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Jacuzzi Premium versus Sundance

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Chris_H:
All,
     Sometimes I get really frustrated when people are discussing why Jacuzzi Premium is on par with Sundance.  Pool and spa dealers will agree that Jacuzzi Premium is not on par with Sundance.  Consumers however can not see the $1,000 to $2,000 dollar difference between the Sundance Optima and a Jacuzzi 385.  
The components are absolutely not the same, the plumbing and jets are absolutely not the same, and the filtration is absolutely not the same.  
The Jacuzzi Premium uses a stainless steel heating element.  This element is the same element used in the Sweetwater Spas brand.  Would anyone like to debate this fact because I will take one of my Sweetwater Spas heating elements to your Jacuzzi Premium element and they we can have a discussion.  Sundance has an unconditional warranty on their Titanium heating element; hence the warranty on the Sundance is also better than the Jacuzzi Premium.  How much is this type of element worth to you with the unconditional warranty?  Is it worth an extra $300 or $400 more especially with an unconditional warranty?
I truly believe the pumps on the Jacuzzi Premium and the Sundance are the same even if the pumps inside the Jacuzzi Premium have a sticker that says “Jacuzzi” on them.  This weekend I did not have an opportunity to remove the panel of my competitors cabinet, but I will this upcoming weekend.
     This however does not explain why when one puts the diverter on half way you can only feel a trickle of water coming out on the Jacuzzi 385 with the pump that runs the seat with the “PowerPro MX jets.”  The seat only has 3 of these jets, but this pump controls three or four (I believe it is four) of the seats in the J-385.  Why is it that when the diverter is on half way so all three or four seats get water action can you only feel a trickle of water coming from the “PowerPro MX” seat, as well as, the 3 other seats using this pump?  I would really like someone to explain how this is seriously not worth an extra $500 or $600 more dollars.  My only explanation is that the plumbing is extremely inefficient and ineffective in the Jacuzzi Premium or Jacuzzi Premium is using extremely inefficient jets.  Would someone like to debate me on this?  I believe this is what Wisoki has been talking about in his rants against Jacuzzi Premium.
     The filtration on the Sundance is much more effective than the Jacuzzi Premium.  There are two reasons this is the case.  Reason number one is the Sundance uses the “Micro-Clean” cartridge that is NSF certified.  Jacuzzi Premium does not use this.  No debate necessary, it is a fact.  
     Secondly, Sundance uses a weir plate that moves up and down (not side to side), this is going to trap debris and body oils and not allow them to be sent back into the spa when removing the filters when there is water in the spa.  The Jacuzzi Premium to remove the filters you must remove a plate to remove the filters.  Removing the plate will immediately allow some/most of the debris and oils to immediately go back into the spa when removing the filters because by removing this plate you are immediately opening the filters up to the rest of the spa.  The Sundance keeps the dirty stuff away from the rest of the spa.   I really don’t know how much this is worth to someone, but if it takes 20 or 30 minutes less a month to keep the Sundance spa clear and clean because now instead of cleaning the body oils all around the spa in the Jacuzzi Premium, I now only have to clean the skimmer area in the Sundance.  I know how much my time is worth, but how much is it worth to you?  Is this 20 or 30 minutes a month worth an extra $1,500 dollars more for the Sundance Optima?  I guess that is for the consumers to decide.
     I hope this opens up for a great debate, and I can’t wait for it.
Chris H.

Wisoki:
10-4 good buddy. I dont think anybody is saying the plumbing, jets and filtration are the same, not me anyhow. Component wise though, open up your (any) Jacuzzi Premium Spa, then open up the controll box and look at the printed circuit board. On the left side just below center it plainly reads "Sundance spa controller." The top sides may look different (slightly) but function identically. The pumps, let me clarify my statements from before. Sundance has been useing Jacuzzi BROTHERS® pumps for quite some time. Pumps that are designed to work with the sundance spas. Take those same pumps and put them on a JPS spa, and you get the pathetic performance you were speaking about. Those pumps are designed to work with the type, and size jets in a Sundance spa. They are NOT equiped with the volume water flow the Jacuzzi Whirlpool Bath® pump were/are and therefore CANNOT operate the PowerPro MX (or whatever they changed the name to this time) jets without diverting all of the water to them.

tony:
Excellent information Chris H and Wisoki.  I have had the oportunity to see both JP pumps and Sundance pumps.  They are identical.  They even sound the same.  That is how it caught my attention.  From what I understand, the pecking order is Sundance, Jacuzzi Premium and then Sweetwater.  The Sundance spas will have all the newest and best bells and whistles and any technology advances which will eventually migrate down to JP and Sweetwater (example - titantium heater, bearingless jets).  Sundance was the first spa to use the titantium heater and offer a no fault warranty.  Hot Springs followed suit as well as some others now, yet Hot Springs uses the SS heater on the more price conscious Tiger River spas like Sundance does.  Chris, I agree regarding the Sundance filters...it is very easy to care for the one filter rather than multiple and the micro clean lasts me four months.

I personally think that the Jacuzzi Premium spas are caught in a middle area.  They are moving toward the Sundance/Sweetwater engineering, but still retaining some of the Jacuzzi features.  The move seem to be gradual (maybe too gradual).  Only time will tell.

Sundance/Jacuzzi Premium has the opportunity to do something very special here, offer three different lines at different price values with the same quality and commitment.  As a Sundance spa owner, I hope they do it right.

poolboy34:
I feel I must correct you on the heater info.  D-1 has been using a Laing fast-flo heater with a no-fault unconditional warranty for over 7 years now.  That same heater unit is now used by Watkins in thier caldera and Hot Springs line.  It is a Ankiloy heater.  Just an observation but, to me it seems like sundance is using the Jacuzzi premium line as a seperate enitity.  Much like Watkins does now with Hot Spring and caldera Spas.  Although it seems Watkins has been more successful with doing this.  maybe Sundance is marketing the Jacuzzi Premium line as their better line.  As in a "good, better, Best" philosophy.  Sweetwater is their "good" Line, Jacuzzi premium is their "better" line and Sundance is their "best Line".  Watkins does this with their Solana, Tiger River and Hot Spring lines.  Caldera does this too with the Highland, Paradise, Utopia and Aquatic Melodies series.  Dimension one does this as well with their @Home Hot Tub, Reflections, and bay Collection Lines.  It's basically a marketing strategy to hit all price points in the market.  Sundance might also still be trying to figure out what exactly it is they want to do with the Jacuzzi premium line.  Do they dress it up and make it on par with Sundance spas, or do they keep it where it is as a middle of the road priced value packed spa?  I agree with Wisoki though, when i went to our competitors booth at a recent home show i checked out their JPS spas, and the jet action was fairly weak compared to a caldera or D-1 Spa.  Now the Sundance Spas....those are on par with D-1 and Caldera for jetting action.  Sundance and D-1 have EXCELENT jet action, as I've had the opportunity to sit in both.  I haven't yet had a chance to wet test a caldera, as we have just started carrying them, and it's pool season, so the store is rockin........so I don't have time at the moment.  Just my 2 cents.

Jason,
Store manager for a D-1 and caldera Dealer

ndabunka:
Chris  - I agree that Sundance is the highest end version of the Jacuzzi brands spas. No debate there. I also agree that the jets are different. But in my J370, the power is "just fine thank you". However, the difference between Sundance jets and Jacuzzi Premium jets is FAR less than the next step down (Sweet Water) IMHO. The heater in the Jacuzzi is stainless but in this area that's not really an issue(I may change my mind about this in 5 years after the heater warranty runs out but for now a non-issue). The REAL difference is sometimes in the dealership. The Sundance guy here in Charlotte when I was shopping was TERRIBLE. More car salesman like than respectable. The Jacuzzi dealer on the other hand was EXTREMELY forthright with EVERYTHING. In my case, the price difference was NOT WORTH IT. The floor demo Cameo they wanted to unload was a "bottom line" price of $8,900. Then it changed to $8,200. It had no stereo system in it (he wanted another $1K for that). His bottom line price $9,200. I BOUGHT a Jacuzzi J370 WITH stereo for $6,500 for a price difference of $2,700. IMHO the Jacuzzi is a FAR better deal at those price differences. Of course being in sales myself I called personally to let the Sundance guy know that he had lost the deal and to communicate to him the reasons why so that he would actually have a chance when he went to speak to other buyers considering these two alternatives. His one and only response was... "If you will only call and cancel your Jacuzzi order I will let you have the Cameo for $7,100". I guess some salespeople JUST DON'T GET IT.  I'm certain that there are good Sundance dealers out there but that type of "salesmanship" appears to be almost common in the spa industry. IMHO, I'd rather have my local Jacuzzi dealer than the local Sundance dealer and would have actually considered paying MORE for the Jacuzzi if I had too... ;D

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