Hot Tub Forum

Original => Hot Tub Forum => Topic started by: tcbc on March 18, 2007, 12:53:23 pm

Title: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 18, 2007, 12:53:23 pm
I have been looking at spas for a while now and I have narrowed my choices to 3 units, both locally sold and serviced. All units are new 2006 models. The first is a Jacuzzi J-385 for $8620, the second is a Sundance Altamar for $8940. I am also considering the Sundance Majesta without lounger for $8440. I have been told Jacuzzi is the sister company to Sundance so both tubs would seem to be similar in quality. The Jacuzzi is a bigger tub with a few more bells and whistles. I think the customer service would be a little better with the Sundance and it is loaded with options as well. All three models are out the door prices and include stereos w/ floating remotes, steps, covers, start up chemicals and delivery and setup. Any help or comments would be appreciated. I feel like the price is right on all 3 models.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Chad on March 18, 2007, 03:31:18 pm
Tcby,

Welcome.
You can't go wrong with any of those tubs. I can't comment to much about the prices of the Sundance Spas but from what I've seen/heard those prices seem rather fair. I own a '06 J-345 and know that my dealer here in the STL sells the J-385 at a similar price as to the one you're being quoted on. I would personally let the wet test and comfortability of the dealer be the deciding factors.
Btw, I've had my 345 for close to 6 months and absolutely love it. No problems whatsoever. It's a great tub!
Btw2, Jacuzzi/Sundance are manufactured in the same plant in Chino, CA. FYI and FWIW it was the first ISO 9001 certified spa manufacturing plant in the world. They have a very similar make-up. Both lines are among the leaders in the industry.
You've obviously done some pretty good research. One thing that is commonly overlooked is their fully enclosed ABS pan. It was one of the things that help me narrow down my search. Good work and let us know which you choose.

Chad

Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: knowsabit on March 18, 2007, 04:50:06 pm
Quote
I have been looking at spas for a while now and I have narrowed my choices to 3 units, both locally sold and serviced. All units are new 2006 models. The first is a Jacuzzi J-385 for $8620, the second is a Sundance Altamar for $8940. I am also considering the Sundance Majesta without lounger for $8440. I have been told Jacuzzi is the sister company to Sundance so both tubs would seem to be similar in quality. The Jacuzzi is a bigger tub with a few more bells and whistles. I think the customer service would be a little better with the Sundance and it is loaded with options as well. All three models are out the door prices and include stereos w/ floating remotes, steps, covers, start up chemicals and delivery and setup. Any help or comments would be appreciated. I feel like the price is right on all 3 models.

You have to wet test them.  I'm putting my money on Sundance there.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: D.P. Roberts on March 18, 2007, 06:22:51 pm
FWIW, my local dealer (Ohio) sells the Majesta with cover & delivery for $9000.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 18, 2007, 06:42:41 pm
Thank you all for the information. I am going to base my decision on a wet test.

Chad,

Does the Jacuzzi brand have the fully enclosed ABS pan?
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 18, 2007, 06:44:52 pm
D.P.,

Does your local dealer include the stereo for that $9000 price? That makes me feel good about the price I am being quoted.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: D.P. Roberts on March 19, 2007, 12:15:03 am
Quote
D.P.,

Does your local dealer include the stereo for that $9000 price? That makes me feel good about the price I am being quoted.

Sorry, I don't remember if that included a stereo or not  - I wasn't really looking at that particular model, I was writing down prices just for comparison purposes. I would assume that it didn't, as this was their printed "sale price" for that particular tub.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: hottubdan on March 19, 2007, 02:15:23 am
Jacuzzi has the pan.  Sundance does not.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Chad on March 19, 2007, 05:29:30 am
Quote


Chad,

Does the Jacuzzi brand have the fully enclosed ABS pan?

Yes sir.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Micah on March 19, 2007, 01:13:56 pm
TCBC,
It seems that you are looking at very different spas.  The altimar is a 7' spa with a lounger.  The J-385 is the biggest spa Jacuzi makes at 94" (almost a full 8') If you want to go apples for apples you need to look at the J-335 or my favorite spa the new 2007 J-355.  While you are at the Jacuzzi dealer you should ask to try the new J-465.  It is the redesigned verison of the 06 J-385.  It has a new type of jet that is incredible.  Since Jacuzzi is having their 2007 Model Introduction Sale you can get a great price on the new 2007 models.  
Let us know how it goes.
Micah
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on March 20, 2007, 05:48:45 pm
Quote
I have been looking at spas for a while now and I have narrowed my choices to 3 units, both locally sold and serviced. All units are new 2006 models. The first is a Jacuzzi J-385 for $8620, the second is a Sundance Altamar for $8940. I am also considering the Sundance Majesta without lounger for $8440. I have been told Jacuzzi is the sister company to Sundance so both tubs would seem to be similar in quality. The Jacuzzi is a bigger tub with a few more bells and whistles. I think the customer service would be a little better with the Sundance and it is loaded with options as well. All three models are out the door prices and include stereos w/ floating remotes, steps, covers, start up chemicals and delivery and setup. Any help or comments would be appreciated. I feel like the price is right on all 3 models.


 For the price I would take the J- 385 but thats me.  like the other poster stated check out the J-355 if your looking at the Altimar and the J-345 in comparison to the majesta. The leg jets in the new J-355 feel great.   Also as stated check out the J-465 very nice spa spendy but nice I have sold 3 in the last 4 weeks
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 21, 2007, 02:55:09 pm
Thanks Jim. I just got a call from my Jacuzzi dealer offering a J 470 for $8680 with the stereo. Seems like a good deal to me and worth looking into. Anybody familiar with the 470?
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on March 21, 2007, 03:05:38 pm
 That spa is running about 11,000 + stereo in these parts.


 Have you had a chance to wet test yet??    If so I would be all over it.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 21, 2007, 03:14:31 pm
I'm going in today to look, there was a little snafu with the 385 so he is offering this deal to me. Seems too good to be true
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Reese on March 21, 2007, 03:16:23 pm
Quote
...I just got a call from my Jacuzzi dealer offering a J 470 for $8680 with the stereo...
That's a lot more tub, for the same money you were talking about in your original post.  Don't miss that one!
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: hottubdan on March 21, 2007, 05:33:06 pm
Quote
Thanks Jim. I just got a call from my Jacuzzi dealer offering a J 470 for $8680 with the stereo. Seems like a good deal to me and worth looking into. Anybody familiar with the 470?

Sounds like a desperate dealer cutting price to get the deal.  

My only concern is does he have enough margin to be there for you in the future.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 21, 2007, 09:03:25 pm
Well I have hit a little snag. I had already placed a deposit on the Majesta yesterday and now the dealer is giving me a hard time about refunding my money. At this point I don't even want to consider buying a tub friom him even though he sweetened the deal by offering a loaded Optima spa for 900 more. This is liable to get a little messy, there is a lot of competition between these two dealers with the Sundance dealer having basically held a monopoly on the market until 3-1/2 years ago. Does anybody know what recourse I have in getting a refund of my deposit?
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Wisoki on March 21, 2007, 10:37:42 pm
Buy the Sundance. The Jacuzzi dealer is going out of business. There is no way any dealership can sustain itself selling that spa at that price. At least your sundance dealer has been around a while and aparently knows how to run a business. As for the refundability of deposits, I am 100% against. Once you have made a decision on a spa and given a deposit you have the legal three day right of recision to get your money back. Beyond that, you made a decision, a good one I might add, so if it's past the 3 days, the dealer is entitled to performance on the contract or if he is willing merely keep the deposit and let you out of the contract.

Quote
Thanks Jim. I just got a call from my Jacuzzi dealer offering a J 470 for $8680 with the stereo. Seems like a good deal to me and worth looking into. Anybody familiar with the 470?
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: hottubdan on March 22, 2007, 12:41:55 am
Actually you have three day recission only on contracts written away from showroom such as special events or homes.  At least in California.

Read your contract.  If there is a cancellation clause then you agreed to whatever it says.

On the other hand if you paid with credit card, contest with your credit card company.  My experience is the credit card companies almost always side with the consumer.

Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Jacuzzi Jim on March 22, 2007, 12:59:47 pm
Quote
Buy the Sundance. The Jacuzzi dealer is going out of business. There is no way any dealership can sustain itself selling that spa at that price. At least your sundance dealer has been around a while and aparently knows how to run a business. As for the refundability of deposits, I am 100% against. Once you have made a decision on a spa and given a deposit you have the legal three day right of recision to get your money back. Beyond that, you made a decision, a good one I might add, so if it's past the 3 days, the dealer is entitled to performance on the contract or if he is willing merely keep the deposit and let you out of the contract.



 What makes you think he sells all his spas at a discount?  The 385 is no longer available and his is the same price we had to blow ours out, The 470 maybe a early 06 model that he wants to move also. I know what the cost of the spa is and while he is'nt getting rich at that price hes alright.
  As far as deposits go we refund deposits unless the spa is special order then we charge a restocking fee unless the customer is a total butthead about it, then we will just give the money back and say see ya hope it work out for you.  We may have 3 or 4 a year that flip for what ever reason, most of the time its buyers remorse at a show or fair. Never to the competitor that I can remember.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: drewstar on March 22, 2007, 01:06:53 pm
Quote

On the other hand if you paid with credit card, contest with your credit card company.  My experience is the credit card companies almost always side with the consumer.


That hasn't been my limited expereince.  :-[


How much of a deposit are we talking? Worse case senario and you loose the deposit, is the deal on the Jacuzzi THAT much better to still make it worth while?

Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Reese on March 22, 2007, 01:24:12 pm
Quote
... I had already placed a deposit on the Majesta yesterday and now the dealer is giving me a hard time about refunding my money. At this point I don't even want to consider buying a tub friom him even though he sweetened the deal by offering a loaded Optima spa for 900 more...
How much was the deposit?  When you put it down, what was the understanding regarding refund?  What does the contract show?

It sounds like this has all happened fairly recently.  If the deposit was on an in-stock tub, it would seem fair that the dealer get something for his time, and keeping the item out of circulation for a few days, potentially missing a chance to sell it to someone else.  He may be hanging tough on the deposit for now in hopes of still getting the sale, or feel that you used his deal to leverage a better price at the Jacuzzi dealer.  Perhaps if you make it clear that you have decided on something else, but would be willing to pay something for his trouble, just not the whole deposit, this can still be worked out amicably.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 22, 2007, 02:23:29 pm
Thanks for the info, the deposit is 1/2 the selling price of $8490. He is definitely fighting and leveraging me to keep the sale but this has become a matter of principle to me now. I realize the buyers remorse law will probably not hold in this case due to the fact i purchased the spa in his showroom. I am a very unhappy customer now and have vey little faith in his customer service. The one thing I feel might possibly be in my favor is the fact that my wife's name is on the purchase agreement and she did not sign the agreement. The agreement states no refunds on deposits in the fine print but the dealer never pointed this out to us. This has just happened within the last few days and our relationship has deteriorated to the point of no return. i guess I can cave and buy the tub, it is still a good product but i hate to strike a deal with this pompous dealer. I will consider the possibility of some sort of settlement.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 22, 2007, 02:25:16 pm
I might also add that my wife is the one that cut the check and was not aware of the non refundable deposit
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: drewstar on March 22, 2007, 02:32:45 pm
I can see him being tight on the refund. He's loosing a big sale.   IF this doesn't go you way, don't worry, both tubs are good.  One just seesm to be a once in lifetime deal? Do you loose sleep over it? you can't.

However,  Did you tell the dealer the reason you were backing out?  (if he knows you're going to the competition, I can see him digging in his heals).

Do you have any friends who are attorneys? I'm not saying take em to court yet, but getting some sound legal advice is good. A letter from an attorney asking on your behalf to refund the $$ sometimes works.

If this isn't a special order tub, I think you have a good shot at getting most of your money back. IT just make take a while. If the dealer knows you are not going to buy this tub and fully committed to getting your deposit back (or the lions share of it at least). He may give in.


Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 22, 2007, 02:42:08 pm
I'm actually in the process of contacting attorneys for a little advise. I really don't want to take him to court yet, but I might if I have too. I don't think his case will hold any water in a court of law, but he could drag it on for a long time if he wanted to go that route. I never came out and told him the reason for backing out, but I think he suspects it. The wierd thing is I was pretty happy about my deal until the J-470 offer was on the table. The jacuzzi dealer is cutting this special deal to me based on the original problems bringing in the J-385. He will be requesting compensation from Jacuzzi for their mistake.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Reese on March 22, 2007, 02:48:20 pm
You were certain enough of your decision to put 1/2 down, and the smokin' deal on the 470 was late to the party. It sounds like the Sundance dealer is more established, and your original post stated that you thought his service would be a little better.  The Jacuzzi dealer's problem getting right tub, expecting factory support to get the deal, and the 470 price all sound a little fishy to me, but I'm not a dealer.

The wife's signature tactic seems kind of hollow to me... even though she didn't sign the purchase agreement, she did sign the check, so I would expect a court to consider that intent to enter into the agreement.  Reading and understanding what your were commiting to was something that needed to be addressed before finalizing the deal.  Since you haven't taken delivery, you can probably get out of this for less than the full deposit, but it may require some legal costs and payment of some damages to the dealer for time and lost opportunity.  Given the documentation, the dealer appears to hold the upper hand, so I would try to patch things up, admit your mistake in committing too soon, and ask politely to work out a fair deal to cancel the sale because you really don't want the tub, and the dealer shouldn't want an unhappy customer.  To me, a couple hundred dollars would seem fair.  What do you dealers think?

If that doesn't work, the other route would be to try to get the dealer to match the 470 price on the comparable Sundance model.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 22, 2007, 02:56:05 pm
That's exactly the direction I am leaning. I take full responsibility for my error in judgement. I never particularly cared for this dealer, they were just a proven establishment in this town. I think that some good healthy competition has ruffled his feathers and he has now finally started offering a fair price for his product. I feel he has taken advantage of the people around here for a while since he was the only game in town. His attitude and unwillingness to even try and work out some sort of compromise has soured me to him.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: drewstar on March 22, 2007, 03:00:32 pm
Claim you're a raging alcholic and you signed the deal while drunk.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: East_TX_Spa on March 22, 2007, 04:07:09 pm
Quote
To me, a couple hundred dollars would seem fair.  What do you dealers think?

The dealer is being a pudlin' about the whole thing.  The customer has a right to buy where he wants.  If the spa hasn't been delivered, then he's not out any money.

Many years ago, a lady came in and bought a HS Landmark from me.  Gave me a check for $9000.  Two days later her husband called and said that he was going to have to delay the delivery 2 weeks in order to pour concrete and he wanted his check back.  I said "no problem", but I had my suspicions as a traveling spa show had set up just down the road the day before.

When his wife, bless her heart, came to pick up the check, I asked her if it was true about the concrete.  She lowered her eyes, hemmed and hawed, and said that Albert decided to buy one of those roadside spas with a gazebo attached for $5000.

I told her I appreciated her honesty, but that her husband was a liar and not the type of person we wanted to do business with.  She agreed that he was.

I see her from time to time and she really misses not having gotten the spa SHE wanted.  The one they bought crapped out after a couple of years and they sold it for $500 to his brother.  Oh well.

If someone wants their money back, we give it to them.

Terminator
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: hottubdan on March 22, 2007, 04:54:11 pm
If you are going to sue, Small Claims would be the way to go in CA.

You might try to contact Sundance.  If this dealer is what you say he is, they would want to know. :)
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Wisoki on March 22, 2007, 05:09:46 pm
Now I'm very currious, what mistake did Jacuzzi make? All dealers were aware the 385 would be out of production for the 2007 product year in November. I's easy to deflect blame to the manufacturer, since the customer has know way of knowing where the truth lies. I sell Jacuzzi, and I'm saying buy the Sundance! Figure in the cost of freight, delivery, cover lifter, ozone, and chemical kit, this guy is taking a bath on the 480 sale bit it an 06 or an 07. That, to me screams of ZERO integrity. Buy the Sundance.

Quote
I'm actually in the process of contacting attorneys for a little advise. I really don't want to take him to court yet, but I might if I have too. I don't think his case will hold any water in a court of law, but he could drag it on for a long time if he wanted to go that route. I never came out and told him the reason for backing out, but I think he suspects it. The wierd thing is I was pretty happy about my deal until the J-470 offer was on the table. The jacuzzi dealer is cutting this special deal to me based on the original problems bringing in the J-385. He will be requesting compensation from Jacuzzi for their mistake.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: tcbc on March 22, 2007, 09:14:12 pm
All's wells that ends well I guess. I sat down and talked again to the Sundance dealer. We put our differences aside and I went with one of his tubs. I feel he cut me a heck of a deal and I upgraded my contract to a fully loaded Optima for 900 bucks. He said he fought for my business, he was simply fighting to keep it. I am happy this is resolved, I am so looking forward to soaking in my new tub in about a week and a half!! Thanks all for the help, I appreciate it. Not real happy with the buying experience but I think ownership will be 1000% better!
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: hottubdan on March 22, 2007, 09:49:37 pm
Congrats on the resolution.

Make sure you bury the hatchet.  You have a relationship with the dealer from now until... :o

Now the count down to delivery begins.
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: drewstar on March 23, 2007, 09:07:48 am
Quote
All's wells that ends well I guess. I sat down and talked again to the Sundance dealer. We put our differences aside and I went with one of his tubs. I feel he cut me a heck of a deal and I upgraded my contract to a fully loaded Optima for 900 bucks. He said he fought for my business, he was simply fighting to keep it. I am happy this is resolved, I am so looking forward to soaking in my new tub in about a week and a half!! Thanks all for the help, I appreciate it. Not real happy with the buying experience but I think ownership will be 1000% better!

 :D
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Skellman on March 23, 2007, 09:40:00 am
 ;DCongrats! It's cool when adults act like adults and all works out for everyone. I think you're correct when you say the ownership will be a positive experience.
I am curious to hear how the aftermarket service will be for you. Keep us posted.
Skellman
Title: Re: Jacuzzi vs. Sundance
Post by: Reese on March 23, 2007, 02:57:48 pm
Quote
All's wells that ends well...
Sounds like a good, and fair, resolution. :)