What's the Best Hot Tub

Author Topic: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51  (Read 25628 times)

gregtub

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Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« on: August 07, 2005, 07:26:58 pm »
Howdy,
I am debating between two hot tubs; the Hot Springs Vista and the CalSpa Atlantic CA51.

Are there any significant features that would make one better than the other?  Efficiency? Jets? Heater? Overall build qualty?  Company reputation?

Thanks,
Greg   8)

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Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« on: August 07, 2005, 07:26:58 pm »

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2005, 07:48:53 pm »

Seating Capacity: 5-6 Person
Dimensions: 93" x 93" x 39½"
Dry Weight: 900 lbs
Filled Weight: 4,648 lbs
Water Capacity: 450 gal
Control System: 5000 Smart Control Pack
Power Supply: 240V
* Heater: 5.5 kW XL Heat Exchanger
Lighting: 1 x 12V Large Light w/ Clear, Red, and Blue Lenses
Safety System: True Blue Safety Suction System
* Booster Pumps: 2 x 145-T Frame GE 6.0 BHP 240V Switchless Booster Pump
* Pumps: Eliminator Plus Wet Ends
Total Jets: 51
Jets: 3 x Storm Jets CXLW
 12 x Storm Jets CXW
 8 x Storm Jets SFW
 28 x Micro Flow Jets mfp
Jet Ring Trim: Standard Grey
Diverter Valves: 2 x 2" Comfort Diverter Valves
Air Control Valves: 4 x Easy-Flo Air Venturi
Pillows: 6 x Pillowsage Headrests
Plumbing: 2" Pipes
Filters: 150 ft² Bio-Clean Anti-Bacterial Filter
Intakes: 2
Bottom Drain: Standard
Shell: Quarite Acrylic
Shell Trim: Cal-Trim
Cabinet Frame: Pressure-Treated Wood
Cabinet Panel: Redwood
Bottom Tray: Standard
Cover: Standard
* Warranty: 10 x Years Structure
 5 x Years Finish
 5 x Years Parts
 5 x Years Labor

* International specifications may vary




6 adults
Dimensions 8' 4" x 7' 7" x 38"H/2.54m x 2.31m x .97m H
Water Capacity 500 gallons/1,893 litres
Weight 1,008 lbs./457 kg dry; 6,059 lbs./2,748 kg filled*
Spa Shell Colors
 •  Pearl  (photo)
 •  Spa Blue  (photo)
 •  Sand  (photo)
 •  Champagne Opal  (photo)  Corresponding Everwood® Cabinet
   Coastal Gray or Redwood
   Coastal Gray or Redwood
   Coastal Gray or Redwood
   Espresso

Light Extra large LED with Luminescence® 6-color System
Music Option SpAudio®-ready
Jets  (Total jets-47)

    Learn more about
    our exclusive jets... 1 Moto-Massage® DX Jet (2), 2 Soothing Seven® Jets,
2 JetStream® Jets, 2 Rotary Hydromassage Jets,
5 Directional Hydromassage Jets, 10 HydroStream™ Jets,
2 Rotary Precision® Jets, 22 Directional Precision® Jets
Water Feature BellaFontana™
Control System IQ 2020™ 230v/50 amp, 60 Hz
Includes G.F.C.I. protected subpanel
Heater No-Fault®, 4000w/230v
Jet Pump 1 Wavemaster® 9000; One-speed, 2.5 HP
Continuous Duty, 4.8 HP Breakdown Torque
Jet Pump 2 Wavemaster® 9200; Two-speed, 2.5 HP
Continuous Duty, 4.8 HP Breakdown Torque
Circulation Pump SilentFlo 5000®
Effective Filtration Area 325 sq. ft., top loading, 100% no-bypass filtration (Tri-X®)
Vinyl Cover 3.5" to 2.5" tapered, 2 lb. density foam core


In case you hadn't looked at both on the same time. :D

gregtub

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2005, 08:30:46 pm »
Quote
In case you hadn't looked at both on the same time. :D


Thanks for the specs, any opinions based on those specs, or from personal experience with either of these two products would be great!  8)

Thanks,
Greg

ebirrane

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2005, 10:42:35 am »
HS has a terrific reputation for waranty service.  CalSpa has a pretty bad reputation for warranty service.  There are some owners on here who have been pretty peeved at calspa.  You can also look the company up on ripoffreports.com.  This includes a member here (forget his handle... was it yorag?) who claimed bait-n-switch on the calspa warranty.

HS is one of the most energy efficient tubs in the marketplace, and I have heard nothing to even suggest CalSpa is one of its competitors in this arena.  This also implies, to me, an engineering advantage.

Make sure you wet test each tub.  Number of jets and quality of jets are vastly different things.

Here are a few calspa threads from this forum:
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1117758255;start=0
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1116855759;start=2
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1110992076;start=
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1110338817;start=
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1098488990;start=0
http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1122384508;start=

There is also a review section on this site.  Some of the cal spa tub reviews were recently removed because someone was artificially generating new, bogus reviews to change the "averages".

http://www.whatsthebest-hottub.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=wtb-hottub;action=display;num=1122036604;start=



-Ed (HS owner)
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 10:52:08 am by ebirrane »

wmccall

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2005, 11:01:44 am »
Quote

Thanks for the specs, any opinions based on those specs, or from personal experience with either of these two products would be great!  8)

Thanks,
Greg


One observation, when we bought, one attribute that weighed heavily on my wife's mind was open seating vs more restrictive molded seating.  This turns out to be another one of those cases where she might have been right. At least with our tub, I find myself frequently not sitting exactly in one seat but between several to get the massage I want.

This is very subjective and probably varies from one user to another.  Another casual observation, even though it is the least used seat, I like the leg jets in my lounger.

Another observation, my tub has two pumps, one a single speed, and the other a dual speed.  If I was buying again, I might factor that it. Some tubs that have two or 3 pumps they are both/all dual speed pumps. That is a feature I think I would like to have. Its nice to run pumps on low once in awhile.   In looking at the specs, the HS has one single speed and one dual. I couldn't tell by the specs about the Cal.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 11:06:53 am by wmccall »
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Spatech_tuo

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #5 on: August 08, 2005, 11:39:35 am »
Quote
Are there any significant features that would make one better than the other?  Efficiency? Jets? Heater? Overall build qualty?  Company reputation?

Thanks,
Greg   8)


Take a look at the review section on this site and others to find out what customers of each have to say and your decision may get simpler.
220, 221, whatever it takes!

spaman--

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #6 on: August 08, 2005, 12:25:22 pm »
Greg,

While I find the timing of this comparison incredibly ironic since 2 days ago I was toasting Chas on another site,but I will play along. Many of my best friends sell Hot Spring Spas.

First off there's no doubt that Hotspring builds a fine product, while on this site there has been created a doubt about Cal Spas, let me start by stating that I work for one of the largest spa (if not the largest spa dealers in the world) we sell exclusively Cal Spas. Remembering that the advertisement at the top of this forum does not say "Cal Spas" Know that reviews are baught and paid for. The 6 positive posts reflected in Ebiranes post were NOT bogus as I will hapilly refer all Phone numbers and adresses to the moderator. As I have asked some of my customers to post their experience (yes to boost the ratings) In fact the last post made by Robert Penetta of Colorado is from a man who works in this same building he posted his reveiw on this site and of course it was deleted. I understand Cal Spas does not pay for advertising here so why should we be alllowed to promote our product positively? There are 100's of thousands of Cal Spas out in the world and here you find maybe 4 people with bad experiences with primarily their local dealer. Now that being said, yes Cal spas has bad dealers, who may not do all they are expected to for their customers, the simple sad fact is ALL factories have this problem. Hotspring had it in Northern Arizona where a dealer who covered three towns did horrible things to customers. The Cals Spa Dealer in Phoenix AZ personally I would not by from him. What I am trying to say is that Cal Spas makes a sturdy product with full coverage therapy and a great warranty. Hotspring also makes a great product with exceptional warranty.You are dealing with biased people on this site. Poolandspa.com rate them both BEST OF CLASS. I do know that it really depends on the dealer wether or not you are a happy customer or not! HotSpring has pockets of bad dealers as well as Cal Spas does.


          Now The simple hard facts are that you do get MORE for your money Therapy and construction wise on the Cal Spas not because it is built inferior but because of profit margins who can explian the nearly $3000 price difference between the two? as far as energy efficiency goes I would like to see the magic componants that HotSpring has that Cal Spas does not! My answer is you decide based on research of therapy,comfort (wettest) reliability of your local dealer and cost. You will buy the tub that fits you the best without the aid of salespeople on this site. You are welcome to contact me directly with any Questions I will of course need to know what part of the country you live in ( perhaps the moderator can help me with that)

Gool Luck!-SpaMan~
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 12:33:40 pm by spaman_dot_com »
-SpaMan~

ebirrane

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #7 on: August 08, 2005, 02:32:41 pm »
Quote

let me start by stating that I work for one of the largest spa (if not the largest spa dealers in the world) we sell exclusively Cal Spas.


This was brought up before, and I have an honest question: Watkins (makers of hot springs, caldera, tiger river) is the largest spa manufacturer in the world.  I believe Chas has said something to the effect of Hot Springs is the most sold tub in the world.

Are you actually saying Cal Spas is the most sold tub in the world?  

Now, I have no way of know if you are the largest spa dealer in the entire world ??? but I'm pretty confident Cal Spas ain't the biggest gorilla in town.

The reason the number of tubs is important is to then look at % of customer dissastifaction. 12 angry people ain't much if the company makes 200,000 tubs a year.  It's a heck of a lot more if the company only manufactures 50,000 tubs a year!

Quote
The 6 positive posts reflected in Ebiranes post were NOT bogus as I will hapilly refer all Phone numbers and adresses to the moderator.


I don't doubt that you asked people to post reviews on this site to increase cal spa's review ratings.  

I was referring to the reviews which *were* removed by the moderator as being out-and-out bogus.  Asking real owners who are happy with their tubs to post a good rating is a much better strategy.  In fact, I love my HS and never posted a review of it here.  I think I will do so!

Quote

I understand Cal Spas does not pay for advertising here so why should we be alllowed to promote our product positively?


I can't address a conspiracy theory.

Quote
There are 100's of thousands of Cal Spas out in the world and here you find maybe 4 people with bad experiences with primarily their local dealer.


Then 150% of people with bad experiences have all communcally flocked to this board, and post under assumed names on other boards. 8)

Dino and yorag are the most verbal, but aren't the only ones. I suggest using the search feature. It was enlightening for me.

A search of ripoffreports for "cal spa" showed 22 entries:

http://www.ripoffreport.com/results.asp?q1=ALL&q2=&q3=&q4=&q5=cal+spa&q6=&q7=&SearchType=0&Entry=16&DateRange=6&hasPhoto=

A search for "watkins" produced 1 result (related to the spa company and not someone named "watkins")

http://www.ripoffreport.com/reports/ripoff80273.htm


Quote

Poolandspa.com rate them both BEST OF CLASS.


And you accuse *this* site of favoritism based on paid advertisements.  It's been discussed to death here (before you were a regular member, I think) that the pool and spa forums are complete based on advertising revenue.  *That's* a conspiracy theory I can easily believe from just having perused the ratings and watching them fluctuate over time...

I didn't mean to really beat up on Cal Spas, I would not own one, but you have every right to make a living.

Do your selling thing! It's nice to see cal spas really trying to regain some reputation, and good luck! The world could always use another well manufactured spa type. Just be careful with the hyperbole: you are the largest dealer in the world, and cal spas has only 4 people disastified with its product.  I believe neither.

-Ed
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 02:44:57 pm by ebirrane »

spaman--

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #8 on: August 08, 2005, 03:44:15 pm »
Well I see that you contradict yourself in saying dissatisfied customers based on percentage to spas sold! I also know that the rip-report further proves my theories as to how a dealer can screw up a deal as if you look all have been answered by the factory as soon as it was discovered.Everyone of those people on that site had an issue with a dealer, I never disputed that! If I go to Northern AZ I can find over 100 disatisfied consumers why? because the HotSpring Dealer screwed them! So neither argument put forth really talks about what the factory is actually doing. As I remember not toolong ago Hotspring had its drain hose problem and this is never mentioned on this site even though there were 100's of customers who complained! I now go to the simple fact as In Colorado and Minnesota we sell far more tubs than HotSpring< does that make them better? No it means we have a dealer who has made a difference in these two states to become the largest Spa DEALER in the world! HotSpring is a top Quality spa I said that. You were spoutin that they were more energy eficient and other facts you cant prove and you failed to answer the question as to what componants make it worth $3 K more?We offer alot in Cal Spas that arent even close to being matched in the HotSpring. The Reviews you speak of being "bogus" were removed and weere totally legite and have all the info to give to the moderater ( should he so desire to prove)I have a customer who works here in the building and I watched him post a positive review and it was deleted. So yea I call Bu(( SH^#!
« Last Edit: August 08, 2005, 03:46:32 pm by spaman_dot_com »
-SpaMan~

mxw128

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2005, 09:53:57 pm »
 I shopped both brands (and several others) and I would highly recommend wet testing.  The wet test may help decide for you.  I ended up with the HS (I got the Vanguard).  Personnaly it fit both me and my wife better (was more comfortable to us) and the sales folks were lower pressure.  Our Calspa delaer had the used car salesman approach (not to knock used car salesmen!... ;) )

Good luck!

Yorag

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2005, 02:13:15 pm »
My issues with Cal Spa go beyond the disservice I received from the dealer who went "belly up" before my warranty had expired. The dealer blatantly misrepresented the spa I purchased on the paperwork. Since the dealer was no longer in business, I was forced to deal directly with Cal Spa in So. Calif.

The CSR's there repeatedly attempted to invalidate my warranty over the phone by insinuating that I mistreated the spa, overheated it or exposed it to the sun excessively. All this without ever having seen it. At one point they suggested that I send the spa to them for evaluation at my expense. I found the CSR's to be rude, uneducated and extremely unprofessional. The turnover of personnel at Cal Spa seemed to be ongoing as well.

Every dealing I have had with Cal Spa directly has been horrendous. Whether it's something as simple as ordering parts or trying to obtain legitimate warranty repairs.
In my personal opinion, I just don't think Cal Spa builds a spa with longevity in mind. They use lower priced components which seem to fail quickly and they seem to be totally into the image. They spend a lot on fancy ads. and spas with TV's, stereos, etc., and seem to get a lot of publicity on some of the home improvement programs by donating things.

Bottom line is, if I were in the market to purchase a new spa, it definitely would not be a Cal Spa.

spaman--

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #11 on: August 09, 2005, 02:37:10 pm »
Bootom line is you were offered satisfaction and if you rufuse it thats your problem! The componantsthey use ar "TOP OF THE LINE" you have no clue what goes into a Cal Spa again your problem began with a bad dealer and that is sad , but the factory tried to help you even after the warranty has ran out , and I believe they even took care of your spa if I remember right! So wine all you want the factory took care of their responsibility!
-SpaMan~

Chris_H

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #12 on: August 09, 2005, 03:20:56 pm »
Quote
Bottom line is you were offered satisfaction and if you refuse it that’s your problem! The components they use are "TOP OF THE LINE" you have no clue what goes into a Cal Spa again your problem began with a bad dealer and that is sad , but the factory tried to help you even after the warranty has ran out , and I believe they even took care of your spa if I remember right! So wine all you want the factory took care of their responsibility!


Yorag’s problem is not an isolated incident and the regulars know this is not an isolated incident.  Cal has an extremely poor reputation and it was not just caused by poor dealers.  I believe the manufacturer has a lot to do with their poor reputation.

Hotspring’s reputation really is second to none is customer satisfaction.  

I had an additional two paragraphs typed out about my local Cal dealer, but decided not to write about my experience ‘shopping’ for a Cal Spa if anyone wants to know my experience feel free to PM me.

wmccall

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #13 on: August 09, 2005, 03:42:14 pm »
Quote
Greg,

" Know that reviews are baught and paid for.



You know that is a load of crap.  You also know that lately I have been doing most of the moderation here and you should know I have no bias for or against Cal.  You also know that I don't look through the reviews unless I get a complaint or stumble across something.  Most of the reviews deleted were blatently bogus or the cases you felt obligated to argue with people in the review section.

Recenty I deleted a bunch that, this time, appeared not all to come from the same IP addresses in Colorado (4 at one time) but had bogus email addresses. (You did't tell me you were contacting people to fluff up the ratings. Most people would not blame me for being suspicious of the Cal reviews, especially when they show up at 10x the frequency we normally see.  You remember in the discussion that deleting them because they used a bogus email address may not be a good enough reason to delete, so I'll apologize for that one instance.

All that said, I still get annoyed at your less than mature actions in this regard and remind you criticizing the administration of this forum is against the user agreement you agreed to.  I will apologize again if you don't like the way I've done things, and remind you the little X at the top right of your browser will clear up the problem.[
« Last Edit: August 09, 2005, 03:43:05 pm by wmccall »
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Spatech_tuo

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2005, 04:31:37 pm »
Quote
 I will apologize again if you don't like the way I've done things, and remind you the little X at the top right of your browser will clear up the problem.[


I tried that but it only closed my window!
220, 221, whatever it takes!

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Re: Hot Springs Vista Vs. CalSpa Atlantic CA51
« Reply #14 on: August 09, 2005, 04:31:37 pm »

 

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