work well in this climate, 110v or otherwise, but everyone I've talked to (except for the hot tub salespeople) says to avoid 110v hot tubs. They suggest the temperature will drop off like a rock after 10-20 minutes.

My understanding is the heater will operate when the pumps are on low, but will I find the jets to be too low powered? I'm not looking for a fantastic massage or a tub to throw long parties in. I just like sitting in hot fizzy water for an hour each night.

So can anyone substantiate these claims? I'd really like to get a hot tub, but I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars if I'm only going to get 20 minutes of use out of it.

Thanks in advance!

[goose973]

My experience comes from a tub that my folks had several years ago. It was 110v and utilized a friction heater. In other words, the water got hot by the main pump pushing the water through a set of tubes that are specifically designed to make the water turbulent and heat it up before returning it to the tub. You could use the jets on high and get heat. That was the only way to get heat, really. In the cold with the cover off, the tub did a miserable job at holding temp. I recall losing around 2-3 degrees in 20 minutes. When not in use, it ran a lot to hold temp even with the cover on. It really was a crappy tub, though. Not well insulated, no-name components, etc. I say "was" because it wore out two pumps and a control pack as well as sprung two leaks all in around 3 years. I don't even know the manufacturer, but I know they don't even make them anymore. Dad couldn't get parts anymore, and we hauled it to the dump.

I would advise you to avoid a tub without a real heater (or one from a no-name builder) for the above reasons. If all you want is warm water with some fizz, then you might be OK in the winter. It kind-of sounds like you really want a tub, though. So, if all you can do is 110, then just make sure by testing one that you are OK with the jet action on low before you buy. The only thing worse than getting no tub is paying a lot of money for a tub you don't like or use. Good luck!

[Hot Spring Ace]

My experience comes from a tub that my folks had several years ago. It was 110v and utilized a friction heater. In other words, the water got hot by the main pump pushing the water through a set of tubes that are specifically designed to make the water turbulent and heat it up before returning it to the tub. You could use the jets on high and get heat. That was the only way to get heat, really. In the cold with the cover off, the tub did a miserable job at holding temp. I recall losing around 2-3 degrees in 20 minutes. When not in use, it ran a lot to hold temp even with the cover on. It really was a crappy tub, though. Not well insulated, no-name components, etc. I say "was" because it wore out two pumps and a control pack as well as sprung two leaks all in around 3 years. I don't even know the manufacturer, but I know they don't even make them anymore. Dad couldn't get parts anymore, and we hauled it to the dump.

I would advise you to avoid a tub without a real heater (or one from a no-name builder) for the above reasons. If all you want is warm water with some fizz, then you might be OK in the winter. It kind-of sounds like you really want a tub, though. So, if all you can do is 110, then just make sure by testing one that you are OK with the jet action on low before you buy. The only thing worse than getting no tub is paying a lot of money for a tub you don't like or use. Good luck!

Most 110V spas do come with a heater and work well in most climates though they do have limiations compared to 220V spas which is the best setup but sometimes the spa owner has issues with running 220V. I agree that you want a spa with a heater, those small spas that have no heater and use a  friction pump can be fine but only if you're talking about places like California, Nevada, Arizona...

[Hot Spring Ace]

After much research, I narrowed my tub choices down to the Beachcomber 321 and 340 models. However, I need some feedback from people who have had first-hand experience using [any] 110v hot tub in a moderately cold climate.

I live in Vancouver BC (the Pacific Northwest), where nighttime temperatures in the winter are around 30F-32F. I'd like to be able to use the hot tub for 45-60 minutes at a time with one other person. Installing a 220v hot tub legally is simply not an option. The cost of upgrading our 100 amp service would be astronomical, not to mention all the permits and inspections, and we simply don't have enough amperage available now to accommodate another 40 amps.

One electrician offered to do an illegal hookup (by just running the cable around the house like a garden hose for ~$700). That's not only dangerous, but it would also void our house insurance. Although there's no way I'm going to do that, I'm guessing that at least half the hot tub owners around here aren't complying with regulations.

Beachcomber is a local company (headquartered about 30 minutes from where I live), so you'd think they'd design a tub that would work well in this climate, 110v or otherwise, but everyone I've talked to (except for the hot tub salespeople) says to avoid 110v hot tubs. They suggest the temperature will drop off like a rock after 10-20 minutes.

My understanding is the heater will operate when the pumps are on low, but will I find the jets to be too low powered? I'm not looking for a fantastic massage or a tub to throw long parties in. I just like sitting in hot fizzy water for an hour each night.

So can anyone substantiate these claims? I'd really like to get a hot tub, but I'm not going to spend thousands of dollars if I'm only going to get 20 minutes of use out of it.

Thanks in advance!

Hot Spring has made 110V spas for years so I understand them well and they work well but you have to understand the limitations which you mostly do and your climate isn't too bad. The heater will come on if the jet pump is on low but those jets on low are not therapeutic really so its almost like being in the tub with the jets off but if you like hot water it'll be fine and you can run it on high maybe about a third of the time you are in it though an hour is stretching it when your temps are their lowest. Some 110V spas are that way period while some are made to be convertible meaning you can run them either way allowing the owner to upgrade if they so choose. I'm not sure of Beachcomber but if possible why not get a convertible type and start out running it 110V to see if it works for you and if it doesn't you can plan the subpanel upgrade later on.

[pacificnw]

Thank you both for replying. It's good to hear everyone's experiences because (at the moment) I don't know anyone who owns a 110v hot tub, so there's no way for me to test one outside of a store.

Beachcomber is a high-end brand that competes with Hot Springs / Hot Spot (at least in Canada), so quality shouldn't be an issue. They're supposed to be heavily insulated, and both the 321 (round tub) and 340 have a separate heater. The 340 actually comes as 220v by default, but the factory can switch it to 110v upon request. The 321 comes as 110v by default (I believe), but I've seen literature that says it can be setup for 220v.

Yes, I'd quite like to have my own hot tub, but I'm only willing to buy a quality brand (like Beachcomber or Hot Spring/Hot Spot) to avoid getting a lemon. Of course that means paying more for the product...

I guess I'll have to wait until I find someone that owns a 110v unit around here, so I can see it operating outside, at night.

[Hottubguy]

I have a nordic retreat on 110 iin Massachusetts where it gets pretty cold in the winter.  If I use it with the jets on high speed got 30 minutes the temp will drop a couple of degrees. I like it around a 100 degrees so I set it a little warmer in the winter months. As far as cost to run it I have noticed almost no change n my summer electricity bill and about 30-40 dollars more n the winter

[pacificnw]

Thanks for sharing your experience, Hottubguy. Those numbers sound reasonable, and your winters would be colder than here. (Right now we're above freezing.) I've heard Nordic is good. I will have to look into those.

[pacificnw]

I may have found a compromise: place the hot tub in a greenhouse. While it's not a substitute for a 220v tub, the greenhouse should slow down the heat loss enough to get some more time out of each session, say 45 minutes instead of 20-30. Thoughts? Our nights are currently above freezing (i.e. today = high 43F / low 37F).

[Spatech_tuo]

I may have found a compromise: place the hot tub in a greenhouse. While it's not a substitute for a 220v tub, the greenhouse should slow down the heat loss enough to get some more time out of each session, say 45 minutes instead of 20-30. Thoughts? Our nights are currently above freezing (i.e. today = high 43F / low 37F).

That would work but if you don't already have a geren house I wouldn't buy one just yet. I'd first try it as is and then add it later if you think you need it based on your expereinece because unless you're running those jets a lot you might be just fine in your climate.

[chk1313]

I am also looking, are the jets in the 110V necessarily less powerful than a 220?

CH

[pacificnw]

Thanks for the suggestion, Spatech_tuo. There are some fairly inexpensive prefab greenhouse out there for under $1,000, so I'm just starting to look into this.

CH, I think it depends on the make and model, but in general, the jets might be a bit less powerful due to the smaller pumps they use. That said, a Hot Spring / Hot Spot dealer was showing me one (it was either the SX or Bolt) and it had pretty powerful jets. The salesperson said it was a 110v unit.

Any warnings I've received from people had more to do with the heater not running while the jets are on full, rather than the jets themselves being a problem. Unfortunately, it's not easy to demo a 110v unit. When the stores do have them on the floor, they're usually empty. Naturally the showrooms focus more on displaying their higher-end products, which are almost always 220v tubs.

[Dr. Spa™ Ret.]

No has yet to ask.....why not just put in a 220v spa? Most 110v spas require a 20a circuit and code requires a dedicated circuit as well.. In most cases that means that even for a 110v spa, you STILL have to run a new dedicated circuit to it.

[pacificnw]

Most cities, including the one I live in, require you to submit a permit application to the city when you install a hot tub or pool. It's something most salespeople I've encountered avoid mentioning, and I doubt most people file for the permit, anyway. But there are certain requirements you're supposed to meet: for pools your fence must be a certain minimum height; for hot tubs you must either meet the fencing requirement [or] have a locking cover on your tub. They also want to know if you're going to put the tub on a deck that is over 2' in height. After you submit your plan, they will have someone come out and inspect your installation to make sure it meets those basic requirements. However, the city does [not] do an inspection on your electrical system, nor do they ask about wiring on your application. In fact, they're more concerned that you're not going to drain your chlorinated water into the sewer system. I know this because I've been talking to them.

Here, if you decide to install a 220v line, then your electrician is supposed to submit a permit/inspection application to another safety board who sends someone out to check [only] that new line for compliance. (I've talked to that department too.) The safety inspector then submits his findings to the city. But again, this process is only necessary if you're upgrading your electrical system, and it's a separate issue from the hot tub / pool permit. I agree that you want it on a dedicated circuit, though, but the tubs I'm looking at are 15 amp, not 20.

I [could] put in a 220v spa. There are plenty of electricians who are willing to do an illegal install for a few hundred dollars. However, I won't be able to get a hot tub permit from the city, which would mean a huge fine if I'm caught. It also pretty much voids my house insurance if anything like a fire happens.

My house currently has 100 amp service. We have a washer and dryer, electric hot water tank, and electric heaters. The electricians have assured me that, although we could technically handle the 220v/40 amp tub on our existing system, it would not meet the saftey codes. To do that we would need to upgrade to 200 amps by running another line from the street. That would cost a minimum of $3,000 to even get started.

I agree 220v tubs are superior, but they're simply not an option for some people. Maybe down the road if I find I love hot tubbing that much, I may decide to upgrade my electrical service. But when you're just starting out, it's too steep an investment.

Believe me, it's been an extremely frustrating process. Nothing like the sales pitches!

[sorebikr]

Your frustration comes through loud and clear.  However, none of those requirements are that arduous or out of the norm.  In my case, the cover didn't need to lock, but it needed to be rated at a certain level so that small children could walk across it.  Little did I know at the time that virtually all covers are now made to this standard.  As for locking?  Yeah, that'll cost you $5.  Maybe ten.  The decking?  Well, decks need to have railings if they're over 2' high.  Not a crazy requirement either. 

Upgrading the electrical can be a pain in the butt, had to do it on an old house that used to have an illegal apt and had two 60amp boxes on the house.  Even though that was over 100amps of service, it was no longer code and needed to be replaced, so we went ahead with upgrading to 200amp service.  Like you said, the whole job was around $3500.  (It shouldn't be $3k just to get the line to the house). 

His ask about "why not a 220 tub" wasn't meant to antagonize.  And there are good 110 tubs out there.  There also happens to be 2 or 3 active threads right now where people have cheaper tubs, that happen to be 110, that can't keep up with this cold snap.  So we were just curious about your situation.

[pacificnw]

Sorry if that came across as angry. It wasn't intended to be. I was just explaining that I've done as much research as I can reasonably do, and I've determined there are only two options available: 110v or no tub. I don't know if the upgrade and line can be installed for $3,500 (rates can vary greatly by region), but it would also create quite a mess, as they'd need to cut out portions of our basement wall and ceiling. I'm also told that the 220v line has to be buried at least 2' underground, which with the hard rocky/clay soil we have would be no small task.

I'm not concerned about the city's permit requirements. As you said, most hot tub manufacturers already make their covers up to code, and Beachcomber's covers include the mandatory locks. I'm also no putting the hot tub on a deck, but I understand their concerns about decks over 2' in height. The only thing I find challenging is their asking for "three sets of plans." It's been years since I've worked with AutoCAD, and it seems a bit overkill for a portable hot tub (that can be moved around). I'm planning to talk to them in person, as the woman on the phone said they'd help walk me through the process.

I'm probably going to purchase a tub with the smallest volume of water necessary for heating (i.e. the round 321 model which is about 60 gallons less than the rectangular 340 model). Although we had some colder 32F nights last week, the temps can be as high as 50F in the day and 40F at night, as they have been these last two days, so I wouldn't really class this area as an extremely cold climate.